Video: DragTimes - M3 ZCP Vs. AR QV

[mirob]

Dig and roll races.

Video has crappy quality; nevertheless, enjoy!

[PshhhhhMW]

All races had the guy in the alfa do the countdown giving him at least a one second advantage each time specially with the poor reaction time from the bimmer driver lol..

[CanAutM3]

I saw that video on YouTubes a few days ago. I did not bother posting because it is completely pointless, the Alfa gets a jump on the M3 in every race. The races are not representative.

That being said, the Alfa is the faster car in a straight line, there is no disputing this. Albeit not by as much as what is shown in the video.

[mcc3456]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I saw that video on YouTubes a few days ago. I did not bother posting because it is completely pointless, the Alfa gets a jump on the M3 in every race. The races are not representative.

That being said, the Alfa is the faster car in a straight line, there is no disputing this. Albeit not by as much as what is shown in the video.

Agreed. The Alfa is quicker, partly because it develops more power, but also because the rear diff puts the power to the ground better. Been trying to explain that but people just default to, because he has an Alfa now, he is a fan boy and hates the M3. Nothing could be further from the truth. I loved my M3, and was seriously sad when I decided to sell it. Thought long and hard about keeping both cars, but just seemed silly given they are in the same category.

IMHO, which you obviously don't care about, the M3 is a better track oriented car, but the Quadrifoglio is without a doubt in my mind (and many car journalists) a better road car, but primarily because it is set up better for the road. It is fast, great handling, but most interestingly more compliant riding. The biggest draw for me was that it was different. Had the M3 for 2 years of blissful (overall) ownership, but that is pretty much the extent of my attention span for a car as I just enjoy trying new things. With that said, I have never "downgraded" when swapping rides. There always has to be some X factor that makes the new vehicle more interesting than the old ride.

You guys are passionate about your M3s, and I get that, but you can't think there are not good and in some ways better alternatives.

If I was primarily tracking a car, I'd get an M3 again too, but I am not any longer, so the Alfa is more interesting to me for my own personal reasons. I would never imply the M3 sucks, as many of you guys have about the Alfa. It saddens me that you guys are not open to trying and respecting other vehicles for what they are, even if you still prefer what you have.

Lastly, even if I keep my Alfa longer-term than my normal 2 years, I may still search for good low mileage M4 convertible for Summer use. I always like to have a convertible option in the stable to thoroughly enjoy the short New England Summer weather on nice drives to Cape Cod.

Though I doubt any of the above will resonate with you all, but hope you understand that I don't have any hard feelings despite the anti-Alfa hatred on these M3 vs Alfa threads. They are entertaining most of the time. Be well.

P.S. that Alfa really whooped that ZCPs ass!

[HPIA4v2]

Originally Posted by PshhhhhMW

All races had the guy in the alfa do the countdown giving him at least a one second advantage each time specially with the poor reaction time from the bimmer driver lol..

What, another day in ether-world and yet another fake news

[DS_BMW]

I like the Alfa, to bad residual is 45% Ugh.

[HPIA4v2]

Originally Posted by DS_BMW

I like the Alfa, to bad residual is 45% Ugh.

LOL, that's M2 territory bro

[THEROK]

The E9X and especially so the F8X are built to withstand the rigors of the most enthusiastic hobbyist track rat needs. No limp mode, no cooling issues, no little niggles that keep you away from putting in recurring laps under any condition. Just look at what the M engineers did - they put in a ton of work to deliver the goods.

Everything else in its class will simply end up limping including the Alfa. They're simply not engineered to handle the rigors of multi-lap adventures. For regular street use, pick the one that you think looks, feels and sounds best. In my world, M4 first and then maybe the C63S 2nd.

I myself simply don't trust FIAT engineering. It's a bit of a veneer brand this Alfa. Subjectively, it looks like an angry bird. I park next to one at the gym sometimes and it's a bit of an aesthetic mess.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by mcc3456

Agreed...

Not sure why you a directing this response at me, but...

Originally Posted by mcc3456

IMHO, which you obviously don't care about, but the Quadrifoglio is without a doubt in my mind (and many car journalists) a better road car, but primarily because it is set up better for the road. It is fast, great handling, but most interestingly more compliant riding.

I have never argued to the contrary.

Originally Posted by mcc3456

...the M3 is a better track oriented car... If I was primarily tracking a car, I'd get an M3

And that is why I got an M4, for the dual use. I do 16~20 track days per year.

Originally Posted by mcc3456

...he is a fan boy...

I've called you a fanboy more than once because many of your comments, devoid of any sound rational or objectivity, fit the fanboy definition to a tee.

TOP DEFINITION
Fanboy
An extreme fan or follower of a particular medium or concept, whether it be sports, television, film directors, video games (the most common usage), etc.

Known for a complete lack of objectivity in relation to their preferred focus. Usually argue with circular logic that they refuse to acknowledge. Arguments or debates with such are usually futile. Every flaw is spun into semi-virtues and everything else, blown to comedic, complimentary proportions.

Known for using the phrase "Object of affection = Best Ever" However, while people only really say that as hyperbole, fanboys truly believe it.

Troll the internet to spread the gospel.

Insult/chastise others for using public forums to express an objective opinion, no matter how constructive or, respectful it may be. (Go ahead and admit that it's a good game/movie/etc. This fact and anything else will be promptly ignored in favor of cherry picking the negative, and beating you over the head with it.

Tend to resort to petty annoyance replies when backed against the wall. Usually grammar attacks and non-replies.

[AllForTheCash]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

N
I've called you a fanboy more than once because many of your comments, devoid of any sound rational or objectivity, fit the fanboy definition to a tee.

well said.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by mcc3456

Though I doubt any of the above will resonate with you all, but hope you understand that I don't have any hard feelings despite the anti-Alfa hatred on these M3 vs Alfa threads. They are entertaining most of the time. Be well.

P.S. that Alfa really whooped that ZCPs ass!

I agree with some of your post. Brand loyalty is pointless to me. The Alpha out performs the M3/4 in many ways, but it seems like the inclusion of that last jab is more self-serving than friendly ball busting, it doesn't come off as good natured imho. It certainly doesn't hurt my feelings that there are faster cars out there, that's just a reality. In fact I welcome it. The better the competition, the more options I will have when time comes to replace my current car. Hell, the ZL1 and Z06 puts both the Alpha and M3/4 to shame in the performance game! Nonetheless, I can't help but feel like your intention is to pick yourself up at other's expense rather than have an insightful discussion with fellow car enthusiasts.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by jmg

I agree with some of your post. Brand loyalty is pointless to me. The Alpha out performs the M3/4 in many ways, but it seems like the inclusion of that last jab is more self-serving than friendly ball busting, it doesn't come off as good natured imho. It certainly doesn't hurt my feelings that there are faster cars out there, that's just a reality. In fact I welcome it. The better the competition, the more options I will have when time comes to replace my current car. Hell, the ZL1 and Z06 puts both the Alpha and M3/4 to shame in the performance game! Nonetheless, I can't help but feel like your intention is to pick yourself up at other's expense rather than have an insightful discussion with fellow car enthusiasts.

agree with everything you said

Being older, I have tried other flavors when comparos said they were better- B6 S4 C and D said was better than the E46 M3, and the W204 C63, because the last gen E92 was just too slow for my tastes.

Good to have choices, but competition is not new- but for me, I think that bmw m3 formula worked best, high reving engine, manual/dct high performance tranny, and chassis balance.

the m3 production cycle unfortunately is earlier than most competitors so most of the time the amg's, rs/s cars have a couple of years to benchmark the new gen and make tweaks to their cars.

[F80Moe]

Someone please wake that M3 driver up

He was sleeping even on those rolls WTF

Alpha would still win, but not by that much

[rexb16]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Not sure why you a directing this response at me, but...



I have never argued to the contrary.



And that is why I got an M4, for the dual use. I do 16~20 track days per year.



I've called you a fanboy more than once because many of your comments, devoid of any sound rational or objectivity, fit the fanboy definition to a tee.

here comes capt sav-a-hoe back to defend the honor of his precious alfa!

[mcc3456]

Originally Posted by rexb16

here comes capt sav-a-hoe back to defend the honor of his precious alfa!

Hey man, different strokes for different folks. Was very happy with my M3, but just as happy now with the Alfa, perhaps even more so, but these things are personal. You don’t have to want one to still appreciate them from afar. It’s not a zero sum game!

[mcc3456]

Originally Posted by jmg

I agree with some of your post. Brand loyalty is pointless to me. The Alpha out performs the M3/4 in many ways, but it seems like the inclusion of that last jab is more self-serving than friendly ball busting, it doesn't come off as good natured imho. It certainly doesn't hurt my feelings that there are faster cars out there, that's just a reality. In fact I welcome it. The better the competition, the more options I will have when time comes to replace my current car. Hell, the ZL1 and Z06 puts both the Alpha and M3/4 to shame in the performance game! Nonetheless, I can't help but feel like your intention is to pick yourself up at other's expense rather than have an insightful discussion with fellow car enthusiasts.

Don’t take offense, it was literally just a tongue in cheek, ball busting, hence the wink emoji. One can’t go wrong with either car, unless one is totally incapable of emitting an ounce of praise to a competitor. Everybody likes to throw around the F bomb (“Fanboy”) from time to time to make themselves feel better. However, those that stoop to that level of defensiveness are usually the biggest offenders themselves...as evidenced repeatedly on just about every single M3/M4 vs ... thread. It is what it is, and they are who they are. Kind of unfortunate!

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by mcc3456

Don’t take offense, it was literally just a tongue in cheek, ball busting, hence the wink emoji. One can’t go wrong with either car, unless one is totally incapable of emitting an ounce of praise to a competitor. Everybody likes to throw around the F bomb (“Fanboy”) from time to time to make themselves feel better. However, those that stoop to that level of defensiveness are usually the biggest offenders themselves...as evidenced repeatedly on just about every single M3/M4 vs ... thread. It is what it is, and they are who they are. Kind of unfortunate!

Do you read your own posts? Historically very biased, with a smattering of F U and a smidge of Better Than You.

[mcc3456]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

Do you read your own posts? Historically very biased, with a smattering of F U and a smidge of Better Than You.

This seems to be the problem with this particular Bimmerpost forum these days. Whenever anybody (whether me, or another person) says anything positive about another brand/vehicle, people tend to cop a snarky attitude. I get this is a BMW Forum, but you can’t be so dense as to think that BMW is always the best at everything against every single competitor, can you? That’s just naive.

Being an “M3 vs Alfa Quadrifoglio” thread, just sharing my own actual experience having owned both cars...even simultaneously. Sorry if it’s not consistent with what you hoped the message to be.

Stated repeatedly, I like both cars, but actually like the Alfa a bit more. If I didn’t, I would not have purchased it ($$$)...and conversely, lease-assigned the M3 a year earlier than the actual lease termination date. Think about that. ZERO regrets, and have enjoyed every minute of my ownership experience. Just because I dumped my last M3 doesn’t mean I don’t have an appreciation for other BMWs and won’t buy yet another at some point. Conversely, I’d like to think you are seasoned enough car guys to appreciate different approaches to the same segment too. Am I giving you way too much credit?

In the last 3 years, I’ve either bought for myself or negotiated for a significant other, an M3, M235i, M240i, X3, and X1. Obviously, I like the brand, just not every single thing, about every model, all the time. That’s objectivity, Dude.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by mcc3456

This seems to be the problem with this particular Bimmerpost forum these days. Whenever anybody (whether me, or another person) says anything positive about another brand/vehicle, people tend to cop a snarky attitude. I get this is a BMW Forum, but you can’t be so dense as to think that BMW is always the best at everything against every single competitor, can you? That’s just naive.

Being an “M3 vs Alfa Quadrifoglio” thread, just sharing my own actual experience having owned both cars...even simultaneously. Sorry if it’s not consistent with what you hoped the message to be.

Stated repeatedly, I like both cars, but actually like the Alfa a bit more. If I didn’t, I would not have purchased it ($$$)...and conversely, lease-assigned the M3 a year earlier than the actual lease termination date. Think about that. ZERO regrets, and have enjoyed every minute of my ownership experience. Just because I dumped my last M3 doesn’t mean I don’t have an appreciation for other BMWs won’t buy yet another at some point. Conversely, I’d like to think you are seasoned enough car guys to appreciate different approaches to the same segment too. Am I giving you way too much credit?

Is your theory that there is a universal car that is suited for everyone?

I find that the Alfa is ugly, it was ugly when I saw it first and it is still ugly today.

I don't want the zf tranny on a sports car. After driving PDK, and DCT, it is leagues above the zf8 torque converter.

I find that Alfa, with more hp and torque, r comp tires, should be getting lap times much faster than the M3, instead the cars are close with the M being faster- I value track times more than straight line, I am buying a sports sedan, not a drag star.

I find the reliability of the Alfa to be a problem. I don't dump cars every 2 years like you do, I like to learn the car's characteristics, which can take years, and I find my M3 rewarding me even today almost 4 years, 34k miles later.

You speak about the comparison as a one size fits all. I like it better and owned both so I am right and your reasons to love the M is bunk. This is why I don't go on other forums to teach others about how great my choices were. People choose things for different reasons, I don't live their lives, and I sure as hell don't need to teach them anything.

[Agamemnon]

Hey mc3455, I am glad you are enjoying your ride and, as a car enthusiast, thanks for sharing your experience with the Alfa. It is a very nice vehicle and I would be just as happy having it parked in my garage as I am with the M3. It is a bit of a golden age for the motorcar and I suspect we will be the last generation to enjoy them. An automated electric pod will be in my future just in time for my dementia.

[mcc3456]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

Is your theory that there is a universal car that is suited for everyone?

I find that the Alfa is ugly, it was ugly when I saw it first and it is still ugly today.

I don't want the zf tranny on a sports car. After driving PDK, and DCT, it is leagues above the zf8 torque converter.

I find that Alfa, with more hp and torque, r comp tires, should be getting lap times much faster than the M3, instead the cars are close with the M being faster- I value track times more than straight line, I am buying a sports sedan, not a drag star.

I find the reliability of the Alfa to be a problem. I don't dump cars every 2 years like you do, I like to learn the car's characteristics, which can take years, and I find my M3 rewarding me even today almost 4 years, 34k miles later.

You speak about the comparison as a one size fits all. I like it better and owned both so I am right and your reasons to love the M is bunk. This is why I don't go on other forums to teach others about how great my choices were. People choose things for different reasons, I don't live their lives, and I sure as hell don't need to teach them anything.

Great, so you’re happy with your car, and I’m happy with mine. With that said, why do you guys even bother posting “BMW versus Whatever else” threads? There’s seldom any intelligent discussion about the other brand’s cars, nor is there any sort of respectful sharing of other car owner’s experiences allowed either, only (BMW must be best) group think, or “I read an article”, so it must be true, ignorance.

BTW...you guys are the one’s who keep creating multiple BMW M3 -vs- Alfa Quadrifoglio threads, not me. I’m just contributing some actual ownership experience (of both cars) to the conversation, but sadly, it’s almost always met with some sort of petulant commentary, along with obvious inaccuracies about “the competition”. Guess that qualifies as car enthusiast talk on here these days.

[mcc3456]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Hey mc3455, I am glad you are enjoying your ride and, as a car enthusiast, thanks for sharing your experience with the Alfa. It is a very nice vehicle and I would be just as happy having it parked in my garage as I am with the M3. It is a bit of a golden age for the motorcar and I suspect we will be the last generation to enjoy them. An automated electric pod will be in my future just in time for my dementia.

Thanks Man. Always great to meet another fan of fun cars. Glad there are still a few real car enthusiasts around. Clearly, you’re a dying breed, but stay strong, my friend.