Winters are coming. Need some help!

[///M///]

So here is the scenario. I plan to use my M as a daily driver for as long as the weather permits. I have always had a second car and still do. I use that more as a beater car. It gets used more during winters when there is salt or snow on the road. I don't believe in storing the M for the winter and like to drive it through the winter when there is no snow or salt on the roads. Being near Philly we don't nearly get as much snow and as often as further up north and that allows for plenty of nice, non-snow salt days to drive th M.

So that brings me to my question, Do I really need the hardcore snow tires for this kind of driving? The car came with the Michelic PSS which are extreme summer performance tires so my guess is that anything below 40F they are out. So what should I get? Running pure winter tires on dry roads makes no sense. What are my options?

Thanks.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by dsm918

So here is the scenario. I plan to use my M as a daily driver for as long as the weather permits. I have always had a second car and still do. I use that more as a beater car. It gets used more during winters when there is salt or snow on the road. I don't believe in storing the M for the winter and like to drive it through the winter when there is no snow or salt on the roads. Being near Philly we don't nearly get as much snow and as often as further up north and that allows for plenty of nice, non-snow salt days to drive th M.

So that brings me to my question, Do I really need the hardcore snow tires for this kind of driving? The car came with the Michelic PSS which are extreme summer performance tires so my guess is that anything below 40F they are out. So what should I get? Running pure winter tires on dry roads makes no sense. What are my options?

Your limit is not the ambient temps (PSS will not fall apart at 39F), it's the summer tire's inability to generate any traction over snow and ice.
If you foresee any need to drive over snow/ice, you need a winter set of wheels and tires.

Since you already have a set of summer tires, getting shitty compromise all-season tires is a waste of money. Get a set of road-friendly performance winter tires on a set of dedicated wheels, and you will be unstoppable (short of enough snow to turn front airdam becoming into a snow plow).

I had LM-25 Blizzak's (on another bimmer) and they were great on dry ice as well as unplowed frozen roads here in Northern NJ. As well as slushy everything else in between.

Plenty of other choices here:
https://www.tirerack.com/snow/Winter...&performance=W

a

[///M///]

Originally Posted by afadeev

Your limit is not the ambient temps (PSS will not fall apart at 39F), it's the summer tire's inability to generate any traction over snow and ice.
If you foresee any need to drive over snow/ice, you need a winter set of wheels and tires.

Since you already have a set of summer tires, getting shitty compromise all-season tires is a waste of money. Get a set of road-friendly performance winter tires on a set of dedicated wheels, and you will be unstoppable (short of enough snow to turn front airdam becoming into a snow plow).

I had LM-25 Blizzak's (on another bimmer) and they were great on dry ice as well as unplowed frozen roads here in Northern NJ. As well as slushy everything else in between.

Plenty of other choices here:
https://www.tirerack.com/snow/Winter...&performance=W

a

afadeev Thanks. What if I don't plan to drive in snow or ice at all? I am pretty sure I will never do that. Have the trusty beater for that.

[sh55]

I know you already responded to, but seriously the blizzaks are great.

If you're never going to drive in snow or ice during the winter, then you can stick with the PSS in my opinion.




For the watch....

[RKAM3]

You will have an issue in rain and cold with PSS as well. A mid corner bump in the dry cold temps will also be enough to wake you up, but you can get by in the dry if you're aware.

[MrSmileyDC]

Summer tires aren't meant to be driven in cold weather due to the rubber compound. Either get all seasons or winter performance tires. You can probably find some 513m or 437m wheels on here.

Personally, I will drive mine year round and plan to get the 640m setup from BMW.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by dsm918

afadeev Thanks. What if I don't plan to drive in snow or ice at all? I am pretty sure I will never do that. Have the trusty beater for that.

The problem with "not planning" to drive on snow/ice is that the only way you can guarantee that outcome is if you park the car for good Dec-Mar. Otherwise, you never know when icy stuff may start falling down from the sky on your way home from somewhere.

BTDT this spring - I took out my newly delivered M3 (on PSS's) for a drive on a dry February day, and it started snowing while we sat in the restaurant. I tip-toed home, and slide down our driveway past the entrance to the garage. Luckily, I have extra space there (else I would have parked the car at the train station). Fishtailed my way into the garage, and parked it there until temps were well in to the 50s. Just ordered a set of winter rubbers for the upcoming winter season.

For me, having a second set of performance winter tires is a no-brainer: they save wear on your performance summer rubber, and will save your butt if the weather turns nasty with little warning.

Originally Posted by RKAM3

You will have an issue in rain and cold with PSS as well. A mid corner bump in the dry cold temps will also be enough to wake you up, but you can get by in the dry if you're aware.

This is simply NOT true.
PSS's are fantastic in the rain, cold or hot (unless you are down to wear bars).
They are some of the best rain tires on the market.

And nothing drastic happens to them when temps drop below 40F or below freezing. Grip decreases, marginally, but is still there.

It's snow and ice that render PSS's useless.

a

[RKAM3]

1. Friction drops with the temps.
2. Friction drops when you add lubrication between the tire and pavement. It's true, even in the summer!
3. Friction drops more with cold temps + lubrication.

Wear down to the bars affects hydroplaning resistance not the friction between the tire and the pavement, well not directly. A tire worn down that far also suffers from the hardening of the compound which is a byproduct of heat cycling. That effect is not unlike a tire exposed to freezing temps (#3). So in a sense you're right, just not for the reasons you thought.

[tareemaa]

Have you ever chewed gum and then drank a cold drink, did you notice how the gum become stone hard until it's warmed again? Same happens to your summers, even on dry pavement your traction will be compromised. In my early years of driving rwd cars I tried to get by with all seasons, it sucked. Get a dedicated winter set and you'll be money. I've driven my M3 through very heavy Chicago snow storms no problem. People in range rovers would look at me like wtf?!

[m3freak86]

Ricky,

I am basically just going to reiterate what others have said here. Winter tires aren't just for plowing through snow. They are for temps below 40. Summer rubber reacts differently in colder weather than warmer weather (see the great gum example above me). While you may be able to get away with running the PSS's in the colder, dry weather, if you are ever in a situation where you have to brake hard in 20 degrees (with no salt or snow on the ground), you'll find it much harder for the car to stop when you want it to. But if you just go out for a cruise (nothing spirited), you won't notice a difference.

Having a dedicated set of winter tires/wheels is ALWAYS a must for me. Especially if it's the only car. However, you have a beater so I wouldn't sweat it too much. If you don't want a set of dedicated winter tires and looking for good all seasons that do very well in the snow, check out the Continental DWS's. Great all season tire. The Michelin A/S 3's are great as well (but aren't great in the snow). They rock in the warmer weather though. But we are comparing tires in the same price range here. So if you have a separate set, get winter tires. No need to have a summer set and an all season tire set.

[///M///]

Originally Posted by m3freak86

Ricky,

I am basically just going to reiterate what others have said here. Winter tires aren't just for plowing through snow. They are for temps below 40. Summer rubber reacts differently in colder weather than warmer weather (see the great gum example above me). While you may be able to get away with running the PSS's in the colder, dry weather, if you are ever in a situation where you have to brake hard in 20 degrees (with no salt or snow on the ground), you'll find it much harder for the car to stop when you want it to. But if you just go out for a cruise (nothing spirited), you won't notice a difference.

Having a dedicated set of winter tires/wheels is ALWAYS a must for me. Especially if it's the only car. However, you have a beater so I wouldn't sweat it too much. If you don't want a set of dedicated winter tires and looking for good all seasons that do very well in the snow, check out the Continental DWS's. Great all season tire. The Michelin A/S 3's are great as well (but aren't great in the snow). They rock in the warmer weather though. But we are comparing tires in the same price range here. So if you have a separate set, get winter tires. No need to have a summer set and an all season tire set.

Thanks Chris. Makes total sense. I think I have my answer.

Thanks everyone.

[SROC3]

Ask John Snow........he may know something (even if they say he "knows nothing")...sorry....GOT reference. Couldn't help it....

Beware the Whitewalkers.

[MrSmileyDC]

I got quoted $2756 plus shipping for the 640m setup with winter tires and tpms.