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      05-21-2014, 10:19 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
That's the only part that irritates me. How much time could be added for PSS? No one will be driving around on the street on Cups. Also, what tires was the E46 CSL Running back in 2002?
CSL was running Cup tires. "CRT" is wrong, the tires were PSS NOT Cup tires for the F80. It's in the article
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      05-21-2014, 10:21 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
7:50 is E46 CSL territory which is incredible... a comp pack car should even be lower.

A few questions;

1) Is this a legit feull Nordschleife time? Or is this BTG or some other part track time?
2) What tires and what driver?
3) Any video or real proof?

I feel like this is a rehash of one thing someone somewhere said and there is nothing to back it up.
The 7:50 time is a BMW test driver time (set both in the M3/4 and with various test drivers according to the article).

On june 13th, the next edition of Sport Auto is published and will have a Supertest of the F8x. That will probably be the first independently recorded and published Nürburgring time we will get for the F8x.

The Sport Auto time will also be directly comparable with the CSL time, since it's set on the same length of the track and by the same driver.
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      05-21-2014, 10:24 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW M3 CRT View Post

2) Tyres: Michelin Sport Cup (Semityres) / Drive. HvS

!
Incorrect. The F80 had street tires on, Michelin Pilot Super Sports.
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      05-21-2014, 10:25 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
That's the only part that irritates me. How much time could be added for PSS? No one will be driving around on the street on Cups. Also, what tires was the E46 CSL Running back in 2002?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl L View Post
CSL was running Cup tires. "CRT" is wrong, the tires were PSS NOT Cup tires for the F80. It's in the article
Exactly. The CSL ran on cup tires and the F8x is on PSS.

Although I believe CRT might have replied believing that it was the CSL times that was in question. Re-reading his reply makes me think he talks about the CSL, not the F8x time.
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      05-21-2014, 10:39 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
That's the only part that irritates me. How much time could be added for PSS? No one will be driving around on the street on Cups. Also, what tires was the E46 CSL Running back in 2002?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl L View Post
CSL was running Cup tires. "CRT" is wrong, the tires were PSS NOT Cup tires for the F80. It's in the article
Exactly. The CSL ran on cup tires and the F8x is on PSS.

Although I believe CRT might have replied believing that it was the CSL times that was in question. Re-reading his reply makes me think he talks about the CSL, not the F8x time.
Lets make sure that is the case. That would be incredible.
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      05-21-2014, 10:51 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
Exactly. The CSL ran on cup tires and the F8x is on PSS.

Although I believe CRT might have replied believing that it was the CSL times that was in question. Re-reading his reply makes me think he talks about the CSL, not the F8x time.
RIGHT !!!

Until now 7.50min ist only the Supertest time of the 2002 BMW M3 CSL !!!

The F8x runs without an doubt Michelin Pilot Super Sport ... same tyre as on the Alpina F30 B3, which doesn't perform well in "Supertest" on track - because of tyres and engine characteristic !
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      05-21-2014, 10:59 AM   #29
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I believe the E92 M3 GTS achieved a time of 7:48 on PS2 (or perhaps PSS, not sure), right?

CSL was impressive though, given that was ten-plus years ago.
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      05-21-2014, 11:10 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
I believe the E92 M3 GTS achieved a time of 7:48 on PS2 (or perhaps PSS, not sure), right?

CSL was impressive though, given that was ten-plus years ago.
The GTS shipped with Corsas and I believe that is what was used, but can't guarantee the latter. Those P-zeros are much less compromised than PSSs
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      05-21-2014, 11:15 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
CSL was impressive though, given that was ten-plus years ago.
No kidding. That's more than impressive. As a comparsion I think the 991 C2S is as fast as the 997 GT3 around the ring. The CSL is two generations and over a decade older than the M4...BMW really pulled out all stops when they created the CSL. Hopefully they will do something similar with an M4 GTS/CSL.
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      05-21-2014, 11:16 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
I believe the E92 M3 GTS achieved a time of 7:48 on PS2 (or perhaps PSS, not sure), right?

CSL was impressive though, given that was ten-plus years ago.
In the same magazine, they celebrate the 200th Supertest (a Porsche 918 Spyder is the 200th test car...).

As part of this they have done some comparisons/statistics on how the cars have evolved. They do a separate story on some brands, and has one article on BMW M3 supertests...

Nürburgring lap times:

E30 M3 - 08:50
E36 M3 SMG - 08:35
E46 M3 - 08:22 (Michelin Pilot Sport)
E46 M3 CSL - 7:50 (Michelin Sport Cup, semi slicks)
E92 M3 - 8:05 (Michelin Sport Cup +, semi slicks but better in the wet)
E92 M3 GTS - 07:49 (Pirelli P Zero Corsa)

The very first car to do the Supertest was the E36 M3 in 1997 (they did a Supertest of the E30 in 2010).

They write that considering the tires that was available 17 years ago, the E36 time is very respectable. And that the CSL's tires was awesome in the dry (the first production car to run on semi slicks), but that in the wet they were like playing russian roulet...

Last edited by Boss330; 05-21-2014 at 01:06 PM..
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      05-21-2014, 11:29 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
No kidding. That's more than impressive. As a comparsion I think the 991 C2S is as fast as the 997 GT3 around the ring. The CSL is two generations and over a decade older than the M4...BMW really pulled out all stops when they created the CSL. Hopefully they will do something similar with an M4 GTS/CSL.
I agree that the CSL was great (a friend had one and the doors alone were a thing of beauty, the sound off the scale), but it was poorly received by the buying public. It was half the cost of the GTS (which is priced ridiculously and yet sold out) and yet units just sat. I think it was because of the SMGII.

Second hand values for the low mileage CSLs were barely above those of the Regular E46 M3 in the UK around 2007. Had I been in the UK at the time I'd have snapped one up for 25 grand no doubt.
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      05-21-2014, 11:33 AM   #34
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      05-21-2014, 11:44 AM   #35
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CSL came with no AC or radio if I believe... The M3 GTS didn't even have a back seat.

The F80x Comp Pack M3 may be a monster if it goes under 7:50 on PSS.
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      05-21-2014, 11:49 AM   #36
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"“There are still good prospects to further put the icing on the cake from this engine” he explains, a thinly veiled message indicating upcoming higher performance models of the M3/M4."

This sounds promising. Hopefully they do something a little more significant for a comp pack this time.
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      05-21-2014, 11:50 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
In the same magazine, they celebrate the 200th Supertest (a Porsche 918 Spyder is the 200th test car...).

As part of this they have done some comparisons/statistics on how the cars have evolved. They do a separate story on some brands, and has one article on BMW M3 supertests...

Nürburgring lap times:

E30 M3 - 08:50
E36 M3 SMG - 08:35
E46 M3 - 08:22 (Michelin Pilot Sport)
E46 M3 CSL - 7:50 (Michelin Sport Cup, semi slicks)
E92 M3 - 8:05 (Michelin PSS)
E92 M3 GTS - 07:49 (Pirelli P Zero Corsa)

The very first car to do the Supertest was the E36 M3 in 1997 (they did a Supertest of the E30 in 2010).

They write that considering the tires that was available 17 years ago, the E36 time is very respectable. And that the CSL's tires was awesome in the dry (the first production car to run on semi slicks), but that in the wet they were like playing russian roulet...
Thank you for posting this and the translation.
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      05-21-2014, 11:51 AM   #38
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Thanks for translations. Seems like we have heard just about all that is to be said in these reviews. Now its just a matter of aggregating feedback and coming up with a consensus opinion on each of the metrics. Who will do it? Volunteers? Anyone..Anyone..Buehler...Anyone?
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      05-21-2014, 11:51 AM   #39
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If the showroom stock F80 m3 matches the e46 m3 CSL, which was basically track prepped and running a DOT track tire, that's just an amazing achievement.

P.s. Bear in mind that there are track prepped e36's that would probably run a 7:50 on the ring today, among other cars that with preparation can do that. To achieve it in a stock everyday car on stock tires is what impresses me.
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      05-21-2014, 11:57 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel
Thanks Boss.

7.50 is right in line with what many of us predicted. The future "ZCP" will be deep into 7.4x.
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      05-21-2014, 12:02 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
CSL came with no AC or radio if I believe... The M3 GTS didn't even have a back seat.

The F80x Comp Pack M3 may be a monster if it goes under 7:50 on PSS.
Great points!

Thanks for the translation and post, good read.
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      05-21-2014, 12:04 PM   #42
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Yes, the sound is different to the V8 but I have heard the sounds from the new M3 in person and it still sounds very nice. It's not the same as you hear in videos.
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      05-21-2014, 12:05 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zundefolge
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel
Thanks Boss.

7.50 is right in line with what many of us predicted. The future "ZCP" will be deep into 7.4x.
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I am certain it will be slower than 7:50 , in this article they are just repeating the BMW marketing line about 7:50 because that is 15 seconds faster than the E92 M3 . Lets just wait and see what it actually runs before we start popping champagne corks lol . It might be 7:58 , it might be 7:51 but the super test time is ALWAYS slower than what manufacturers claim . So it's unfair to compare other cars super test times with a quoted time . Just wait a month and we shall see what it is .
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      05-21-2014, 12:30 PM   #44
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I got the chance to see and sit in both cars at the DTM season opening in Hockenheim Ring May 4th, and gotta say that they both look fantastic and the race style seats felt well better than the out going M but then again I will not trade my S65 for it!!!
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