6MT or DCT?

[avantix]

Originally Posted by Kbueno

The ALS system holds boost between shifts so I'm curious why you experienced this? I find no issues holding boost unless you don't shift fast enough...

What he said.....I used to have the boost problem with both my 335s and it would drive me crazy to bog time after time but the F80 holds boost 100%. I shift really quickly and have never seen boost drop, ever.

[Lee808]

Originally Posted by BMW M4 PWR

Thats bullshit, don't ever listen to what a "dealer" tells you your trade is worth lol, the 6-spds generally bring a little more money at the auctions than the far more common DCT's. Exclusivety generally wins the resale battle brotha . I just sold mine a couple of grand more than an identical DCT would of brung... it's not a huge difference because they actually made a decent numbers of manuals too* But advantage is still definitely a little more on the 6-spds side...

I see what you're saying. Don't get me wrong, I love my 6mt and I'm sad to see that technology is phasing out the 6MT, but value is all perception. If I'm not mistaken the DCT is outselling the 6MT by a mile. If a dealer had the least bit if intelligence, he/she would be far less willing to pay top dollar for a 6MT than a DCT.

Think about it, this is already a very specialized car with a very small and particular buyer base (vs 3 series for example). Now days people in our particular niche wants performance without sacrificing luxury. Look at the F80's competitors. Also, How many bought a stripped base F8x for performance only? It may not be true in this forum but a lot of people can't/don't want to drive manual. A LOT. I know a couple f80 guys local as well. DCT is more valueable without question. I will always love the 6mt however. Great job on getting top dollar. Oh btw exclusiveness does help with value but if you can't sell it to a buyer then it doesn't matter. Sometimes dealers just don't want that hassle.

[DinoDan]

Originally Posted by BMW M4 PWR

Says the newb with ONE post on this forum ...nice try pal, but you're talking to a professional on this subject. That JUST came back from the highline sale last week. You sound like a fanboy trying to sound knowledgeable but fall far short of the mark. Your personal ideas on what's "superior" have NOTHING to do with resale value btw.

FYI: The new Z06 manuals bring less bc they actually built MORE of them than the autos and it's manual is a 7-speed which isn't desirable by some (too many gears for a proper manual) M4s were built with 6-spds in FAR fewer numbers than the garden variety DCTs which is the primary transmission the car is built with

The bullshit never stops with this guy. The new Z06 with auto outsold the manual 5 to 1. Do a little research before you post.

The reason manual trans is being discontinued is they are not selling for shit. There is no demand for them except a few fanboys like yourself. Keep talking out the side of your neck like you are some type of pro. I have sold more sports car then you ever will. No one cares about your one highlight sale. The simple fact is the dct is far more desirable and will hold better value in the long run.

[DinoDan]

Originally Posted by Lee808

I see what you're saying. Don't get me wrong, I love my 6mt and I'm sad to see that technology is phasing out the 6MT, but value is all perception. If I'm not mistaken the DCT is outselling the 6MT by a mile. If a dealer had the least bit if intelligence, he/she would be far less willing to pay top dollar for a 6MT than a DCT.

Think about it, this is already a very specialized car with a very small and particular buyer base (vs 3 series for example). Now days people in our particular niche wants performance without sacrificing luxury. Look at the F80's competitors. Also, How many bought a stripped base F8x for performance only? It may not be true in this forum but a lot of people can't/don't want to drive manual. A LOT. I know a couple f80 guys local as well. DCT is more valueable without question. I will always love the 6mt however. Great job on getting top dollar. Oh btw exclusiveness does help with value but if you can't sell it to a buyer then it doesn't matter. Sometimes dealers just don't want that hassle.

Exactly!

I have driven a stick my whole life and still have a couple cars with them but times have changed. I love banging gears but dct is the future as millennials don't want manuals. Plus performance wise it is a no brainer which is better.

[kyleb350]

Originally Posted by Motodude310

I was going to go manual for the f80. But after seeing that it takes so long to get back in boost with MT afyer shifting I decided against it. That would drive me absolutely nuts.

I had a similar feeling test driving both transmissions, but my love for manual ultimately won.

If you value acceleration the most, get the DCT.

Threads on this subject never go well because this decision shouldn't be based on what other people think.

[Kung Fu English]

Originally Posted by Lee808

I see what you're saying. Don't get me wrong, I love my 6mt and I'm sad to see that technology is phasing out the 6MT, but value is all perception. If I'm not mistaken the DCT is outselling the 6MT by a mile. If a dealer had the least bit if intelligence, he/she would be far less willing to pay top dollar for a 6MT than a DCT.

Think about it, this is already a very specialized car with a very small and particular buyer base (vs 3 series for example). Now days people in our particular niche wants performance without sacrificing luxury. Look at the F80's competitors. Also, How many bought a stripped base F8x for performance only? It may not be true in this forum but a lot of people can't/don't want to drive manual. A LOT. I know a couple f80 guys local as well. DCT is more valueable without question. I will always love the 6mt however. Great job on getting top dollar. Oh btw exclusiveness does help with value but if you can't sell it to a buyer then it doesn't matter. Sometimes dealers just don't want that hassle.

Originally Posted by DinoDan

The bullshit never stops with this guy. The new Z06 with auto outsold the manual 5 to 1. Do a little research before you post.

The reason manual trans is being discontinued is they are not selling for shit. There is no demand for them except a few fanboys like yourself. Keep talking out the side of your neck like you are some type of pro. I have sold more sports car then you ever will. No one cares about your one highlight sale. The simple fact is the dct is far more desirable and will hold better value in the long run.

You guys are thinking about it wrong. Your argument is that dct will be worth more used because it outsells 6mt new. These are entirely different markets.

First of all, most m3/4s are NOT ordered to someone's spec. The dealer just orders it and it comes. Furthermore, most m3s are NOT sold to enthusiasts like people on this forum. They are sold to older professionals who want the "best" 3 series and just want it for fun. That population can spend 80k on a car and wants an auto.

So if you take the population of cars and buyers out that are in that category (dealer ordered, on lot sales) I'm guessing the actual ratio of dct to 6mt for enthusiasts gets a lot closer to 1:1.

Furthermore, new car sales have very little bearing on this argument anyway. We are talking about used car resale.

The people looking to buy these used are more likely to be enthusiasts who can't afford a new one but are looking in the 40-50k range for a 3-5 year used one. This group is FAR more likely to prefer 6mt.

So basically here's how it works: dct is worth more if the car is new or near new (>50k in cost) because the people willing to spend that prefer auto and the option costs more.

6mt will be worth more in the enthusiast group on a tighter budget (<40k) because there are far less available and most of this population prefers a clutch.

The crossover is somewhere in between.

The e46 showed this, the e92 is showing this now as well. The f80 will be the same.

[Lee808]

Originally Posted by Kung Fu English

You guys are thinking about it wrong. Your argument is that dct will be worth more used because it outsells 6mt new. These are entirely different markets.

First of all, most m3/4s are NOT ordered to someone's spec. The dealer just orders it and it comes. Furthermore, most m3s are NOT sold to enthusiasts like people on this forum. They are sold to older professionals who want the "best" 3 series and just want it for fun. That population can spend 80k on a car and wants an auto.

So if you take the population of cars and buyers out that are in that category (dealer ordered, on lot sales) I'm guessing the actual ratio of dct to 6mt for enthusiasts gets a lot closer to 1:1.

Furthermore, new car sales have very little bearing on this argument anyway. We are talking about used car resale.

The people looking to buy these used are more likely to be enthusiasts who can't afford a new one but are looking in the 40-50k range for a 3-5 year used one. This group is FAR more likely to prefer 6mt.

So basically here's how it works: dct is worth more if the car is new or near new (>50k in cost) because the people willing to spend that prefer auto and the option costs more.

6mt will be worth more in the enthusiast group on a tighter budget (<40k) because there are far less available and most of this population prefers a clutch.

The crossover is somewhere in between.

The e46 showed this, the e92 is showing this now as well. The f80 will be the same.

I stated this earlier...private party will likely value the 6mt more Than the DCT. Dealers will want the DCT because they can sell it faster. I highly highly doubt that there is a one to one ratio however but I don't know and I won't claim to. I'm Only making assumptions of current market trends. Who knows what the future will bring. But back to OP, all I really know is that the 6MT is amazing. I love it but my next M will likely be a DCT. I recommend trying both.

[Motodude310]

Originally Posted by Kbueno

The ALS system holds boost between shifts so I'm curious why you experienced this? I find no issues holding boost unless you don't shift fast enough...

TBH all I know about the manual is what I've read and seen on Youtube. Where I'm taking this from specifically is the head to head video with the M4 and new Camaro. The guy who gets their lap times said it takes a couple seconds after shifts to get back into the power. God knows how he had the car set up or how he was driving I guess.

I don't want to test drive anybody's MT car. I can drive stick, but I've never owned a manual car and am not very good at it.

[karbonM3]

Hi everyone!

I first wanted to thank you all for the plethora if information contained in this forum. I have lurked for years, but the stars are finally aligning and I think I will be purchasing my first BMW next month. (Can't decide on F80/82)

That being said, I wanted some feedback from owners on if they had any regrets in not going with DCT, or vice versa.


My intention is not to make this a 'DCT vs Manual' thread, but merely to get different points of view before I make my decision.


Me: This will be my daily driver. 25mile commute round trip. Mostly interstate/highway, but they are both under construction. Traffic is terrible if I do not leave at certain times. Weekend traffic is not terrible. Driven manuals all my life, this would be my first experience with a DCT. Can it be an auto for when traffic sucks, and then shifted into manual mode when I want to have fun?

[jmg]

First off no other M car in history ever provided a better non manual than the current DCT. i have an 80 mile round trip commute and the DCT is perfect for it. On the weekends, it's fast and visceral enough to have a lot of fun in the canyons and back roads.

[ArieArie]

It is a personal decision.

From my point of view:
I didn't care for the extra fraction of a second in the 0-60 that the DCT gives you.
I drive for almost 40 years and only 10 or so years I drove with a non-manual cars. I drive my M5 for 17 years now, 190k miles, and I really enjoy the control I have with a manual transmission.

I drove a DCT for one weekend only, and I didn't like some of the decisions the transmission made. I guess an old dog doesn't like new tricks.

[ciaranob]

Was in the exact same position w.r.t. always having had manual drive cars prior to my current ride - my M4 is also a daily driver with ca. 36 mile round trip commute, variable traffic. After 3 years, not a single regret (not that I don't miss manual but can also drive the wife's Mini Cooper S manual or for that matter my motorbike! ) but the DCT is pretty damn excellent and makes a whole lot of sense with a daily driver in traffic. TBH I'd say I am in paddle shift mode close to 80% of the time but when crawling the DCT is a life saver.

[karbonM3]

Thanks guys, this is actually a pretty hard choice for me lol. I am building since I have not been able to find any dealers with anything that remotely matches my "wants". Probably will schedule a test drive with the dealer for another model just to experience what the DCT is like.

[skyline408]

Originally Posted by ArieArie

It is a personal decision.

From my point of view:
I didn't care for the extra fraction of a second in the 0-60 that the DCT gives you.
I drive for almost 40 years and only 10 or so years I drove with a non-manual cars. I drive my M5 for 17 years now, 190k miles, and I really enjoy the control I have with a manual transmission.

I drove a DCT for one weekend only, and I didn't like some of the decisions the transmission made. I guess an old dog doesn't like new tricks.

The beauty of DCT is you can just shift manually. It will hold the gear as long as you like - just like manual.

My 911 is 6MT, and I much prefer the driving dynamics of my M3 DCT. It's a fantastic transmission.

[AustinGelbM4]

Driven manuals all my life. M4 DCT is very good. I still have another full manual BMW. I have both because I can and they're completely different experiences. I will not likely ever buy another manual again (even though I love it, heel and toe well, have so much experience with them). My only big WTF moment with BMW M4 DCT came when I realized I cannot take DCT out of park if engine isn't running. Even regular automatics Ive driven have an emergency release.

[ArieArie]

Originally Posted by meraki

Thanks guys, this is actually a pretty hard choice for me lol. I am building since I have not been able to find any dealers with anything that remotely matches my "wants". Probably will schedule a test drive with the dealer for another model just to experience what the DCT is like.

One more thing to consider, This generation of BMW M cars is probably the last to even offer a Manual Transmission. This could be good, or bad, depending on your point of view..

[Thescout13]

Which transmission you get is a deeply personal decision. I have loved my manuals in the past and I have loved my autos in the past. All for different reasons. I currently live in California and the traffic here can be brutal. Because of this both my car and my wife's are auto. It saves my left leg, and in a pinch when I need to floor it to do get out of something or around someone, I find having the auto is much quicker (probably because less steps to actually get up and go). However, when I lived in North Carolina I had a manual. Traffic was less and I never got bored of my manual like I did my wife's auto. But there my commute had minimal (read bearable) traffic.

One recommendation I would make, which some others have done on here, is rent one on Turo (if there is manual in your area) for a few days and commute to work in it. Yeah it can be pricey, but you get to live with a manual on that commute. If you find yourself making excuses to get the manual (like "oo I can deal with it" or "it is not that bad" or "but it can be so fun on the weekends") do not get the manual and get the DCT and have fun with the paddles when you want. My philosophy has always been - if I do not notice I am driving a manual in a long test drive (feels natural), I get the manual, but if I find myself making any justification for it, I get auto.

Hope that helps. Good luck!

[damageprone]

Originally Posted by meraki

Me: This will be my daily driver. 25mile commute round trip. Mostly interstate/highway, but they are both under construction. Traffic is terrible if I do not leave at certain times. Weekend traffic is not terrible. Driven manuals all my life, this would be my first experience with a DCT. Can it be an auto for when traffic sucks, and then shifted into manual mode when I want to have fun?

This is the reason why I went with DCT. Coming from a manual car, I drove in horrendous amounts of traffic for 10 years in Southern California so I feel your pain. The DCT for me was the best of both worlds and I don't regret it. It definitely bucks like a MT if you don't treat it right.

Traffic for long periods of time still does suck for me in my DCT F80, but I think that's because of my seating position regardless on how I adjust it.

As for the DCT switching, it took me some getting used to as there is no 3rd pedal. Switching of the gears can be handled by the shifter or the paddle shifters on the steering wheel easily by pushing the shifter horizontally.

[karbonM3]

That does help, thanks! How is the switching on the fly? Is it safe on the transmission to flip it into manual mode from auto while driving? Not having owned one before, I have a slew of questions.

Scenario - Driving and I need to make a maneuver that in a manual would require me to downshift, and get aggressive on the gas, while eventually shifting up into next gear. Would this work roughly the same with the DCT?

Curious about lag time in auto mode, and then shifting into manual mode while driving and then downshifting to get around someone, etc.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by meraki

That does help, thanks! How is the switching on the fly? Is it safe on the transmission to flip it into manual mode from auto while driving? Not having owned one before, I have a slew of questions.

Scenario - Driving and I need to make a maneuver that in a manual would require me to downshift, and get aggressive on the gas, while eventually shifting up into next gear. Would this work roughly the same with the DCT?

Curious about lag time in auto mode, and then shifting into manual mode while driving and then downshifting to get around someone, etc.

It's as fast as a tap on the paddles and faster than downshifting on a manual. Some might argue not as fun.

[x.shell]

Originally Posted by ArieArie

One more thing to consider, This generation of BMW M cars is probably the last to even offer a Manual Transmission. This could be good, or bad, depending on your point of view..

This may be true... BUT it may also be the last generation to offer a DCT as well. I wouldn't be surprised if the next gen comes with an 8-speed ZF automatic transmission only; like the new G80 M5.

That being said, I chose the 6MT and I have no regrets. I've driven manual all my life and it feels like home to me. I do have to caveat that I switched the clutch pedal and installed a SSK. And now I have a CAE shifter on the way. So my set up isn't "stock".

[Wah]

I never had fun flipping the paddles... I know some people drive paddles all the time, but it didn't do anything for me. I've had two DCT Ms and I'd say I drove in auto 98% of the time. My 2018 has 6MT.