.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by anglo

Sounds like you dont understand how BMW warranty works, a dealer can be mod friendly but for some repairs BMW NA can have one of their engineers look at a car, in that case it's out of the dealer's hands.

Thanks for the life lesson, ever so grateful.

[clutchdj]

In the grand scheme of things OP you did not ruin your engine after a few key starts post fault codes; and imho 2600 dealer cost is a hell of a lot cheaper than a replacment or tear down. Turned it in w/jb4 on huh

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by 1FastS4

I agree. But so is expecting BMW to warranty a car that's seen exhaust mods, tuning, and ethanol. People say they are willing to "pay to play" until it's time to pay. A mod friendly dealer sets a precedent. At the very least the Service Adviser should have asked him to remove the JB4 so they could properly diagnose and troubleshoot the issue with no obvious tuning in place.

+1 - The dealer can do some small things to help BMWNA make a customer favorable decision as they're the investigative body so they can pick and choose what "evidence" they report on the claim, but ultimately the warranty is between the buyer and BMWNA, not the dealer. And the dealer makes a LOT of money on BMWNA routine service, so they're likely not going to outright lie to protect a customer. But maybe.

Here's the warranty text from my 2015 showing it's BMWNA not the dealer that makes the warranty decisions:

(from my 2015 M4):

Owner's Warranty Responsibilities:
– As the vehicle owner, you are responsible for
the performance of the required maintenance
listed in your Owner's Manual. BMW NA
recommends that you retain all receipts
covering maintenance on your vehicle, but
BMW NA cannot deny warranty solely for the
lack of receipts or for your failure to ensure the
performance of all scheduled maintenance.
– You are responsible for presenting your vehicle
to an authorized BMW center as soon as a
problem exists. The warranty repairs should be
completed in a reasonable amount of time, not
to exceed 30 days.
– As the vehicle owner, you should also be aware
that BMW NA may deny your warranty
coverage if your vehicle or part has failed due to
abuse, neglect, improper maintenance or
unapproved modifications.

What is not covered
This warranty does not cover malfunctions
caused by any of the following: accident, flood,
misuse, modification, alteration, tampering,
disconnection, improper or inadequate
maintenance, except if performed by an
authorized BMW center doing warranty repair
work, use of leaded fuel or fuel other than as
specified in the Owner's Manual.

If you have any questions regarding your
warranty rights and responsibilities, you should
contact:
BMW of North America, LLC
Customer Relations and Services Department
P.O. Box 1227
Westwood, NJ 07675-1227

So that text is pretty clear - if the failure is due to modification, you're not covered.

[jpdchicago]

That is why I would have gone with Dinan (installed by dealer). JB4 too risky in case of trouble, even not related to the tune. BMW will take advantage of it any time when shit happens...

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by jpdchicago

That is why I would have gone with Dinan (installed by dealer). JB4 too risky in case of trouble, even not related to the tune. BMW will take advantage of it any time when shit happens...

The "BMW district engineer" would've made the same ruling - no warranty due to modification. (however since Dinan's tune is less aggressive, maybe it wouldn't have happened?)

And that likely also means any future warranty claims will be equally denied. BTW, I doubt that the "BMW district engineer" just happened to be around ... I'd guess the dealership decided there was no way to hide or lie about the engine data (boost, fuel, etc) so they used that as an excuse to keep their name out of it. "hey, it's them, not us!"

If the engine tune is Dinan, now you're relying on Dinan's insurance to pay the $2600 and for any future repairs because the engine warranty is likely toast.

It's a good back-up plan to cover the repair costs for this incident, but either way the warranty is probably toast.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

If the engine tune is Dinan, now you're relying on Dinan's insurance to pay the $2600 and for any future repairs because the engine warranty is likely toast.

It's a good back-up plan to cover the repair costs for this incident, but either way the warranty is probably toast.

This would be a good example to see how Dinan would handle this. Based on the limited info provided, the OP claims the dealership took one look at the mods and denied warranty (I realize he has jb4 but for sake of argument assume it was Dinan tune) simply based on that. They didnt provide him any info saying here is what happened and here is how the tune caused it though, just a simple denial based on having an aftermarket part.

OP would then presumably go to Dinan and fill them in...would Dinan say sure here is your $2,600 sorry for the inconvenience? Or would Dinan say (and possibly rightfully so) our mod didnt cause this damage, no way it could have? Seems like an easy situation to be stuck with the bill.

[JoeyBananas]

This is ridiculous, 80k car and the motor tries to grenade itself with a few extra lbs of boost?

[Jaymax85]

Originally Posted by JoeyBananas

This is ridiculous, 80k car and the motor tries to grenade itself with a few extra lbs of boost?

100 whp+ more is not simply a few extra lbs of boost

bottom line is you pay to play. Think of it this way, if you designed a bridge to operate at loads up to 10000 lbs and someone consistently puts 15000 lbs on it, should u be liable if the bridge fails.. nope.

[kitesurfer]

Can you post up a picture of the BMW dealer diagnosis worksheet. As you would be the first ZCP confirmed spun hub. This would help our community

Call BMW NA . Be very polite have the Vins of all the bmw cars you have owned and try to file and appeal with a manager

[rosenbergendo]

If the JB4 was removed this would've very likely been covered. In fact, I'm willing to bet it would've been.

[Rhedrick17]

/

[Rhedrick17]

Originally Posted by CaryTheLabelGuy

Yes. There have been instances of totally stock S55's spinning their Crank Hubs. BMW knows about this issue, it's been well documented.

You need to contact corporate and see if they'll do a goodwill repair. While you're at it, see if they'll repair it and install the new VTT Crank Hub Bolt Capture as a preventative measure, going forward. It can't hurt at this point.

I did ask my SA about this and he said yes they will. any input on who has the best solution out? i saw the VTT and looks like it might be the answer.

[kitesurfer]

We all Know the JB4 is not the issue, its BMW's legacy design. Surprised this happened on a ZCP car with the new bedplate as we all speculated that was the fix

[Rhedrick17]

/

[Rhedrick17]

/

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Rhedrick17

and JK... called my SA and even if i put it back to stock my vin is flagged and ill get denied again... this just keeps getting better and better.

It's not "getting better" it was always this way.

How do you not know that you can't bolt mystery shit onto your engine and not seriously risk blowing the warranty?

Do people really expect BMW to say: "we warranty our product's reliability no matter what mystery shit you do to it"? And if not that then is there a limit people are expecting? "We warranty your engine up to 100 hp increase via any crazy shit you wanna try. do whatever you want"?

BMW warranties their engine as they designed, built, and shipped it - if you fuck with it and it breaks it's only by their CHARITY that you'd be covered.

And, yes, everyone's recourse is to not buy BMW ever ever again. If there's some other manufacturer who's going to pay for your engine experiments then you should definitely buy from them.

But you better hurry, because a company like that ain't gonna be in business too long.

[JoeyBananas]

Originally Posted by HELLOimJ

100 whp+ more is not simply a few extra lbs of boost

bottom line is you pay to play. Think of it this way, if you designed a bridge to operate at loads up to 10000 lbs and someone consistently puts 15000 lbs on it, should u be liable if the bridge fails.. nope.

I think BMW just kind of sucks in the engineering dept.

I took my completely stock bottom end S2000 and went from 240HP to 650WHP with 600lb ft of torque and run it like that for over 75,000 miles?

Maybe its apples to Oranges but Map2 on JB4 doesnt seem like a Whole heck of an increase on an already 4xxHP car? I guess the difference is maybe the harshness of the DCT? I dunno its just frustrating

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by JoeyBananas

Maybe its apples to Oranges but Map2 on JB4 doesnt seem like a Whole heck of an increase on an already 4xxHP car? I guess the difference is maybe the harshness of the DCT? I dunno its just frustrating

Honda doesn't sell those S2000s anymore right?

Hello, Apple? Yes, hi, a few weeks ago I cracked open my iPhone and soldered a booster chip onto the motherboard that a dude on the internet sold me. My phone worked great for a few weeks but now it won't boot. You're totally paying to fix that right?

[Jaymax85]

Originally Posted by JoeyBananas

I think BMW just kind of sucks in the engineering dept.

I took my completely stock bottom end S2000 and went from 240HP to 650WHP with 600lb ft of torque and run it like that for over 75,000 miles?

Maybe its apples to Oranges but Map2 on JB4 doesnt seem like a Whole heck of an increase on an already 4xxHP car? I guess the difference is maybe the harshness of the DCT? I dunno its just frustrating

ur sample size of 1 isnt that statistically significant for the honda engineering powess. THere are plenty of s2000s with blown motors, diffs, and trans's.

Bottom line is you do have to pay to play. And if OP is sour and doesn't want to buy another bmw, he will learn that ANY manufacturer will deny warranty for this.

[MNoob]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

This would be a good example to see how Dinan would handle this. Based on the limited info provided, the OP claims the dealership took one look at the mods and denied warranty (I realize he has jb4 but for sake of argument assume it was Dinan tune) simply based on that. They didnt provide him any info saying here is what happened and here is how the tune caused it though, just a simple denial based on having an aftermarket part.

OP would then presumably go to Dinan and fill them in...would Dinan say sure here is your $2,600 sorry for the inconvenience? Or would Dinan say (and possibly rightfully so) our mod didnt cause this damage, no way it could have? Seems like an easy situation to be stuck with the bill.

This isn't how it works. The dealer calls Dinan and they work out a plan. The car owner isn't involved. Car owner doesn't go through Dinan.

I've had the car in twice, one CEL and one drivetrain malfunction.

First time dealer spoke to Dinan and they came up with a plan. Remove harness, drive and check codes. Dealer ended up reflashing car software (which got me the new software everyone was posting about at the time).

Second time drivetrain malfunction came on for wastegate issues. Dealer spoke to Dinan and plan was to remove harness and drive for 500 miles to see if issue returned. (original codes came up once but not again). Drove for 500 miles, no issues, and brought car back in. Haven't picked it up yet, as I'm on vacation, but SA said Dinan harness is back on.

Without me asking specifically how it works with Dinan, I wouldn't have known. It's all handled through the dealer. Maybe just my dealer, but that's been my experience.

[Who's on first]

If it's a mod's fault or not.

The rules are clear, and we all know them.

This has got to be the cheapest SCH repair ever. I'd be overjoyed.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by MNoob

This isn't how it works. The dealer calls Dinan and they work out a plan. The car owner isn't involved. Car owner doesn't go through Dinan.

Which is exactly what I think is hugely dangerous.

Your BMW engine warranty is with BMWNA, not the dealer, and BMWNA has zero relationship with Dinan who's actually a performance parts competitor.

So in your scenario you've got a dealer acting as your agent, potentially negotiating on your behalf with BMWNA and Dinan while you sit on the sidelines hoping it all comes out in your favor.

What the dealer is likely doing is working with Dinan to see if Dinan should pay without every contacting BMWNA thus limiting the warranty risk ... but, as we see in this exact case, if BMWNA is contacted and were to come back and deny warranty repairs due to modification your VIN is flagged and all future warranty claims will be denied. So they came up with a plan, but it was a bad plan.

So it's only AFTER you've lost your BMWNA warranty. That's a call you don't want, "yes BMW is saying they won't pay, but don't worry Dinan is going to". What they may not tell you is your VIN is now flagged and you're not 100% dependent on Dinan paying for future repairs.

In short, I'd never want a dealer negotiating on my behalf and making decisions when it comes to my BMW warranty.