ED Experience, tips, info (long)

[GrussGott]

Hi all, dropped off and am heading back so thought I'd toss out a few things I've learned, with pics to come once I return.

EDIT: Photos now up here but warning on the high bandwidth of the thread

So some notes on my European Delivery experience ... just ED notes here, more on the car in another post. Caveat: all of this is obvioiusly my opinion based on my experience, YMMV. I am not a travel, ED, or Euro touring expert.

(1.) Arrival in Munich
We arrived in Munich the day before; The MUC airport is small and very managable, but about 1/2 hour from downtown... You can take a train, taxi, or use Sixt which is an awesome way to arrive - really provides a first class experience. Our driver was training to be an airport firefighter and also was into extreme sports - very fun to talk to. As for all the BMW museums, etc many others have covered all of that so I'll skip it. As for hotels, there are lots of German hotels of course, but it's worth noting the hilton has a train station and secure parking.
Recommendations: Hilton hotel, Sixt for airport transfer

(2.) Pick-up
For the second time we selected the earliest time available on our day, 915. This is great as there are few people in the Welt and it's easy to see everything, take pictures, and shop with no crowds. You also leave the Welt right after rush hour (~1030a) but before lunch rush so it makes the first moments in the new car less stressful. This time around I also taped a Mobius to my glasses - looked pretty janky but it worked well, especially for driving ... walking, eh. I also tried my 6D with IS which was ok but if you want a smooth video shot of delivery you probably need a gimbal. We also had the 2-series pace car give us a victory lap out - I was glad we did, pretty hilarious.
Recommendations: early delivery time, pace car victory lap, video gimbal if that's important to you

(3.) Road trip!
Last time we did Munich to Hamburg and back. That was a great trip as it had lots of autobahn driving, lots of German back roads and was, in general, great with the car. This trip I'll break up into each leg:

3a.) Munich - Zurich
Lots of routes you can go, but we took the direct route, stopping back at our hotel first to pack up - even so, we arrived about 5pm. Theres secure underground parking at 20 Beethovenstrasse which is public and very nice / secure. A lot of cars way more expensive than an M4 in there. If you like car spotting find any cafe in town center.
Recommendations: Find a nice underground ramp, Lindt chocolate factory.

3b.) Zurich - Milan
This was the best drive of the trip - lots of mountain passes to dive bomb and, depending on the route you take, you can have them all to yourself. We took a less travelled path southwest towards Interlaken. Originally we were going to take the Furka pass east but it was a beautiful day and there were lots of cars so we opted to back track north on the Grimsel pass and then take the Sustenstrasse east so we could use the Gotthard tunnel - it was beautiful and very few cars. I was able to push the car a bit and get a comparitive sense of it versus the E93 - more on that in another post. Needless to say, the scenery was insane. Cows with frickin bells next to fresh black-topped roads. And the Swiss loved the car; color (moonstone) vs car questions were about 50-50.
Recommendation: drive mountain passes in Switzerland! You can take famous roads but taking the not-so-known roads will give you sports opportunities in the best scenery in the World.
Recommendation #2: We had warm weather, but it was 40s / 50s in the mountain passes ... get snows if you're Nov-spring.

3b.i) Lugano
Just don't do it. It's a trap, you'll never get out, and it's nothing compared to the lake roads. GPS, google maps, Via Michelin .... Lugano laughs at such tools. Lugano: if you don't know where you're going, what are you doing here? At one point I was driving on a sidewalk (technically a road) with 8' stone walls on both sides - I had to retract the mirrors and just prayed it would let me out somehow. It did, but that's the worst 15 minutes of driving I've ever had.
Recommendation: do not drive in Italy, and whatever you do, do NOT drive in Lugano.

3b.ii) Milan
Driving into Milan is easy, driving IN Milan is asking for trouble. If you're not familiar with the roads you will need to break the law and you'll likely be almost hit about 1000 times. If this worries you in a new car avoid the inner-city. That said, Milan is awesome.
Recommendation: don't drive inner-city and secure parking is challenging - do your homework ahead of time

3c.) Milan - Nice
Sorry Italy, but you're no Germany or Switzerland when it comes to roads. Both my wife and I were counting the Ks to the France border. I likely will not drive an ED car in Italy ever again.
Recommendation: do not drive your ED car in Italy

3c.i) Italian Riveria
The tunnels. OMG the tunnels. Tunnel, tunnel, tunnel vision. The idea of driving a convertible along the Italian coast to the French Riviera sounds awesome! The reality? Not so much. An un-ending series of tunnels next to semis for 3 hours. In a few places one tunnel would end and another would start within 5 car lengths.
Recommendation: Italy is best seen by rail or in a rental car

3c.ii) Nice
Great walkable city, fairly easy to drive into and out of. Lots of traffic, but if Chicago or San Francisco doesn't scare you neither will Nice. There's a public secure ramp that's spotless at the corner of Rue du Congres and Prom des Anglais - lots of spendy cars in there and many spots on the lower floors are singles so no worries about door dings
Recommendation: park in the Rue d. Congres ramp, lock up, and don't return until you leave town

3c.iii) Monaco
Take the train in, driving it would be tough, although not as bad as Milan and nothing is as bad as Lugano except a head-on crash. Lots of car stuff in this town: Grand Prix obviously, but also the Prince's car collection which has all kinds of cool stuff: F1 cars, motorcycles, etc.
Recommendation: take the express train from Nice (the bus takes longer), plan on a day if you want to see the sights and the car museum. Baller note: you can take a helicopter too - a limo picks you up at your hotel and the ride is 7 minutes. (I didn't do it, but others say it's worth it albeit spendy at ~$120/person)

3d.) Nice - Geneva
Originally we planned to take the Route de Napoleon (where they did the launch) but dedicded to go through Provence instead. Great scenery, but this is the time to note that while neither of us would do it differently, the miles started grinding at about this point. Lots of crazy stuff happened as you'd see on any road trip, like getting passed by a neon green Lambo that had to have been doing 150mph.
Recommendation: take the Route de Napoleon unless Provence has special allure to you

3e.) Geneva to Belgium
For this part we mirrored the Route de Vin, crossing through many of the towns. That was smart because traffic can be like Napa or any other bucolic-touristy place in the World. Driving around Lake Geneva was awesome - everything Lugano wasn't - and the transition from the French Alps to Swiss to Vosges wine country was awesome.
Recommendation: take this lesser discussed drive if you're looking for a romantic country cruise

3e.i) Belgium
If you like Chocolate, beer, mustard, coffee, and bakery products Belgium is a must stop; however apparently the Germans show up on the weekends and eat all of the eggs.

(4.) Paris Drop-off
Great place to drop off - car wash is right around the corner, if you need a hotel at the airport there are lots and the Hilton has a great public ramp that's very secure if you need a place to park to travel into the city before drop-off


Random Notes:
* Credit cards - unless you have a chip-n-PIN credit card you're going to have some trouble at various gas stations, parking ramps, and other small merchants. Bring a lot of Euros (or Swiss Francs) and be prepared for your cards not to work. Larger stores and merchants where a signature is possible work fine, but automated card machines are a no-go.

* DCT Neutral issue - the car-goes-into-neutral problem is HUGE. Many a new Bimmer will be crashed and/or damaged because of this horrific change. Multiple valets left my car in neutral - luckily I was able to avoid almost all of them, but don't trust your car with anybody or even yourself. Shutting off the car after reversing is going to cost insurance companies millions. Pull the brake EVERY TIME.

* Tolls - If you drive a lot of miles expect to pay a LOT in tolls - we probably spend 200+ with some stretches costing $20 or more. You may not be able to use credit cards (see chip-n-pin) so have the cash ready and always use the cash lanes

* Gas - there were a few stretches where gas was hard to find. In the e93 it would've gotten critical, but with greater range is only mildly worrisome. At one point we had to stop at an "exclusive" which is a toll exit with a single pump just sitting by the toll booth. If need to use it, go really slow because if you miss it you can't go back. My delivery specialist said to use 95 and that there was very little benefit to using 98 or above - so that's what I did with no problems.

* Speeding - I did quite a bit of speeding, but I used the same rules as I apply in the US: always use a rabbit or 2, watch the ramps, watch for brake lights, etc etc. I did see a few traps and a few pull overs, but nothing close to me. That said, I did get flashed in Switzerland when I was in a small town more worried about the directions than my speed. DOH!

[Doctor///M]

Good notes! Completely agree with you on driving in Milan... definitely not for the faint of heart. My countdown is on and can't wait!

[DslDwg]

I'd love to know more about driving in/around Paris as it is a stop my wife and I are looking forward to. Sounds like the Hilton is still outside the city a bit?

Would you suggest securing the car there and making our way into Paris for the touristy stuff?

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by DslDwg

I'd love to know more about driving in/around Paris as it is a stop my wife and I are looking forward to. Sounds like the Hilton is still outside the city a bit?

Would you suggest securing the car there and making our way into Paris for the touristy stuff?

Definitely - the ramp at the Hilton was very nice with easy bathrooms just take the stairs up and take a left as you exit into the conference space. There's also a nice huge bar area in the lobby to grab something to eat if you need it and then grab the shuttle to the airport which drops off near the train station.

Alternatively you can take a taxi (70 e or less if you negotiate) or use uber. If you drop your car at tt transit they'll get you a cab... Just dont pay more than 70 for center Paris... Less if stop by the nearest metro.

Another note on cell phones : I use t-mobile, bought a high speed data pass, and have had good service throughout all 8 countries we've been to.

If you want great coffee in Paris, try telescope, fantastic! Also close to Hisada cheese shop if you're into artisan cheese.

[RingMeister01]

Great notes, sir. Italy is ALWAYS a nightmare to drive in/through. I've been over a dozen times and it never fails. Whether its Alps, Tuscany, Sicily.. expect to be pulled over or stopped at the boarder. You'll new accused of some sort of violation or tariff, which they will not attempt to explain in English (Italians refuse to learn another language but their own) and shake you down for a couple hundred Euros. Oh and the high toll system...ugh

[dmk08]

What is the neutral issue you speak about?

[Algol]

If you shut the car off in neutral (DCT) it will warn you and I believe wont let you lock the doors. If you shut the car off in drive it will have the same effect as shutting off the car in reverse. Treat it like a manual and always use the parking brake if parked on an incline.

OP has balls driving around in Milan! Most Italian roads especially in the mountains are little more than medieval goat paths.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by Algol

If you shut the car off in neutral (DCT) it will warn you and I believe wont let you lock the doors. If you shut the car off in drive it will have the same effect as shutting off the car in reverse. Treat it like a manual and always use the parking brake if parked on an incline.

OP has balls driving around in Milan! Most Italian roads especially in the mountains are little more than medieval goat paths.

Are you holding the off button and/or pressing it twice? It should go into P when you shut down all the way.

[Bluex]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

* Credit cards - unless you have a chip-n-PIN credit card you're going to have some trouble at various gas stations, parking ramps, and other small merchants. Bring a lot of Euros (or Swiss Francs) and be prepared for your cards not to work. Larger stores and merchants where a signature is possible work fine, but automated card machines are a no-go.

First off, excellent write up, i've filed all of this away for my future ED in April/May.

I am curious about the credit card issues above. I've traveled to the UK and used my Wells Fargo bank card many times (with appropriately filed travel plan), and I do understand that they are now re-issuing CC's (upon request) with the chip technology that is more widely accepted throughout Europe, however for those people that use their bank (debit) cards mostly this is not the case. It's just not available.

However for some early adopters of the new iPhone 6 and Apple Pay, it *seems* to be working abroad. For those not aware, Apple Pay basically is for those iphone 6, 6+ and new ipad users that ties your bank card, credit card ect to the chip and touch id technology in your phone. So, at all the NFC (chip) payment points you merely hold your phone up, use your thumb print and off you go. There are reports of this working.

I'm curious if this is a way around having to get a re-issued chip/pin card, and how well it will work throughout the EU.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by dmk08

Are you holding the off button and/or pressing it twice? It should go into P when you shut down all the way.

Not if you're in neutral any longer... Here's the crash scenario: valet pulls your car up, drives a little past, puts it in reverse, stops, moves the dct out of r into n, and kills the ignition and gets out to hand you the keys as the car rolls away.

Or, you back into a spot, stop, pull the dct out of r and kill the ignition. You're rolling in neutral now.

Or you drive up your driveway, put it in n, kill the ignition, and walk down to get your mail as your car rolls past you.

In the E93 you'd be in park, but in the f8x it'll only go into park if you kill the ignition in gear, so I guess it's even more like a manual now.

One benefit is that there's no more rolling kill problem ... In the e9x if you're rolling in n and kill the ignition you hard lock the wheels, in the f8x I suppose you'd just keep rolling.

[beanboy]

Excellent write-up! Thank you for taking the time to do it!

I've seen several posts about driving in Italy and more specifically, Milan.

I've driven in Italy on 3 separate occasions, and once did an ED all through Italy in a 2013 M5 with stops that included driving into the heart of Milan.

Milan may be a little challenging. I found Italy in general to not be as easy to drive in as Germany, but it's definitely do-able. Personally I found areas like Lake Como harder to drive in than Milan. The roads were insanely narrow there.

Parker

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by beanboy

Excellent write-up! Thank you for taking the time to do it!

I've seen several posts about driving in Italy and more specifically, Milan.

I've driven in Italy on 3 separate occasions, and once did an ED all through Italy in a 2013 M5 with stops that included driving into the heart of Milan.

Milan may be a little challenging. I found Italy in general to not be as easy to drive in as Germany, but it's definitely do-able. Personally I found areas like Lake Como harder to drive in than Milan. The roads were insanely narrow there.

Parker

Definitely - I'd suggest someone use a rental to see the lakes... The stress ruined any scenery. This dude came around a corner and I swear took off a micron of paint from our bumper while I almost crashed into a tree trying to avoid him. After two of those I held up traffic to turn around and leave.

Lake Geneva was awesome though.

[DslDwg]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Definitely - the ramp at the Hilton was very nice with easy bathrooms just take the stairs up and take a left as you exit into the conference space. There's also a nice huge bar area in the lobby to grab something to eat if you need it and then grab the shuttle to the airport which drops off near the train station.

Alternatively you can take a taxi (70 e or less if you negotiate) or use uber. If you drop your car at tt transit they'll get you a cab... Just dont pay more than 70 for center Paris... Less if stop by the nearest metro.

Another note on cell phones : I use t-mobile, bought a high speed data pass, and have had good service throughout all 8 countries we've been to.

If you want great coffee in Paris, try telescope, fantastic! Also close to Hisada cheese shop if you're into artisan cheese.

Perfect thanks - don't think we'll drop the car in Paris but definitely want to see Paris. After all the warnings not to drive in Paris I'm listening.

I wish I would have seen the Italy warnings prior as well, would have spent more time in Austria, Germany and Switzerland.

I didn't have issues with narrow streets or cobblestone roads, my first ED was in a Z4 so of course it's nice and small. My issue in Italy was dodging the insane Italian drivers in my brand new car.

The other thing I find funny on these forums is someone is always complaining about the Vignette systems in Austria and Switzerland but I know for a fact we spent way more money on random Italian toll gates. Would much rather pay 30 Euro and affix a tag to my windshield then stopping every 50km to pay a toll.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by DslDwg

Perfect thanks - don't think we'll drop the car in Paris but definitely want to see Paris. After all the warnings not to drive in Paris I'm listening.

I wish I would have seen the Italy warnings prior as well, would have spent more time in Austria, Germany and Switzerland.

I didn't have issues with narrow streets or cobblestone roads, my first ED was in a Z4 so of course it's nice and small. My issue in Italy was dodging the insane Italian drivers in my brand new car.

The other thing I find funny on these forums is someone is always complaining about the Vignette systems in Austria and Switzerland but I know for a fact we spent way more money on random Italian toll gates. Would much rather pay 30 Euro and affix a tag to my windshield then stopping every 50km to pay a toll.

Yeah we actually forgot until we crossed the Austrian border and were riding dirty - there was a vignette sign, we pulled into the nearest and bought both. Pretty easy. The Italian and French tolls are crazy and WAY more expensive.

If you're close to Ghent (or not) and like awesome mustard stop by tierenteyn - you can only get it there and it's worth it. They shovel it outa a wooden barrel. I went up to vooruit, got a ham sandwich, and dumped on the tierenteyn ... My head almost blew up but it's worth it

[s4play]

Awesome notes, even though I won't be doing ED I just wish I could one day....

Your notes reminded me of our backpacking trip through Europe including Venice and other parts...hahaha ~ some of those roads are crazy if you even call them roads. We rented a scooter in Rome and people were coming head on at us whenever there was traffic. I'm surprised we survived without any injuries. But being able to take our scooter to the Vatican was a super memorable experience. I don't think I would have enjoyed the trip if I had a brand new BMW to worry about though....

[myzmak]

Nice write up. I spent a few days in Geneva back in the spring. Interesting to note whether you thought Zurich was more for the hot cars than Geneva, which I thought had no shortage of bling-on-wheels.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by myzmak

Nice write up. I spent a few days in Geneva back in the spring. Interesting to note whether you thought Zurich was more for the hot cars than Geneva, which I thought had no shortage of bling-on-wheels.

Ha, good point! Pretty much anywhere was good including Bern. If I had to pick a spotting city I'd pick Zurich just because I prefer its style, but Geneva had more exotics at least when I rolled through.

[castilla]

Can you explain the dct neutral issue ? What exactly damages the gearbox?

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by castilla

Can you explain the dct neutral issue ? What exactly damages the gearbox?

Its taking the car out of gear and killing the ignition - it leaves the car in neutral which means it can roll down hills and kill people or whatever

[RobbyMack]

Sounds like a great trip! I'd ditto the never drive in Italy comments. One 15 minute session in Florence was all the convincing I ever needed. Most of the Italian countryside and small towns are just fine but I avoid larger cities like the plague.

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Its taking the car out of gear and killing the ignition - it leaves the car in neutral which means it can roll down hills and kill people or whatever

...and all I can think about is this classic:

[dclowd9901]

"Chip-n-PIN" I've never heard of this, and I'm pretty up on, you know, methods of paying for things...

Edit: Read up more on this -- if your card has a microchip looking thingy, that's what he's talking about. Most new credit cards have them. Some (like Chase) don't require an actual PIN, they just have a signature given at the end of the transaction.

Also, if you're manually putting the car in neutral (which it seems like you have to according to your scenarios), what's the issue? A person should remember that they just put the car in neutral, and it's essentially a loaded weapon at that point -- no different than any other type of transmission...