Next Level Auto Brokers
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Forum > BMW M3 (F80) and BMW M4 (F82) General Forum

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      04-19-2014, 01:41 PM   #89
JS919
First Lieutenant
JS919's Avatar
United_States
97
Rep
380
Posts

Drives: M3 CS
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Henderson, NV

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2018 BMW M3 CS  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
You could always just keep your E92 M.
Appreciate 0
      04-19-2014, 01:44 PM   #90
ozinaldo
Brigadier General
ozinaldo's Avatar
Portugal
115
Rep
3,070
Posts

Drives: 1M
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Lisbon, Portugal

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
How is this in any way or form good news? We already know that the car is lighter than the E90 M3, that is not news. In fact we have official weight numbers in all standards. All pointing to the same 80kg / 176lbs weight savings over the old car. Now we have real world numbers pointing to less than half of that with similar equipment. Very disappointing. Granted there is still question marks over the overall equipment level and real weight of the new DCT vs the old.
Absolutely! This is simply negative news because it shows that most fundamental part of BMW's advertisement about the new F8X was, well, mostly advertisement! I am not really surprised though, never really was convinced totally that such a big car would weigh significantly less than the smaller outgoing model; this is more in line with I expected: a slightly bigger car with slightly less weight due to some new technology, which would be good enough if BMW would not speak of very different numbers from the begining and talk about the effect of new weight saving technology. Of course people will get frustrated and rightfully so, it is never cool to learn that you were played and manipulated a bit when you are evaluating buying a new car, and not just any car but a reference among automobile enthusiasts.

As a 1M owner it was a point that I regularly used in many posts elsewhere before to 'defend' the new F8X despite my strong dislike of big cars; I kept on saying that such a noticeably larger car which could swallow the 1M comes with essentially identical weight of the 1M, this is great progress etc....which appears to be not so true; so I ask myself that since I can easily get my car to the level of the power of S55 (which is really no different than a FBO N54 type of power) why would I consider 'upgrading' to a much bigger, and noticeably heavier car with a power that is easily attainable if I wanted or needed to have it? So, this hurts the image of new F8X at least for me and at a very important point, the issue of weight. I can still buy it because it is overall a good package and has more refinement and practicality (F80) than the 1M but now I returned back thinking that I would maybe loose too much by getting rid of the 1M.

Just because some people who already put their orders are too keen to keep their enthusiasm up doesn't mean that we should all keep a blind eye on certain new data like this one; this is not a good one! Simple as that. Should anyone cancel their orders or call their lawyers, that probably would be a huge overkill and a bit stupid but there is something here for re-consideration especially for certain people who already have a good or even a great car. We care for contradictions in official statements and what appears to be false advertisement, in my opinion everyone should.
__________________
"The mark of a great car is one whose overall competence exceeds what you should expect from its individual components and the 1M does just that", Chris Harris.
BMW 1M-SOLD-: TECH: Evolve Race+N55mids, Evolve IC, Michelin PSS, ER cp, aFe filter, CDVx, Vorshlag camber plates, BMS OCC EXTERIOR: trunk spoiler, blacklines, black grills, IND goodies INTERIOR: Alcantara steering wheel, steel pedals, custom mats, MPower e-brake.

Last edited by ozinaldo; 04-19-2014 at 01:51 PM..
Appreciate 0
      04-19-2014, 01:47 PM   #91
gmd2003
Colonel
gmd2003's Avatar
352
Rep
2,176
Posts

Drives: 2014 CP M6 and 2006 VT 525 Z4M
Join Date: May 2012
Location: South Carolina

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing View Post
No axe to grind. Yes it's still very heavy compared to a 911 or c7, but I never thought it would be that light. But heavy compared to what everyone thought is more what I meant. They all had bmw ///marketing pulling wool over their eyes. This is the same thing they did with the e9x m3. It looks like there will be some weight loss for 6mt users but BMWS manual are garbage. After owning a 6mt e92 m3 and now dct I won't drive a bmw manual again. A dct m4 looks like it will not have any benefits of weight over my e92 m3 dct. I guess more than anything it's pretty bad when they've employed so much use of cf and other light parts yet shows really now savings over the outgoing car. Just imagine how much it would weigh without all that stuff! Lol
You could always just keep your E92 M.
I think the reason myself and others are upset is that for the M4 DCT vs the E92 DCT the weights are essentially the same ~3600 pounds . I'm certain the new car will be an improvement in many areas , I know my F13 M6 is despite gaining weight vs the E63 M6 . The problem is BMW marketing has been spouting BS for the past year about starting the CF revolution , significant weight savings , etc . I certainly wouldn't jump out of an E92 if I still owned one for the F80 bc all the excitement I had for the car was the promise of better dynamics from significant weight loss . That simply hasn't occurred . Some of us are track enthusiasts and 300 lbs difference in weight really is that big of a deal in how a car feels .
My two cents
Appreciate 0
      04-19-2014, 01:49 PM   #92
solstice
Major General
5457
Rep
7,037
Posts

Drives: 2015 M3 6MT
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JS919 View Post
The only official information BMW has released that is specific to the F8x sold in the USA is on BMWUSA.com. On that webpage the weight is listed at 3540lbs for a 6MT. Looking at the weight shown in the original post on this thread I'd say that BMW has been fairly accurate.
No. The curb weight listed on bmwusa.com has historically been with a driver and luggage as specified by the US standard. The weight without driver is supposed to be the DIN weight of 33XX + some extra US equipment. Now we find out that it looks more like the US weight without driver. However I find all the weights by this facility highly suspect. The E90 M3 is not close to 4000 lbs with driver as indicated here. Something is fishy here, maybe this system adds the standard weight for driver and luggage to the measure? I don't trust it one bit and with hold off any disappointment.
Appreciate 0
      04-19-2014, 01:55 PM   #93
Dave2011M3
Private First Class
8
Rep
129
Posts

Drives: 2013 E92 M3 MR/BLK ZCP
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Playa Del Rey, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malek@MRF View Post
My E92 6MT last time I weighed it with 19" wheels and the stock brakes was 3530 lbs.
Mine was 3577 with moonroof...it did have nav and just base hifi.

Dave
__________________
2013 BMW M3 E92 Melbourne Red/Blk ZCP 6MT
2011 BMW M3 E92 MR/Blk ZCP
2007 Porsche 997.1S
2004 E46 M3 Imola Red/Blk
Appreciate 0
      04-19-2014, 01:58 PM   #94
JS919
First Lieutenant
JS919's Avatar
United_States
97
Rep
380
Posts

Drives: M3 CS
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Henderson, NV

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2018 BMW M3 CS  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
No. The curb weight listed on bmwusa.com has historically been with a driver and luggage as specified by the US standard.
Would you care to share where you found this information, that on top of a full tank of fuel luggage is also included? I drive quite often, but rarely do I have luggage. I'm not sure why that would be included? What is the "standard" for driver weight in this formula? There is an argument brewing here over give or take a hundred pounds. That is about the difference between me and my girlfriend. So I think if the driver is part of the curb weight equation in the "US standard" it should be published.

Or, you are just completely wrong... I'm going with this option.
Appreciate 0
      04-19-2014, 02:00 PM   #95
Mahzari
Captain
Iran
57
Rep
743
Posts

Drives: poorly
Join Date: May 2010
Location: California

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdizzle View Post
Didn't the F30 lose about 100lbs over the e90 whiling getting larger?
Like for like, the F30 weighs 77lbs less than the E90.

Personally I think the weight is very good but I am upset BMW would quote a lower number (3300lbs), only to have it tip the scales at 150-200lbs more than previously stated.

But if we're talking about companies that fudge curb weight figures...

Aventador Dry Weight: 3,472 lbs (Source, Lamborghini)
Aventador Curb Weight: 4,109 lbs (Source, Motor Trend 2012)
Appreciate 0
      04-19-2014, 02:00 PM   #96
Black Gold
Major General
590
Rep
5,396
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Texas

iTrader: (15)

Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
How is this in any way or form good news? We already know that the car is lighter than the E90 M3, that is not news. In fact we have official weight numbers in all standards. All pointing to the same 80kg / 176lbs weight savings over the old car. Now we have real world numbers pointing to less than half of that with similar equipment. Very disappointing. Granted there is still question marks over the overall equipment level and real weight of the new DCT vs the old.
This
Appreciate 0
      04-19-2014, 02:03 PM   #97
Axis AC
New Member
15
Rep
29
Posts

Drives: MCoupe, X5
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapper_M3 View Post
For the most accurate A-B comparison, I agree it can only help to use the same scale. With that said, these certified scales (not sure what Axis of Oversteer was using, but I would hope it's accurate as well) are regularly calibrated to be accurate within 10 lbs.

Just to throw more data into the mix, I recently weighed my E92 M3 (Competition Package, 6MT, but all other non-individual options except for Premium Sound) with ALL fluids (I was neurotic about this; I even filled up the windshield wiper fluid to the brim, topped off gasoline, checked brake fluid--although there's no conceivable reason why I would have lost any--and I was 3/4 to max on engine oil). Hell, I even added back the car manual/owner's guide and the cigarette lighter plugs because they came with the car. I weighed in, without driver, at 3590 lbs on a CAT scale in Olympia, WA.
I hope you washed and vacuumed carefully!
__________________
Appreciate 0
      04-19-2014, 02:07 PM   #98
solstice
Major General
5457
Rep
7,037
Posts

Drives: 2015 M3 6MT
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JS919 View Post
Would you care to share where you found this information, that on top of a full tank of fuel luggage is also included? I drive quite often, but rarely do I have luggage. I'm not sure why that would be included? What is the "standard" for driver weight in this formula? There is an argument brewing here over give or take a hundred pounds. That is about the difference between me and my girlfriend. So I think if the driver is part of the curb weight equation in the "US standard" it should be published.

Or, you are just completely wrong... I'm going with this option.
Read the sticky about weight standards.
Appreciate 0
      04-19-2014, 02:17 PM   #99
clbmw
Major
631
Rep
1,483
Posts

Drives: 320d M135i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Str8m3
Do all of you guys who are so concerned with the cars weight eat nothing but celery to keep your own bodyweight down?
Appreciate 0
      04-19-2014, 02:29 PM   #100
DieGrüneHölle
Colonel
1309
Rep
2,787
Posts

Drives: M
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: bmw

iTrader: (0)

The actual weight really is irrelevant. Just the fact that BMW has to use these kinds of marketing tactics, touting some arbitrary 3300lbs weight. The new M3/M4 is going to be a phenomenal car. Flase advertising only leads to let downs and ammunition for haters.
Appreciate 0
      04-19-2014, 02:34 PM   #101
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
21105
Rep
20,741
Posts

Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by signes View Post
What was the weight penalty for the DCT in the E9x?
According to the BMW DIN weights it was 45lb on the E9X

It is supposed to be 89lb on the F8X.
Appreciate 0
      04-19-2014, 02:37 PM   #102
jaehshim
Major
jaehshim's Avatar
United_States
489
Rep
1,374
Posts

Drives: E90
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: NE

iTrader: (3)

lol what a bad comparison
don't wanna be anal about it but MT to DCT weight?
come on, we know all the numbers
i know my E90 6MT doesn't weight over 3600lb...

once again, proves another marketing part of BMW,
the truth is F80 is not anywhere "lighter" than the e90
__________________
Appreciate 0
      04-19-2014, 02:50 PM   #103
Zayken
Private
United Arab Emirates
27
Rep
99
Posts

Drives: IX1 30e / f40 118i
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dubai

iTrader: (0)

People wait first, then judge .

Bmw made a mistake in this case allowing its marketing department to announce numbers below 1500 kg .

If they have made a total mistake with that product , summer is very close and we will all see then.
Appreciate 0
      04-19-2014, 02:53 PM   #104
FogCityM3
Colonel
FogCityM3's Avatar
497
Rep
2,400
Posts

Drives: M3 (E90) & Porsche GT3 RS
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (0)

So this pretty much confirms all the red flags that several have pointed/called out many months ago (in some cases years ago). The weight info dribbled out by BMW on the M3/M4 seemed unrealistic, non-comparable apples-to-apples, partially released (curb or DIN weight), provided given different configurations (base weight vs "comparably equipped"). Basically obfuscating the facts as much as one could while providing some veneer of massive weight loss so as to create a nice tagline. Lo and behold, once the facts come out, the actual weight loss is much less than the hype. Disappointing as it is, but at least there is validation to the saying that if things seem to be too good to be true and not really corroborated by evidence and common sense, then they probably are.
Appreciate 0
      04-19-2014, 02:54 PM   #105
JS919
First Lieutenant
JS919's Avatar
United_States
97
Rep
380
Posts

Drives: M3 CS
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Henderson, NV

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2018 BMW M3 CS  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Read the sticky about weight standards.
Here is what the sticky says about curb weight.

Summary:
USA:
1. Curb weight ( Inconsistent reporting, with or without driver, unknown and inconsistent equipment level ).

Summary of definitions:
US Curb Weight:
Weight of car with fluids and fuel at 100% as well as weight of any option expected to be in more than 33% of vehicles sold. Driver not included in US legal definition, but usually included in manufacturers public figures.

Furthermore from a recent interview with a BMW product manger, his explanation of US curb weight:
The way the US curb weight is measured includes full fluids in the car, all standard equipment for US market and all options that are expected to be equipped on more than one-thirds of M3/M4 sold.

Don't see any mention of luggage, or for that matter that a driver is included in BMW's calculations.

Please explain to me how my previous post is wrong?
Appreciate 0
      04-19-2014, 03:06 PM   #106
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
7506
Rep
19,370
Posts

Drives: No BMW for now
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamspeed View Post
The weights for the e92 seem to vary from ~3500 to ~3700 without driver. Isn't it reasonable that the f80 could weigh between ~3400 to ~3600 without driver?
Note that the 3562 lb. example car that is the topic of this thread does not have DCT nor sunroof, and probably lacks other options as well. It seems to me that when configured with the heaviest options, a 3700lb F80 may very well be a possibility.
Appreciate 0
      04-19-2014, 03:10 PM   #107
FogCityM3
Colonel
FogCityM3's Avatar
497
Rep
2,400
Posts

Drives: M3 (E90) & Porsche GT3 RS
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (0)

Seriously, think the best use of incremental dollars is to enhance what I already have vs looking to buy the new model. For $12k, can get a light bbk and lightweight wheels which save close to ~70 lbs in unsprung weight (with multiplicative effects on weight and feel). The E9x gen are keepers!


Quote:
Originally Posted by 325rider View Post
My previous statements on this forum have been confirmed. I said, when I see a STRIPPER M3/M4 weigh in the 3,3xx weight range with some type of fuel I'll be impressed.

My stripper e90 weighs in around 3500 lbs with light fuel so at the end of the day, props to BMW for bring a more complete and lighter package, but I knew in the REAL WORLD the e9x M3 guys concerned with weight (few options, test pipes, light wheels/exhaust) would have realistically no disadvantage (disadvantage being a <100 lbs weight difference)

Good shit for e9x M owners. Also good for the new Ms because at least weight was lowered, which really is great
Appreciate 0
      04-19-2014, 03:12 PM   #108
ybbiz34
Brigadier General
ybbiz34's Avatar
670
Rep
4,959
Posts

Drives: 2023 330i M Sport
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
I'll say it, disappointing and surprising.
I wish we would've wagered on our estimates.

You have to admit, you gave me a pretty hard time for my estimate of 3,500+ lbs.

Someone with an LCI W204 C63 sedan just weighed his car and it came in at 3,860 lbs (1/4 tank of fuel, no driver). The W205 C63 is anticipated to lose at least 220 lbs due to the use of high strength aluminum, the new motor (4.0L biturbo), CCBs, etc. I expect it will weigh in the 3,650-700 lb range (all fluids, 1/4 tank of gas, no driver).

Note: I'm not that disappointed with the results because they're what I was expecting the entire time. It's still progress. And the upside is the car will have a bit more power, more torque, etc.
__________________
Current: '23 G20 M Sport 330i
Current: '20 X253 GLC300 SUV
Gone: '20 W205 C43 Sedan
Gone: '18 W205 C43 Sedan
Gone: '13 W204 C63 Sedan
Appreciate 0
      04-19-2014, 03:16 PM   #109
Eau Rouge
Major
Eau Rouge's Avatar
United_States
140
Rep
1,242
Posts

Drives: 2012 E92 M3
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Florida's Emerald Coast

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2012 BMW E92 M3  [9.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ybbiz34 View Post
I wish we would've wagered on our estimates.

You have to admit, you gave me a pretty hard time for my estimate of 3,500+ lbs.
You weren't the only one.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      04-19-2014, 03:28 PM   #110
Black Gold
Major General
590
Rep
5,396
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Texas

iTrader: (15)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ybbiz34 View Post
I wish we would've wagered on our estimates.

You have to admit, you gave me a pretty hard time for my estimate of 3,500+ lbs.

Someone with an LCI W204 C63 sedan just weighed his car and it came in at 3,860 lbs (1/4 tank of fuel, no driver). The W205 C63 is anticipated to lose at least 220 lbs due to the use of high strength aluminum, the new motor (4.0L biturbo), CCBs, etc. I expect it will weigh in the 3,650-700 lb range (all fluids, 1/4 tank of gas, no driver).
Let's see if merc is better about it's estimates than BMW

And like I said, they have never deviated from their normal weihjt estimates on any car until this gen. The e9x m3 fit into their claims as did the 1m.

So, I chose to believe them until proven otherwise. Unfortunately, it appears we have been proven otherwise.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
2015 m3 scale weight, f80 m3 real life weight, f80 m3 scale weight, f80 m3 weight scale, m3 f80 scale weight, scale weight f80 m3

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:50 AM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST