Camber plates and Sway bar

[HuskyBMW]

So I typically go to 3-4 HPDE's a year and my M3 is my DD. Looking to improve handling without doing a major suspension swap. A well respected local shop recommended starting with front camber plates and sway bar. They feel that would make quite a bit of difference. What is everyone else's opinion on this matter. Has anyone actually done this? Just not sure if it is worth spending a bunch of $$$ on a new suspension set up considering the amount of times I actually track the car. Thanks for any feedback.

[Brasko]

You do not need that for 3-4 HPDE's a year. I've done more than that in season and still don't have camber plates or upgrades sway bars. I'd save your $$$ and invest in driver's school before going that far. The value you will get from that will be worth much more than what a "respected shop feels would make a difference."

Keep in mind...Our vehicles are designed to be dual purpose. Track/Daily driver is in M3/4 DNA. The OEM parts are designed to reciprocate this. Unless you are competing avidly, upgrading the F8X suspension platform will get you minimal results.

[CanAutM3]

If you want to save on tires and are willing to cope with increasd NVH, I'd just go with the camber plates. However, at 3-4 days a year, tire wear might not be such an issue.

I'd skip the swaybars altogether, it is far from being the first mod the F8X needs. While stiffer sway bars can improve the handling responsivness, they also make the car more skittish over bumps and can in fact reduce total grip. The stock suspension is plenty good as it is.

[m4282]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

If you want to save on tires and are willing to cope with increasd NVH, I'd just go with the camber plates. However, at 3-4 days a year, tire wear might not be such an issue.

I'd skip the swaybars altogether, it is far from being the first mod the F8X needs. While stiffer sway bars can improve the handling responsivness, they also make the car more skittish over bumps and can in fact reduce total grip. The stock suspension is plenty good as it is.

But perhaps this is where the adjustable sways from dinan would be helpful as they can even "soften" up if needed to adjust for other areas of the suspension geometry that may have been modified.

[M3Tooner]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

If you want to save on tires and are willing to cope with increasd NVH, I'd just go with the camber plates. However, at 3-4 days a year, tire wear might not be such an issue.

Why would tire wear be less of an issue for someone only doing 3-4 track days a year? 3-4 track days may be all it takes to cord the outside shoulder if he runs the stock tires. Perhaps you are assuming he can daily drive on the same tires and even out the wear on public roads?

How many track days does your tires normally last you? Before and after you had your adjustable camber plates?

[HP Autosport]

Camber plates would be a good upgrade as you can go back to the stock settings when you are not at the track. Depending on the track you can destroy your front tires in one day without camber plates.

Anti roll bars will reduce the overall mechanical grip and they are a lot more money installed.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by M3Tooner

Why would tire wear be less of an issue for someone only doing 3-4 track days a year? 3-4 track days may be all it takes to cord the outside shoulder if he runs the stock tires. Perhaps you are assuming he can daily drive on the same tires and even out the wear on public roads?

How many track days does your tires normally last you? Before and after you had your adjustable camber plates?

It mostly depends on the experience level and tires used.

I am a fairly advanced driver (been tracking for over 20 years) and I use a lot of slip angle, which is quite tough for street tires. I corded my MPSS on the outer shoulders in just one three day track event, but the tires were still plenty good for street use. More resistant tires such as RE71R or AD08R can last much longer, especially if they are not pushed as hard.

I am not recommending against camber plates, just to ponder that, if one is a at the beginner/intermediate level and runs more aggressive tires than the PSS, camber plates might not be a must for 2-4 track days a year.

I should have been clearer.

[HuskyBMW]

Thanks for all the reply's. I do have wheel/tire track set up with re71's. They alone seemed to make a pretty big difference I felt. The last instructor I had before moving up to intermediate recommended upgrading my brakes and felt like that would give me a good bang for my buck. This same shop is recommending Stop Tech sport brakes. They said they aren't as good as more aggressive track pads but better than stock. Anybody have experience with these?

[bd307]

Originally Posted by HuskyBMW

Thanks for all the reply's. I do have wheel/tire track set up with re71's. They alone seemed to make a pretty big difference I felt. The last instructor I had before moving up to intermediate recommended upgrading my brakes and felt like that would give me a good bang for my buck. This same shop is recommending Stop Tech sport brakes. They said they aren't as good as more aggressive track pads but better than stock. Anybody have experience with these?

Since you have a set of track wheels and tires, might as well get a set of race brake pads. You do not need big brakes now if that is what you mean.

Should be good enough for you to advance your skills quite a while.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by HuskyBMW

Thanks for all the reply's. I do have wheel/tire track set up with re71's. They alone seemed to make a pretty big difference I felt. The last instructor I had before moving up to intermediate recommended upgrading my brakes and felt like that would give me a good bang for my buck. This same shop is recommending Stop Tech sport brakes. They said they aren't as good as more aggressive track pads but better than stock. Anybody have experience with these?

The stock pads are indeed not adequate for track use. I have been happily running Pagid RS29

It's not clear in your post, but I hope that your shop is not recommending to upgrade more than the pads, because that's all the F8X needs in terms of brakes.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by HuskyBMW

Thanks for all the reply's. I do have wheel/tire track set up with re71's. They alone seemed to make a pretty big difference I felt. The last instructor I had before moving up to intermediate recommended upgrading my brakes and felt like that would give me a good bang for my buck. This same shop is recommending Stop Tech sport brakes. They said they aren't as good as more aggressive track pads but better than stock. Anybody have experience with these?

With a good set of pads, lines and high temp fluid you should be able to enjoy HPDE or most track days without brake fade. RS29 is by far the most popular track pad for the F8x to date.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by HP Autosport

With a good set of pads, lines and high temp fluid you should be able to enjoy HPDE or most track days without brake fade. RS29 is by far the most popular track pad for the F8x to date.

IMO there is no need for upgraded brake lines. Quite the contrary actually, I've seen too many aftermarket lines fail at the track .

Hi-temp fluid is a good precaution, but not a fundamental necessity IMO. I have been tracking on the stock BMW fluid for the last 16 years and never had an issue. As long as you flush once a year at the start of the season.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

IMO there is no need for upgraded brake lines. Quite the contrary actually, I've seen too many aftermarket lines fail at the track .

Hi-temp fluid is a good precaution, but not a fundamental necessity IMO. I have been tracking on the stock BMW fluid for the last 16 years and never had an issue. As long as you flush once a year at the start of the season.

The common failure are mostly installation or user error. Many failed lines are cause by a slightest twist in the line that can introduce tension. This tension can multiply as the suspension moves up and town or wheels turn left to right. Allowing the brake caliper to hang by the SS line is also not a good idea although I often see it done at the track when people are changing their brake pads in a hurry. Not properly routing the lines can cause chafing by tires or other suspension components and eventually sever the line. Not to mention many SS lines out there with lower quality materials that aren't safe to be on a car to begin with.

That said, a lot of the upgrades aren't necessary, but some people are harder on brakes than others. These upgrades will certainly give them a bigger cushion before the limit is reached and allow more time to enjoy their HPDE or track day.

[HuskyBMW]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the feedback. The Shop was only talking about upgrading pads. After hearing everyone's thoughts, I may just stick with upgrading brake pads for now. If I ever get to the point where I am tracking more than 3-4 times per year then maybe the other upgrades may be worth the $$$.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by HuskyBMW

Thanks guys, I appreciate the feedback. The Shop was only talking about upgrading pads. After hearing everyone's thoughts, I may just stick with upgrading brake pads for now. If I ever get to the point where I am tracking more than 3-4 times per year then maybe the other upgrades may be worth the $$$.

Excellent starting point. You can always add other upgrades as needed.

[C-Mu]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

If you want to save on tires and are willing to cope with increasd NVH, I'd just go with the camber plates. However, at 3-4 days a year, tire wear might not be such an issue.

I'd skip the swaybars altogether, it is far from being the first mod the F8X needs. While stiffer sway bars can improve the handling responsivness, they also make the car more skittish over bumps and can in fact reduce total grip. The stock suspension is plenty good as it is.

Sorry if I missed this in another thread but can you elaborate on increased NVH with your camber plates? It's been a while since you installed em and I'm curious on your feedback so far.
Thanks!

[mikex25]

I'm curious myself too, I plan to get ground control camber plates but scared of the increase noise.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by C-Mu

Sorry if I missed this in another thread but can you elaborate on increased NVH with your camber plates? It's been a while since you installed em and I'm curious on your feedback so far.
Thanks!

It is slighly more but nothing that is unbearable. The benefits greatly overshadow the slight increase n NVH IMO.

[MaX PL]

Originally Posted by mikex25

I'm curious myself too, I plan to get ground control camber plates but scared of the increase noise.

what sort of noise do you expect from camber plates?

[mikex25]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

It is slighly more but nothing that is unbearable. The benefits greatly overshadow the slight increase n NVH IMO.

Is the nvh more pronounced when going over bumps? After my drop of Dinan sleeve kit my front negative camber is uneven and I wanna remedy this.

[mikex25]

Originally Posted by MaX PL

what sort of noise do you expect from camber plates?

Clunking noises, worried about our cars sounding broken

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by mikex25

Is the nvh more pronounced when going over bumps? After my drop of Dinan sleeve kit my front negative camber is uneven and I wanna remedy this.

There is simply more Noise, Vibration and Harshness transmitted in general. I am not quite sure how to describe it otherwise. I don't feel it is much worse over medium sized bumps but there is more NVH over small ripple bumps. The GC camber plates also require the installation of new (supplied) bump stops and those can lead to harsh crashing over certain types of bumps.