New software seems to change turbo spool up

M4Now! · 08-20-2017, 11:18 PM

For those with older model cars, have you noticed that you have to pay more attention to RPM after the new SW version?

Prior to my update it almost didn't matter where you were in the revs, it would wind up to 2k and then blast off. Since the update, the turbos seem to spin up later and longer, so I've actually bogged the engine a few times getting used to it ("C'mon inline 6!!")

This isn't a complaint, it's just interesting that my F83 now acts a bit more like my old E93.

UPDATE: Some forum members have expressed concern about the change, so I'm adding more detail below:

New SW:

There's no difference for spirited driving, because a) even from a standstill in 1st there's more than enough power to spin the tires, and b) you're rarely below 3k RPM.
The car now feels like it's working with you during hard acceleration, and you get less major wheelspin
The times I feel a difference are when cruising, then quickly needing more speed (e.g. when merging onto another road and you suddenly notice a car coming). I tested it again today, and the best example was in 3rd from about 1.5k RPM. The tach moves somewhat leisurely up to about 2.5k, at which point a sense of urgency develops. Sort of like 'uh...go!" (It isn't turbo lag)
Using my handy butt dyno, it feels like the turbos begin adding power now around 2.5k
And finally, I'm a huge fan of the suspension changes. Before the car felt a bit "floaty" on fast sweepers with any humps or dips; now it feels solidly planted in both Sport and Sport+

Old SW:

With the old SW, it was hard to be below the powerband because you'd have to be below something like 1.4k. So full power was never very far away, and the "lull" I describe above didn't happen.
But, the corollary was that under max acceleration, I had to pay close attention to the throttle and modulate carefully to stay on the edge of wheelspin. More power was available earlier, but in spirited driving it probably wasn't any faster due to traction issues.
And again, the suspension felt floaty to the point that I ran in Sport+ more than I really wanted to.

UPDATE: First, the power lag seems to have diminished, wonder if it's a SW learning thing? Presumably when they flash the SW the car's learning points are reset.

Also, I spent some time relearning the car's behavior, how to most effectively add power, etc. That was actually fun, and now my habits have changed.

But - turbo spool up is still about 700 RPM later than before. I brought it up with my dealer, and they are checking out ways to address. The BMW NA site still says max torque starting at 1,850 RPM, so anything different can be considered a "problem." Am not sure I'll change it back, but want to know my options.

Cheers

GrussGott · 08-20-2017, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M4Now!

For those with older model cars, have you noticed that you have to pay more attention to RPM after the new SW version?

Prior to my update it almost didn't matter where you were in the revs, it would wind up to 2k and then blast off. Since the update, the turbos seem to spin up later and longer, so I've actually bogged the engine a few times getting used to it ("C'mon inline 6!!")

This isn't a complaint, it's just interesting that my F83 now acts a bit more like my old E93.

Cheers

Hmmm ... this is interesting ... have any more anecdotes to share?

I don't plan on updating anything for the rest of the year but then might be getting my new one (cp) - I hope it doesn't suck.

paliknight · 08-21-2017, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M4Now!

For those with older model cars, have you noticed that you have to pay more attention to RPM after the new SW version?

Prior to my update it almost didn't matter where you were in the revs, it would wind up to 2k and then blast off. Since the update, the turbos seem to spin up later and longer, so I've actually bogged the engine a few times getting used to it ("C'mon inline 6!!")

This isn't a complaint, it's just interesting that my F83 now acts a bit more like my old E93.

Cheers

DCT here, but I do notice a lag in acceleration from a stop after the SW update. I noticed it immediately after my car was updated. The car lags like a mofo (relative to a car with this much power) from a dead stop. even in max settings.

stormlv · 08-21-2017, 01:41 AM

Can this be due to a more restrictive DSC?

Does it do the same with DSC off?

JoeKixxon · 08-21-2017, 03:06 AM

What year is your car and why was the software updated? Was it part of standard maintenance?

My 2016 is almost due for service so that's why I ask.

Also, I agree with stormlv
I wonder if it's DSC

Brasko · 08-21-2017, 07:40 AM

Subscribing!

M4Now! · 08-21-2017, 08:52 AM

DSC (corrected) on or off, and mine is a MY15. The SW was updated to correct an error.

My impression from before and after driving is that the turbos spin up several hundred RPM later, and the curve to full boost takes longer. Full boost now seems a lot closer to 3K. Corroborating this, in another thread a forum member pointed to a recent dyno showing max torque at around 3K.

The good news is that it addresses some of the really egregious wheelspin, and also that full power is clearly still there (you get wheelspin in the first two or three gears). Think I like it better, it takes a bit less attention - BUT, it was also fun to successfully manage the power.

I'm not going to lose any sleep over it, the car is more fun and relaxing to drive now, so it's hard to argue.

Cheers

LOW4LYF · 08-21-2017, 10:21 AM

What SW? 17-03 or 17-07?

shortseller · 08-21-2017, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M4Now!

DCT on or off, and mine is a MY15. The SW was updated to correct an error.

My impression from before and after driving is that the turbos spin up several hundred RPM later, and the curve to full boost takes longer. Full boost now seems a lot closer to 3K. Corroborating this, in another thread a forum member pointed to a recent dyno showing max torque at around 3K.

The good news is that it addresses some of the really egregious wheelspin, and also that full power is clearly still there (you get wheelspin in the first two or three gears). Think I like it better, it takes a bit less attention - BUT, it was also fun to successfully manage the power.

I'm not going to lose any sleep over it, the car is more fun and relaxing to drive now, so it's hard to argue.

Cheers

This happened as well with my e92 n54 335i, software change killed the raw nature of the car. In the case of the n54 it was done for different reasons, HPFP & injector banks. For the s55 it seems driving with full torque available at such a low rpm didn't work much for those coming off the previous v8 torque delivery, feathering the gas and the engine management modes notwithstanding, they had drivability issues. Lowering boost and shifting the power band helped but kinda makes "Jack a dull boy".

nycaudioma2 · 08-21-2017, 12:46 PM

I wonder if this post relates to this one I made (on a 2018 M4 that probably has the newer firmware from the factory) ...

Around town, M4 feels slower than 330 Loaner?
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1407090

Fugazii · 08-21-2017, 02:35 PM

I have my car coded so I tell the SA not to update SW.

M4Now! · 08-21-2017, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fugazii

I have my car coded so I tell the SA not to update SW.

Me too. My car threw an error code, and they flashed the SW to fix it. No issue from my perspective.

Cheers

M4Now! · 08-21-2017, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Quote:

Originally Posted by M4Now!

For those with older model cars, have you noticed that you have to pay more attention to RPM after the new SW version?

Prior to my update it almost didn't matter where you were in the revs, it would wind up to 2k and then blast off. Since the update, the turbos seem to spin up later and longer, so I've actually bogged the engine a few times getting used to it ("C'mon inline 6!!")

This isn't a complaint, it's just interesting that my F83 now acts a bit more like my old E93.

Cheers

Hmmm ... this is interesting ... have any more anecdotes to share?

I don't plan on updating anything for the rest of the year but then might be getting my new one (cp) - I hope it doesn't suck.

It doesn't by any means suck - the only difference is you actually have to pay attention to the gear you're in. Before, it didn't really matter

mike@x-ph.com · 08-21-2017, 05:50 PM

sub'd

mechanic75 · 08-21-2017, 06:18 PM

I haven't noticed any significant difference in lag. MY 17 ZCP.

I had an incredible drive last weekend and was focused on the suspension updates (just installed MP HAS) and was super impressed with the suspension and the software changes.

I also noticed how amazingly precise the throttle was and I thought to myself fcuk me this engine is incredible. It actually crossed my mind how close it was to the S65 in terms of throttle precision which is an incredible achievement.

I was on small twisty B roads and it monstered them.

Plenty of rain and streaming roads also and it was easy to modulate the throttle. I haven't driven an early car but they sound like a right handful.

I've also noticed a more aggressive / loud start up.

I think this engine would be seriously lauded if it sounded better.

Caliboy951 · 08-22-2017, 07:58 AM

Install a Sprint Booster V3 and never have any power/lag issues especially from a dig. If I run mine on the most aggressive setting (red 9) I have to be extremely careful in first and second gear because it tricks your car into delivering full power.

gatorfast · 08-22-2017, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caliboy951

Install a Sprint Booster V3 and never have any power/lag issues especially from a dig. If I run mine on the most aggressive setting (red 9) I have to be extremely careful in first and second gear because it tricks your car into delivering full power.

I enjoyed the sprint booster on my old 528i. I may have to pick one up for the M3.

M4Now! · 09-13-2017, 03:02 PM

Updated in lead post

JoM3z · 09-13-2017, 06:53 PM

I believe I have the latest SW on my 2016 ZCP M4, full boost doesn't come on till 2500 rpm, which was my complaint and was told this was normal. If this is not the case can someone else chime in and provide their feedback and any information from the dealer.

M4Now! · 09-13-2017, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoM3z

I believe I have the latest SW on my 2016 ZCP M4, full boost doesn't come on till 2500 rpm, which was my complaint and was told this was normal. If this is not the case can someone else chime in and provide their feedback and any information from the dealer.

When I first bought my car, full boost came on at 1,850. And BMW still shows the original "full torque at 1,850, so...?

TurboM · 09-14-2017, 12:11 AM

Almost everything being described here resembles my thoughts when I transitioned from a 16MY base to a 18MY ZCP. Wonder if BMW is implementing some of the ZCP characteristics across the board.

whoop_ass · 09-14-2017, 01:08 AM

maybe it for the better guys
it already has to much power to apply to the road, 275 dont cut it.

coming onto boost slower will aid in putting the power down and will make a faster car vs one always fighting traction.

08-20-2017, 11:18 PM	#1
M4Now! Captain 292 Rep 708 Posts Drives: MG / SO F83 Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Texas iTrader: (0)	For those with older model cars, have you noticed that you have to pay more attention to RPM after the new SW version? Prior to my update it almost didn't matter where you were in the revs, it would wind up to 2k and then blast off. Since the update, the turbos seem to spin up later and longer, so I've actually bogged the engine a few times getting used to it ("C'mon inline 6!!") This isn't a complaint, it's just interesting that my F83 now acts a bit more like my old E93. UPDATE: Some forum members have expressed concern about the change, so I'm adding more detail below: New SW: There's no difference for spirited driving, because a) even from a standstill in 1st there's more than enough power to spin the tires, and b) you're rarely below 3k RPM. The car now feels like it's working with you during hard acceleration, and you get less major wheelspin The times I feel a difference are when cruising, then quickly needing more speed (e.g. when merging onto another road and you suddenly notice a car coming). I tested it again today, and the best example was in 3rd from about 1.5k RPM. The tach moves somewhat leisurely up to about 2.5k, at which point a sense of urgency develops. Sort of like 'uh...go!" (It isn't turbo lag) Using my handy butt dyno, it feels like the turbos begin adding power now around 2.5k And finally, I'm a huge fan of the suspension changes. Before the car felt a bit "floaty" on fast sweepers with any humps or dips; now it feels solidly planted in both Sport and Sport+ Old SW: With the old SW, it was hard to be below the powerband because you'd have to be below something like 1.4k. So full power was never very far away, and the "lull" I describe above didn't happen. But, the corollary was that under max acceleration, I had to pay close attention to the throttle and modulate carefully to stay on the edge of wheelspin. More power was available earlier, but in spirited driving it probably wasn't any faster due to traction issues. And again, the suspension felt floaty to the point that I ran in Sport+ more than I really wanted to. UPDATE: First, the power lag seems to have diminished, wonder if it's a SW learning thing? Presumably when they flash the SW the car's learning points are reset. Also, I spent some time relearning the car's behavior, how to most effectively add power, etc. That was actually fun, and now my habits have changed. But - turbo spool up is still about 700 RPM later than before. I brought it up with my dealer, and they are checking out ways to address. The BMW NA site still says max torque starting at 1,850 RPM, so anything different can be considered a "problem." Am not sure I'll change it back, but want to know my options. Cheers __________________ Bye bye E93 M3 - Hello F83 M4! Last edited by M4Now!; 08-22-2017 at 04:29 PM..
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08-21-2017, 01:41 AM	#4
stormlv Human 932 Rep 1,200 Posts Drives: Yes Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Geneva iTrader: (1)	Can this be due to a more restrictive DSC? Does it do the same with DSC off? __________________ 2023 BMW M4 CP xDr \| 510HP / 650Nm \| Isle of Man Green \| Photo album Sold 2018 BMW M4 DCT / ZCP\| 450HP / 550Nm \| Sakhir Orange \| Photo album \| Tribute Sold 2014 BMW 435xd \| 360HP / 710Nm \| Estoril Blue \| Photo album 2010 BMW Z4 sDrive35i DKG \| 306 HP / 400Nm \| Space Gray \| Photo album
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08-21-2017, 03:06 AM	#5
JoeKixxon Captain 715 Rep 746 Posts Drives: 2016 M3 Sakhir Orange on Black Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Austin, Texas iTrader: (0)	What year is your car and why was the software updated? Was it part of standard maintenance? My 2016 is almost due for service so that's why I ask. Also, I agree with stormlv I wonder if it's DSC
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08-21-2017, 07:40 AM	#6
Brasko #LSBM3 1420 Rep 1,973 Posts Drives: 2016 BMW M3 Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Oregon / Florida iTrader: (4) Garage List 1984 BMW R65 [0.00] 2020 Ford F-150 XLT ... [0.00] 2003 Mitsubishi Evo ... [0.00] 2016 M3 Competition ... [10.00]	Subscribing! __________________ /// M3
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08-21-2017, 08:52 AM	#7
M4Now! Captain 292 Rep 708 Posts Drives: MG / SO F83 Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Texas iTrader: (0)	DSC (corrected) on or off, and mine is a MY15. The SW was updated to correct an error. My impression from before and after driving is that the turbos spin up several hundred RPM later, and the curve to full boost takes longer. Full boost now seems a lot closer to 3K. Corroborating this, in another thread a forum member pointed to a recent dyno showing max torque at around 3K. The good news is that it addresses some of the really egregious wheelspin, and also that full power is clearly still there (you get wheelspin in the first two or three gears). Think I like it better, it takes a bit less attention - BUT, it was also fun to successfully manage the power. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it, the car is more fun and relaxing to drive now, so it's hard to argue. Cheers __________________ Bye bye E93 M3 - Hello F83 M4!
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08-21-2017, 10:21 AM	#8
LOW4LYF Brigadier General 2163 Rep 4,106 Posts Drives: E92 M3 & F85 X5M Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: @Home iTrader: (1)	What SW? 17-03 or 17-07?
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08-21-2017, 12:46 PM	#10
nycaudioma2 Private 13 Rep 67 Posts Drives: '18 M4 Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: NYC iTrader: (0)	I wonder if this post relates to this one I made (on a 2018 M4 that probably has the newer firmware from the factory) ... Around town, M4 feels slower than 330 Loaner? http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1407090
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08-21-2017, 02:35 PM	#11
Fugazii Captain 235 Rep 755 Posts Drives: G82/2022 Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: WPB iTrader: (0)	I have my car coded so I tell the SA not to update SW.
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08-21-2017, 05:50 PM	#14
mike@x-ph.com BimmerPost Supporting Vendor 24198 Rep 190,805 Posts Drives: 07-335/12-328/18-M4/21-M4CP Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Las Vegas iTrader: (23)	sub'd __________________ Check out our current sale by clicking on this link! https://x-ph.com/sale/ Phone number 702-494-9435
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08-21-2017, 06:18 PM	#15
mechanic75 Private First Class 84 Rep 160 Posts Drives: M3cs Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Somewhere Else iTrader: (0)	I haven't noticed any significant difference in lag. MY 17 ZCP. I had an incredible drive last weekend and was focused on the suspension updates (just installed MP HAS) and was super impressed with the suspension and the software changes. I also noticed how amazingly precise the throttle was and I thought to myself fcuk me this engine is incredible. It actually crossed my mind how close it was to the S65 in terms of throttle precision which is an incredible achievement. I was on small twisty B roads and it monstered them. Plenty of rain and streaming roads also and it was easy to modulate the throttle. I haven't driven an early car but they sound like a right handful. I've also noticed a more aggressive / loud start up. I think this engine would be seriously lauded if it sounded better.
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08-22-2017, 07:58 AM	#16
Caliboy951 Second Lieutenant 202 Rep 297 Posts Drives: 2016 M4 Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: So Cal iTrader: (1)	Install a Sprint Booster V3 and never have any power/lag issues especially from a dig. If I run mine on the most aggressive setting (red 9) I have to be extremely careful in first and second gear because it tricks your car into delivering full power.
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09-13-2017, 03:02 PM	#18
M4Now! Captain 292 Rep 708 Posts Drives: MG / SO F83 Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Texas iTrader: (0)	Updated in lead post __________________ Bye bye E93 M3 - Hello F83 M4!
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09-13-2017, 06:53 PM	#19
JoM3z Lieutenant 56 Rep 496 Posts Drives: 2023 CP XDrive G82 M4 - SSG Join Date: May 2012 Location: Mars iTrader: (1) Garage List 2023 BMW M4 CP xDrive [0.00]	I believe I have the latest SW on my 2016 ZCP M4, full boost doesn't come on till 2500 rpm, which was my complaint and was told this was normal. If this is not the case can someone else chime in and provide their feedback and any information from the dealer.
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09-14-2017, 12:11 AM	#21
TurboM Captain 252 Rep 674 Posts Drives: 2018 F82 M4 ZCP Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Atlanta iTrader: (1)	Almost everything being described here resembles my thoughts when I transitioned from a 16MY base to a 18MY ZCP. Wonder if BMW is implementing some of the ZCP characteristics across the board.
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09-14-2017, 01:08 AM	#22
whoop_ass Captain 355 Rep 719 Posts Drives: non Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: On Earth iTrader: (0)	maybe it for the better guys it already has to much power to apply to the road, 275 dont cut it. coming onto boost slower will aid in putting the power down and will make a faster car vs one always fighting traction.
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