European Auto Source (EAS)
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Forum > M3/M4 versus...

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-24-2014, 12:48 PM   #23
3M TAPE
Banned
3M TAPE's Avatar
No_Country
350
Rep
1,225
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: States

iTrader: (0)

507 is indeed a very special car.
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 12:50 PM   #24
Powaup
Brigadier General
Powaup's Avatar
United_States
1252
Rep
3,688
Posts

Drives: 2021 Supra 3.0 (Past: 2015 M23
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: San Francisco, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2015 BMW M4  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Year's_End View Post
Welp.

so it's that awesome of a car huh, would you say it's a collector?
__________________
Check out my YouTube Channel Powaup
Instagram: @ Powaup
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 12:53 PM   #25
Year's_End
Lieutenant General
Year's_End's Avatar
United_States
1112
Rep
12,442
Posts

Drives: 2020 Shelby GT350
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powaup View Post
so it's that awesome of a car huh, would you say it's a collector?
I'd say it's a well accomplished car that is better measured on its intangibles rather than objective paper stats. To be honest, my time with a facelifted model is minimal but I've had plenty of experience with the MY08-11 version. Personally, the engine's a dime piece; the transmission is completely mediocre.
__________________
Past: '08 E92 335i|ZPP|ZSP|6AT
Past: '15 Mustang GT|401A|PP|6MT
Current: '20 Shelby GT350|6MT
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 01:01 PM   #26
SuckaGDog
Captain
128
Rep
617
Posts

Drives: M5, C63 AMG Black Series
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: DFW, TX

iTrader: (0)

If I could find a C63 Edition 507 that wasn't overly overpriced for sale I would pick one up in heartbeat! By the time I considered on getting one they stopped production on the sedan models in preparation for the next generation. It was around this time last year when people started rushing to order their 507 models.

At this point I don't care if its a coupe or sedan 507 I just want one lol. I only have seen one on eBay and they are asking $70k+.
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 01:11 PM   #27
Small Yellow
Track Addict
Small Yellow's Avatar
Taiwan
110
Rep
813
Posts

Drives: 2010 BMW M3 E92 | 2008 Z4M E86
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Orange County, California

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powaup View Post
I get that the C63 amg edition 507 is a great car and has the best hand built V8 engine but is it that good that even with a crappy automatic transmission it's better than an M4?

I'm obviously bias because I own an M4 and have never driven a C63 but I feel that the final result of the C63 wining the comparison is unfair when the M4 wins in suspension, breaking, transmission, price($10k less), technology and fuel consumption
Not to argue with you but thats also the reason why many of us don't buy the GTR because it distracts the driving feel. Yes it is fast, but it doesn't give you the same soulful feeling that, say, a GT3 RS would give you. Personally I would much rather have a car that brings me more excitement rather than a car that is fast because when will we ever drive a car to its limit for it to matter? And if say we track it, I am sure most of us don't have the ability to come close to what the car is capable of.
__________________
BMW ///M3 Coupe
Completed November 16, 2009
Received December 29,2009
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 01:13 PM   #28
TheBingoBalls
Brigadier General
TheBingoBalls's Avatar
Canada
3805
Rep
4,655
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Toronto, Ontario

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Old rules vs. new rules. They both drive great so hydraulic steering and that naturally aspirated V8 is the tie breaker in favor of the C63 507. No surprise here...
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 01:17 PM   #29
r3dbimmer89
Major
r3dbimmer89's Avatar
331
Rep
1,268
Posts

Drives: P-Car
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (0)

I do agree that maybe the W204 C63 and E9X M3 feel a little more "special" than the F8X but this isn't really apples to apples here. Everything they love about the C63 will be gone next year in the W205 version minus the mighty V8. But even then, it will be turbo charged so you're not going to get that pure "unfiltered noise" nor that instant throttle response.

The W205 C63 versus the F80 M3 is a review that I am excitingly waiting for. A true apples to apples comparison. Both will be turbo charged with EPS etc.
__________________
Past: BMW (22 G20 M340i, 15 F80 ///M3, 12 E92 335i, 08 E90 335i, 02 E46 325i)
Mercedes-Benz, Porsche, VW, Lexus
Present: 24 992 C2
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 01:28 PM   #30
TheBingoBalls
Brigadier General
TheBingoBalls's Avatar
Canada
3805
Rep
4,655
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Toronto, Ontario

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by r3dbimmer89 View Post
I do agree that maybe the W204 C63 and E9X M3 feel a little more "special" than the F8X but this isn't really apples to apples here. Everything they love about the C63 will be gone next year in the W205 version minus the mighty V8. But even then, it will be turbo charged so you're not going to get that pure "unfiltered noise" nor that instant throttle response.

The W205 C63 versus the F80 M3 is a review that I am excitingly waiting for. A true apples to apples comparison. Both will be turbo charged with EPS etc.
+1. These are all great cars but reviewers do a terrible job of putting things into context. I remember reading a few comparisons between the RS5 and F3X M3/M4 (with the RS5 winning for obvious reasons...) and the reviewer acted like this was a next-gen Audi and how this was the route Audi was taking while BMW took the electric-steering + turbo route because they wanted to.

It's one thing to express your opinion that the current RS5 is made to compete with the F8X M3/M4 because they're on the same product cycle and another thing to express your opinion that the RS5 is better than the F8X M3/M4 today because it's still using "old" tech with old rules and regulations knowing and explaining that what is currently in the RS5 will likely be gone in the next one.
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 01:44 PM   #31
JRV
Captain
United_States
119
Rep
922
Posts

Drives: 2011.75 AWE90M3
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: CT

iTrader: (1)

While i understand how some people are now saying you cant compare old tech to the new one, what is it about them exactly that you cant compare? Everyone seems to love comparing the lowly E9X to the new model. Since the RC F has an NA V8, can it not be compared to the F8X M? I am just trying to understand why in the beginning before the video comes out, everyone seems eager and then after it comes out, so do the complaints.
__________________
'11 Black/Black GLK350 (Wife)
'19 Black RAM 1500 Big Horn Night Package
'11 Loaded AW Fox Red/Black/Black Carbon Leather ZCP E90 M3 (Halloween Delivery)
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 01:50 PM   #32
jskrilla
Second Lieutenant
jskrilla's Avatar
Albania
71
Rep
266
Posts

Drives: M235i Xdrive
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: New York

iTrader: (0)

Great description ///M>AMG
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 01:57 PM   #33
Blindside_137
Lieutenant General
Blindside_137's Avatar
United_States
6694
Rep
10,595
Posts

Drives: 2011.75 SSII E90 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Raleigh, NC

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powaup
I get that the C63 amg edition 507 is a great car and has the best hand built V8 engine but is it that good that even with a crappy automatic transmission it's better than an M4?

I'm obviously bias because I own an M4 and have never driven a C63 but I feel that the final result of the C63 wining the comparison is unfair when the M4 wins in suspension, breaking, transmission, price($10k less), technology and fuel consumption
For the same reason the E92 won many comparisons. It's about how the car makes you feel, and sometimes that matters more than anything else.
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 02:37 PM   #34
swanson
Convicted Felon
swanson's Avatar
733
Rep
2,180
Posts

Drives: chariot
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRV View Post
While i understand how some people are now saying you cant compare old tech to the new one, what is it about them exactly that you cant compare? Everyone seems to love comparing the lowly E9X to the new model. Since the RC F has an NA V8, can it not be compared to the F8X M? I am just trying to understand why in the beginning before the video comes out, everyone seems eager and then after it comes out, so do the complaints.


Take a guess
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 02:49 PM   #35
ybbiz34
Brigadier General
ybbiz34's Avatar
670
Rep
4,959
Posts

Drives: 2023 330i M Sport
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powaup View Post
I get that the C63 amg edition 507 is a great car and has the best hand built V8 engine but is it that good that even with a crappy automatic transmission it's better than an M4?

I'm obviously bias because I own an M4 and have never driven a C63 but I feel that the final result of the C63 wining the comparison is unfair when the M4 wins in suspension, breaking, transmission, price($10k less), technology and fuel consumption
Drive an LCI ('12+) car if you can. You'll enjoy it.

The transmission isn't necessarily a true automatic. There is no torque converter. It has been replaced by a wet start-up clutch.

As far as the suspension is concerned, my C63's suspension feels firmer than M4's (which I have driven; I liked it a lot). The steering feel on the C63 is very nice as well (firm; consistent, irrespective of driving mode). The steering feel on the M4 is lovely as well, just different (maybe a bit heavier in S+ with slightly less feedback).

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMacSmallFries View Post

These two quotes say it all. Can't believe the E9x destoryed the C63, and now all of a sudden the new M3 is having trouble keeping up with the C63 that was not considered a great driver's car at the time.
The LCI C63 is actually faster around the 'ring than the E9X M3. The LCI C63 turned in a time of 8:01 whereas the E92 turned in a time of 8:05.

http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife.html

When the E9X M3 debuted, it was a step ahead of the C63. When the LCI C63 came out, the gap narrowed quite a bit as Mercedes-Benz/AMG gets pretty aggressive with their facelifts (e.g., the C63 received a new suspension, transmission, "Agility Select," etc.).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Year's_End View Post
I'd say it's a well accomplished car that is better measured on its intangibles rather than objective paper stats. To be honest, my time with a facelifted model is minimal but I've had plenty of experience with the MY08-11 version. Personally, the engine's a dime piece; the transmission is completely mediocre.
I agree that the MCT is mediocre when compared to fantastic transmissions like the M-DCT and the PDK.

However, in the abstract, it is actually a pretty good transmission (100-millisecond shifts). It is very smooth and proficient in all of the automatic modes. Downshifts could definitely be improved in M mode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by r3dbimmer89 View Post
M3 is a review that I am excitingly waiting for. A true apples to apples comparison. Both will be turbo charged with EPS etc.
Agreed. The W205 will likely produce 476 horsepower in standard trim whereas the "S" model will receive 510 horsepower. Both cars are rumored to have around 480-495 lb-ft of torque (thanks to the turbos).
__________________
Current: '23 G20 M Sport 330i
Current: '20 X253 GLC300 SUV
Gone: '20 W205 C43 Sedan
Gone: '18 W205 C43 Sedan
Gone: '13 W204 C63 Sedan
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 02:52 PM   #36
Yay-Z
Shifting to Top Gear
Yay-Z's Avatar
United_States
40
Rep
556
Posts

Drives: F10 M5/E70 X5
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Houston, TX

iTrader: (0)

C63 is a beast man. Remember driving it at a Benz event a couple of years ago. Just the sound made me love it.
__________________
2015 F10 M5 CP
2013 E70 X5
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 02:58 PM   #37
b0bab0i
Major
24
Rep
1,033
Posts

Drives: 03 TiAG z4 3.0i w/ hardtop
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gthal View Post
The C63, in general, is an amazing car IMO. If it had a different transmission (a true DCT) that didn't overheat at the track, I would probably still own mine today.
They finally fixed it. They released an update "cooling" package that uses black series oil coolers, but you have to purchase it from the dealer.
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 03:00 PM   #38
scutts
Second Lieutenant
10
Rep
229
Posts

Drives: Jet Black E92M 6mt
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Queens, NY

iTrader: (3)

It looks like the particular C63 is cheaper in Australia. Where they talk about $10k difference is between M3 and M4 in Australia. It's interesting to know that M3 and C63 are much more expensive car in Australia... There's barely any difference in dollar value.. (1.06)

Having said that, this is a win #2 in comparo for W204 C63... Sad for the M division.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powaup View Post
I get that the C63 amg edition 507 is a great car and has the best hand built V8 engine but is it that good that even with a crappy automatic transmission it's better than an M4?

I'm obviously bias because I own an M4 and have never driven a C63 but I feel that the final result of the C63 wining the comparison is unfair when the M4 wins in suspension, breaking, transmission, price($10k less), technology and fuel consumption
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 03:23 PM   #39
CarlosM4
Lieutenant
Brazil
399
Rep
507
Posts

Drives: C63 AMG
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Brazil

iTrader: (0)

I am a C63 owner, looking to switch my car. My car is virtually sold, and as I love the M4's mean yet purposed look and cabin, I want to purchase one. As in Brazil not only has the car not arrived yet, but very few people which own cars like this go to forums, to express their opinions, which is a shame, as no one actually gets to know everything about the car before buying it.

I have owned an E92 M3 2009 Black. I barely used it, yet I can say it is a hella of a car. I switched in 2011 to a brand new Audi RS5. Good car, yet not the most fun, due to the Quattro and electronic interference. Then I moved from the RS5 to a C63 in 2013, and boom, I quickly found a car to fall in love with, yet as time goes by, new tech and design comes, therefore it is hard to admit it, but I am going to say goodbye to the Merc, especially as the M4 grow on to me, in a way I certainly did not expect.

What I can say is from these three "old" versions
C63 LCI 2013
RS5 2011
M3 2009

Best tranny: RS5
Best steering: C63
Best cabin: C63
Best engine: C63
Best handling: M3
Best gadgets: RS5
Best suspension: M3
Best noise: C63
Best looks: M3
Best traction: RS5
Best body control: M3
Best car for DD use: C63

This is just a simple comparo not looking into any depth. What I can say from experience is the C63 AMG LCI, is a huge improvement from the first 2008 to come out. Not only has the car become a better DD, as the suspension has gotten better damping, as the car become much better handling due to the diference in camber, and the addition of new Agility System dampers made the whole package change. I am still not sure of what to do.
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 03:26 PM   #40
onatuesday
Captain
157
Rep
965
Posts

Drives: Hyundai
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: TX

iTrader: (0)

Feels like people are swayed way too easily by editorial reviews (otherwise known as the opinion of one person).

When the M car loses, everyone is suddenly quick to praise the other competitor (C63 507/911S is AMAZING) or claim it's an unfair comparison (Jaguar F-type costs more, Corvette is a 2 seater, M3 isn't a pure sports car, how can you compare the two!???). Both of these frame of minds, seem self-serving in that they are more of an excuse for the M3/M4.

Yet when the M car wins (or the M car is reviewed in isolation), it's ermagherd! ///M car for life, BMW is the best! Corvettes are ugly! AMG, Audi, Lexus or anyone else don't even comes close!!!

In the past, M cars won more often than not because M cars provided the ULTIMATE DRIVING experience/machine for the driver regardless of what the stat sheet read. Now it seems that M cars win or lose in spite of the DRIVING connection/feel. This was the case with the F10, the F3X and now the F8X. This doesn't mean the M car isn't great, but IMO it does mean that you would no longer buy a M car because it delivers the ULTIMATE DRIVING MACHINE (relative to its peers). BMW needs a new slogan.

All that said I am eager to see how the M car stacks up against the competition in the Motortrend Best Driver's Car competition which is less about outright track times and more about "driving experience/feel." If it wins that or comes in top 3 then I'll bow down.
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 03:42 PM   #41
DieGrüneHölle
Colonel
1309
Rep
2,787
Posts

Drives: M
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: bmw

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powaup View Post
so it's that awesome of a car huh, would you say it's a collector?
Yes the 507 edition would be a keeper for sure.
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 03:44 PM   #42
Alex07M3
Banned
82
Rep
2,688
Posts

Drives: E92 M3, Evo X MR, A4 Allroad
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Gatineau

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls
Quote:
Originally Posted by r3dbimmer89 View Post
I do agree that maybe the W204 C63 and E9X M3 feel a little more "special" than the F8X but this isn't really apples to apples here. Everything they love about the C63 will be gone next year in the W205 version minus the mighty V8. But even then, it will be turbo charged so you're not going to get that pure "unfiltered noise" nor that instant throttle response.

The W205 C63 versus the F80 M3 is a review that I am excitingly waiting for. A true apples to apples comparison. Both will be turbo charged with EPS etc.
+1. These are all great cars but reviewers do a terrible job of putting things into context. I remember reading a few comparisons between the RS5 and F3X M3/M4 (with the RS5 winning for obvious reasons...) and the reviewer acted like this was a next-gen Audi and how this was the route Audi was taking while BMW took the electric-steering + turbo route because they wanted to.

It's one thing to express your opinion that the current RS5 is made to compete with the F8X M3/M4 because they're on the same product cycle and another thing to express your opinion that the RS5 is better than the F8X M3/M4 today because it's still using "old" tech with old rules and regulations knowing and explaining that what is currently in the RS5 will likely be gone in the next one.
Are you saying that BMW did'nt wanted to have a turbo engine + electric steering but they were forced to!!? :
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 03:46 PM   #43
DieGrüneHölle
Colonel
1309
Rep
2,787
Posts

Drives: M
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: bmw

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Small Yellow View Post
Not to argue with you but thats also the reason why many of us don't buy the GTR because it distracts the driving feel. Yes it is fast, but it doesn't give you the same soulful feeling that, say, a GT3 RS would give you. Personally I would much rather have a car that brings me more excitement rather than a car that is fast because when will we ever drive a car to its limit for it to matter? And if say we track it, I am sure most of us don't have the ability to come close to what the car is capable of.
The reason the C63 was picked in this article and by Steve Sutcliffe was due to it having "soul". Your GTR analogy doesn't fit here.

"The C63 is possibly the most characterful, connected new car on the market, and while it remains a mighty beast, in its final incarnation it is far from untamed.

Every tester walked away from it enamoured by just how special it makes you feel, from its bombastic engine to every control that talks to you, wherever you’re driving it and at whatever speed. It’s exactly enough to make you forgive its old cabin and hard ride."
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 03:53 PM   #44
BigMacSmallFries
First Lieutenant
123
Rep
353
Posts

Drives: '19 M5C 911 Turbo F430 GT3 RS
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: N/A

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ybbiz34 View Post

The LCI C63 is actually faster around the 'ring than the E9X M3. The LCI C63 turned in a time of 8:01 whereas the E92 turned in a time of 8:05.

http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife.html

When the E9X M3 debuted, it was a step ahead of the C63. When the LCI C63 came out, the gap narrowed quite a bit as Mercedes-Benz/AMG gets pretty aggressive with their facelifts (e.g., the C63 received a new suspension, transmission, "Agility Select," etc.).

No s**t Sherlock! lol

Don't take everything you read literally. It's obvious I mean it in the context of a better driver's car.

The E92 ripped apart the C63 in most comparison tests. Now all of sudden the C63 is better? I hope the competition package in the MY2016 is extensive, but I doubt it.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:46 AM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST