Calling NBT, Radio, TMC, RDS Experts. HELP!!!

[MSport_Jon]

Hello guys,


I recently ran into a problem with my US Spec F80. So i left a 16 oz soft drink which was filled half way in the trunk and while i was strapping my child to the child seat my wife closed the trunk for me, i forgot everything about it. I proceeded to plot our navigation and i could see TMC traffic updates at that time. When i got home i proceeded to pull out stuff from the trunk and i noticed the cup was tilted and empty. I inspected under liner of the trunk and removed the top liner and noticed the top liner was wet and the underliner was wet as well. i removed the underliner carpeted molded storage area and underneath it on the very bottom where there are 2 drain plugs, i saw some residue of the drink that was spilled. I dried everything up and inspected the Telematics module as well as the fuse junction box. No liquid was found near it not did it feel wet.

My TMC traffic update stopped working ever since and i am not sure if perhaps there are some more electronics there that got wet. I had updated the maps 2 weeks ago before this even and everything was working fine since until the day we found the spill.

As fas as i know TMC works from a alternative channel stream on radio signals and the radio seems ok. I do not not know what else to look. Any pointers from the experts. Is there any other place i have too look in? Modules, Fuses, cables.. not sure where else to look for...




I was thinking that besides the telematics box and the fuse box the next thing i could check for is item number 5 on the diagram. I am not sure where this is and perspective seems to point at the wheel well area or by the speaker area.

[MSport_Jon]

So i decided to scan the car using ISTA and i got some interesting behavior.

I deciced to call up functions on HU_H (NBT) and see what i could get. when calling up "switch on traffic reports" ISTA displays and error (see picture below) this also happens when calling "switch off traffic reports". Every other function on the list gets called successfully.



Also when these Traffic Functions are called under ISTA ECU functions, the TCB module throws the error below.



Im not sure why this error is there. my X3 does not have such error when calling up the same module functions.

[aboulfad]

Since you seem to use ISTA, did you check the "Details" and "System Context" tabs next to the fault display? Post the pics, check the frequency and healing counters and mileage.

You have everything you need in ISTA, wiring diagrams, fuse description and location, measure plans to further diagnose,... maybe also it's a coincidence! A pic of where you think the spill went would be helpful.

[MSport_Jon]

Originally Posted by aboulfad

Since you seem to use ISTA, did you check the "Details" and "System Context" tabs next to the fault display? Post the pics, check the frequency and healing counters and mileage.

You have everything you need in ISTA, wiring diagrams, fuse description and location, measure plans to further diagnose,... maybe also it's a coincidence! A pic of where you think the spill went would be helpful.

I use ISTA but im a beginner at it. Thanks for those pointers though. I will post pictures of the trunk.

[aboulfad]

Ok here's some more usueful tips for using ISTA. Use the text search, it's very handy. I searched for TCB, then I filtered for FUB (description), SSP(wiring), REP (repair), and click on the SSP doc for TCB, not only it shows the wiring, but pretty much everything in the wiring is hyperlinked. And if you click on the bottom "overview", you'll get docs, location, pin description,...

You need to identify the partner unit!

Happy hunting! FYI, this is fun, but once you diagnose what's broken, then what? Why not take it to the dealer, unless warranty in Germany is different than here... (in Canada it's bumper to bumper 4yrs/80000 km)

[MSport_Jon]

Originally Posted by aboulfad

Ok here's some more usueful tips for using ISTA. Use the text search, it's very handy. I searched for TCB, then I filtered for FUB (description), SSP(wiring), REP (repair), and click on the SSP doc for TCB, not only it shows the wiring, but pretty much everything in the wiring is hyperlinked. And if you click on the bottom "overview", you'll get docs, location, pin description,...

You need to identify the partner unit!

Happy hunting! FYI, this is fun, but once you diagnose what's broken, then what? Why not take it to the dealer, unless warranty in Germany is different than here... (in Canada it's bumper to bumper 4yrs/80000 km)

unfortunately i am in a "markets" crack. I can take it to the dealer here in Germany but most likely they will blame the TCB being out of "market" for proper operation. I am not sure if the TCB plays any role in the TMC-RDS problem. The only indication i have is when i test this function in NBT using ISTA it throws a communication error in TCB. When i do this on my X3 it performs the function correct althought the X3 has NBT whereas the M3 has NBT Evo so i am not sure if it is normal for the M3 to do this....

[aboulfad]

I have ARTTI, which require connected drive and obviously needs TCB. I don't know what TMS-RDS is, but RDS is strictly over the air FM feature, here we only get stupid info like weather, song info,...

Don't trust too much the ISTA ECU test functions, in some cases, it does give an error. Also often enough, there are bogus interface errors that have no consequence whatsoever...I'll try and do the same procedure as you did on my car. Focus on understanding the error details (read above) and learn the wiring path of TCB and figure out the partner unit. Writing posts here won't do much

[aboulfad]

OK I tried the same "Switch on Traffic Reports" and it worked on my car. So you've got homework to do in ISTA trying to figure out what hapenned !

[MSport_Jon]

Originally Posted by aboulfad

OK I tried the same "Switch on Traffic Reports" and it worked on my car. So you've got homework to do in ISTA trying to figure out what happened !

Damnit... and do you have NBT Evo or regular NBT?. I have regular NBT on my X3 and the function works fine. By the way, tremendous thanks for helping me out... everything you have posted so far has been very helpful.

So to explain a little bit of what TMC-RDS is, basically there are two radio station formats in Europe. Legacy FM radio which is very common everywhere here where the spread spectrum runs 100 khz vs the US that runs 200 khz in between stations and their RDS system has either an extended schema or just is utilized better than in the US where some information in the RDS system pertains to TMC which is Traffic monitoring Channel. The other is HD radio which is DAB in Europe and IBOC in the states. IBOC does not work in Europe an vice-versa.
There are discussions around where some say this is just additional info within RDS and some others say that it is an alternate channel and so TMC-RDS is not as fast in updates as RTTI but it is useful for big events and persistent dangers on the road (Objects on Road, Ice, blowups) and big events like huge accidents and events where a detour is advisable. They have something called TP (Traffic Programme) where your chosen media (ipod, USB, CD, mute) will get interrupted by the broadcasting radio station if the event is dangerous enough around your region. Very useful stuff. All codable.

[aboulfad]

Man, Europe is so ahead in many things... thanks for the detailed info, very useful this TMC/RDS (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_message_channel). So TMC is available here in 3 cities but only through paying services... what is widely supported is the 57khz sub-carrier RBDS.

I have HU-NBT2 (plain NBT) and the test routine said ok, but I didn't check what it actually did to that feature on my radio, I switched on and off. Pm me the ISTA logs (C:\Rheingold\logs) and Fasta data (C:\Rheingold\FASTAOut\*.fstdat) that correspond to when you did that function on your M and I'll take a look. Does any of your other TCB related functions work, like connected drive, SOS call using the overhead button, anything using the 3G/4G connection?

Also, there are many functions you can invoke to test the TCB from the ECU functions. If most of them work, then you can disregard that error, because if the TCB unit or ethernet wires were damaged from the spill, then I can't picture that just a feature isn't working... and TMC seems to be completely implemented in HU. The error talks about a partner unit, maybe that's where you need to look and trace the wiring from TCB, darn that must be the HU !

Maybe the spill did damage components or ETH wires, and you can't see it anymore because it dried as it moving down. One way to know is to test any data functionality that uses HU and TCB and you can try resetting both HU & TCB as a final measure.

Part 5 in your diagram is the Telematics Aerial 2 (E66a, E66*1B).

Btw, what was the soda drink, maybe depending on the chemical content it can affect different things

[MSport_Jon]

Originally Posted by aboulfad

Man, Europe is so ahead in many things... thanks for the detailed info, very useful this TMC/RDS (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_message_channel). So TMC is available here in 3 cities but only through paying services... what is widely supported is the 57khz sub-carrier RBDS.

I have HU-NBT2 (plain NBT) and the test routine said ok, but I didn't check what it actually did to that feature on my radio, I switched on and off. Pm me the ISTA logs (C:\Rheingold\logs) and Fasta data (C:\Rheingold\FASTAOut\*.fstdat) that correspond to when you did that function on your M and I'll take a look. Does any of your other TCB related functions work, like connected drive, SOS call using the overhead button, anything using the 3G/4G connection?

Also, there are many functions you can invoke to test the TCB from the ECU functions. If most of them work, then you can disregard that error, because if the TCB unit or ethernet wires were damaged from the spill, then I can't picture that just a feature isn't working... and TMC seems to be completely implemented in HU. The error talks about a partner unit, maybe that's where you need to look and trace the wiring from TCB, darn that must be the HU !

ill go ahead and pull the logs and place them in a onedrive share and send you the link... thanks again for the help!

Maybe the spill did damage components or ETH wires, and you can't see it anymore because it dried as it moving down. One way to know is to test any data functionality that uses HU and TCB and you can try resetting both HU & TCB as a final measure.

Part 5 in your diagram is the Telematics Aerial 2 (E66a, E66*1B).

Btw, what was the soda drink, maybe depending on the chemical content it can affect different things

hahahah... it was 8 oz of Lift. Possibly a little more. definitely not over 16oz. Lift is a fountain drink made from Apple Juice and Sparkling Water mix.
Yeah you are absolutely right... by the time we got home from that trip, most of the drink had already evaporated but the sugar concentration would be visible and i didn't see any on the TCB or the fuse box. i saw some liquid on the bottom of the storage area and next to the trunk latch and some of the top liner lid was wet. I dont think it was enough liquid to cause real damage. Im just not sure if that is the case of i am in the wrong or perhaps the TCB behaves that way when tested from the the NBT Evo HU

The TCB box seems to be sealed so spilling water over it (within reason) can not cause it to short out. Even the battery slot seems to be designed with this in mind. You could possibly short it at the connectors but even they seem to be able to take some abuse in that sense. I inspected both the TCB and the fuse box and they were both ok at first sight and no liquid near it...

[aboulfad]

Lift, but where is the caffeine I think maybe it was a coincidence, rather than cause and effect. You didn't answer my other questions, check out the other stuff, GL.

[MSport_Jon]

Originally Posted by aboulfad

Lift, but where is the caffeine I think maybe it was a coincidence, rather than cause and effect. You didn't answer my other questions, check out the other stuff, GL.

yeah... sorry..! i can run ECU functions on the TCB box. If i recall correctly you can look for IMEI number, TCB Serial, status of sim in regards to its connection to nearby towers. I can see that info. I can even reset it. All this adds to the confusion.

[aboulfad]

What about any features that require data connection, connected drive,... that will use the ETH wiring from HU to TCB?

If you share the FASTA Data, there may be secondary faults that are never displayed in ISTA. (Assuming you are not using my ISTA Nofasta dll that removes FASTA generation during basic vehicle test)

You are right that the chance the liquid damaged something is small..but nonetheless not zero.

[MSport_Jon]

Originally Posted by aboulfad

What about any features that require data connection, connected drive,... that will use the ETH wiring from HU to TCB?

If you share the FASTA Data, there may be secondary faults that are never displayed in ISTA. (Assuming you are not using my ISTA Nofasta dll that removes FASTA generation during basic vehicle test)

You are right that the chance the liquid damaged something is small..but nonetheless not zero.

As far as connected drive, since its US TCB module it cant get activated here. That is pretty much out of the question. So we have to live with TMC-RDS which is the next best thing.

How can i get a hold of this FASTA data..? i do not know how to access this.

[aboulfad]

For FASTA, Read my post #10.

[MSport_Jon]

Originally Posted by aboulfad

For FASTA, Read my post #10.

Im starting to believe that my version of ISTA is shit or really old.I think i have 3.52 which is old already. The paths you gave me on post 10 didnt match but i manage to fin the latest FASTA files. Hope they are of some use...

[aboulfad]

Originally Posted by MSport_Jon

Im starting to believe that my version of ISTA is shit or really old.I think i have 3.52 which is old already. The paths you gave me on post 10 didnt match but i manage to fin the latest FASTA files. Hope they are of some use...

Oh my that is freakin old... I am using 4.0.5, sending you stuff to play with and maybe it had to do with the ISTA version, because I know many newer versions clean up lot's of dum faults and errors... ;-)

[aboulfad]

ok, here what i quickly found in your FASTA data and summary:

Your approximate mileage for that FASTA: 6469km. At that mileage, many ECUs (ZGW, FEM, ICM, TCB) reported secondary faults, so its probable that something happened around then to trigger these weird errors. Recommend you upgrade your ISTA, and scan your car again.

TCB ECU:
Primary Fault:
E14600 TCB: Ethernet Unexpected communication Termination
Frequency Counter (F_HFK): 2, @5555km and @6469km

Secondary Fault:
610036: Flight Mode due to failed network registration, F_HFK = 118, @2254km
B7F314: SIM card not enabled, F_HFK=255 (max) @2254km

ZGW has a big list of secondary faults, but those are very hard to understand, something happened around 2254km !

FEM:
Secondary Fault:
804051: LINSM_CODING_ACCESS_FAILED , have no clue what that means. F_HLK=4, Healing counter = 255, @ 6469km.

8040CB: Terminal 15 Timeout shutdown, 2/255/6469 (HFK, HLZ, km)
PS: Your PM inbox is full, and please don't quote my replies here, I am the only replying

[MSport_Jon]

ill upgrade ISTA and try again... it could be the version... there anon models 2016 or newer listed in it when manually selecting models...

[MSport_Jon]

i decided to take it to the dealer and have them upgrade the car. I starting to believe the version of ISTA is too old and perhaps communication with the car is choppy. Nothing has happened to this car until the spill which i would say was around 6k kms

[aboulfad]

Good call on the visit to dealer, though you could have updated your car's Istep yourself if you are the DIY type but sometimes it's better to pay a bit and have peace of mind.