Is anyone having issues with front tires at the track?

[MRakete]

So,

Here are the RE71r after a day at MSR Cresson.

As you can see, the tires held up well bit they are not as fast as PSC2 by at least 1 seconds.

Have to be very cautious on braking as the brakes are way over powering the tire grip. Good tire but not good enough for for the GTS.

Hot tire pressure, 32F/31R. Camber plates with -2.8 front and -2.5 rear. A hint of toe out in front and 1/16 each side toe in rear.

I really like the idea of the R888r. I have a set on my M2 and love them.

HOOSIERS R7's are very fast, might be an option with square set up for me. Will post a video on you tube soon.

[M4_GTS]

Originally Posted by MRakete

So,

Here are the RE71r after a day at MSR Cresson.

As you can see, the tires held up well bit they are not as fast as PSC2 by at least 1 seconds.

Have to be very cautious on braking as the brakes are way over powering the tire grip. Good tire but not good enough for for the GTS.

Hot tire pressure, 32F/31R. Camber plates with -2.8 front and -2.5 rear. A hint of toe out in front and 1/16 each side toe in rear.

I really like the idea of the R888r. I have a set on my M2 and love them.

HOOSIERS R7's are very fast, might be an option with square set up for me. Will post a video on you tube soon.

can you post a side profile pic? thanks, any rubbing and those sizes fits the stock wheels?

[MRakete]

Originally Posted by M4_GTS

can you post a side profile pic? thanks, any rubbing and those sizes fits the stock wheels?

No rubbing. Have camber plates.

[schnell325]

Originally Posted by MRakete

No rubbing. Have camber plates.

Which camber plates are you running?

[MRakete]

Originally Posted by schnell325

Which camber plates are you running?

Ground Control.

[schnell325]

Originally Posted by MRakete

Ground Control.

Nice. Have them on my F80

[Captain Unknown GT4]

Thanks for info. Glad to see someone use the car on track. Would Love to hear your feedback if and when you driven the car in the low track setting.

[MRakete]

Originally Posted by Captain Unknown GT4

Thanks for info. Glad to see someone use the car on track. Would Love to hear your feedback if and when you driven the car in the low track setting.

To me, the street set up on the suspension is more like a delivery set up.

Took the car first to COTA, then MSR Cresson with the factory high set up. Honestly, was a joke. I was getting insane body roll and the car felt like an X5. There is absolutely zero benefit to use the high setting for track use. The is not only my opinion but also the opinion of multiple knowledgeable race mechanics and pro drivers.


Again, the RE71R is a great tire but not good enough for the GTS.

I am used to race cars and GT3s. My goal it to make my GTS as fast as 991 GT3rs at COTA and MSR Cresson. There is a bit more R&D to do but I think I'll get there.

Next modification is catless downpipes.

[Captain Unknown GT4]

Thanks, agree. It no point to ever drive any track (except Nurburgring) at the high street settings. Car is far from the best athleate then. I find it strange how many still do this. Not only no clue car Magazine but accuall owners.

Hope to see that GTS when done lappning at RS pace👍

[MRakete]

Originally Posted by Captain Unknown GT4

Thanks, agree. It no point to ever drive any track (except Nurburgring) at the high street settings. Car is far from the best athleate then. If find it strange how many still do this. Not only no clue car Magazine but accuall owners.

Hope to see that GTS when done lappning at RS pace👍

Have you tried the ring on low setting?

[johnr265]

Are you using the factory recommended track damper settings as well or have you found you need more than that with the R7?

[Captain Unknown GT4]

Originally Posted by MRakete

Have you tried the ring on low setting?

No, just drive it from Bmw dealer on street setup to Nurburgring and did only 4 laps. This is the 4th lap. Bmw factory lap was driven on this street setup as GTS is deliverd around the world. I would say the low down track setting Will slow you down here due to car Will bounce of an lose traction on many scary fast bends. Like kesselchen kink and tiergarten dip.

One need very Big balls to go fast on Nurburgring on the stock bmw GTS GP track setting. Then again sure you can lower it down to suit personal pace and driverstyle(considering rebounce and rebound is taken in to play)

But stock BMW DROP down low GP setting Will slow us down, confidence fly out the Window when car start bouncing at 285 in to tiergarten dip. On BMW stock street setup it fly past here no issue at all. Thats how god its developee here.

A friend did try and if you look at his car how they are bouncing around on the Seat past Big karussel, then see how relaxed My car is same section.

Here is My lap.

https://youtu.be/eRt572YHCxI

See My friends GTS lap, its low down set by schirmer motorsport, and that guy know how to set it at this track. But this first try did show My friends car was a bit hard. He is on here and could tel it him selfe. Schirmer motorsport Will set it god but you would need a few trackdays to figure it out.(also I suggest datalogg pre, during and past)

https://youtu.be/UAYy7-LEjCU

[MRakete]

Originally Posted by Captain Unknown GT4

No, just drive it from Bmw dealer on street setup to Nurburgring and did only 4 laps. This is the 4th lap. Bmw factory lap was driven on this street setup as GTS is deliverd around the world. I would say the low down track setting Will slow you down here due to car Will bounce of an lose traction on many scary fast bends. Like kesselchen kink and tiergarten dip.

One need very Big balls to go fast on Nurburgring on the GTS GP track setting.

A friend did try and if you look at his car how they are bouncing around on the Seat past Big karussel, then see how relaxed My car is same section.

Here is My lap.

https://youtu.be/eRt572YHCxI


See My friends GTS lap, its low down sett by schirmer motorsport

https://youtu.be/UAYy7-LEjCU

If the car is properly set up, it will be faster with a lower ride height. Bouncing around on bumps comes with the territory of track and race cars vs. street cars/set up.

Knowledge of proper chassis set up including suspension, alignment and ride height set up makes all the difference. 99% of street cars, even a GT3 comes from the factory with a bunch of understeer.

I will be doing more testing soon with data collection and race engineer.

[MRakete]

Originally Posted by Captain Unknown GT4

No, just drive it from Bmw dealer on street setup to Nurburgring and did only 4 laps. This is the 4th lap. Bmw factory lap was driven on this street setup as GTS is deliverd around the world. I would say the low down track setting Will slow you down here due to car Will bounce of an lose traction on many scary fast bends. Like kesselchen kink and tiergarten dip.

One need very Big balls to go fast on Nurburgring on the stock bmw GTS GP track setting. Then again sure you can lower it down to suit personal pace and driverstyle(considering rebounce and rebound is taken in to play)

But stock BMW DROP down low GP setting Will slow us down, confidence fly out the Window when car start bouncing at 285 in to tiergarten dip. On BMW stock street setup it fly past here no issue at all. Thats how god its developee here.

A friend did try and if you look at his car how they are bouncing around on the Seat past Big karussel, then see how relaxed My car is same section.

Here is My lap.

https://youtu.be/eRt572YHCxI

See My friends GTS lap, its low down set by schirmer motorsport, and that guy know how to set it at this track. But this first try did show My friends car was a bit hard. He is on here and could tel it him selfe. Schirmer motorsport Will set it god but you would need a few trackdays to figure it out.(also I suggest datalogg pre, during and past)

https://youtu.be/UAYy7-LEjCU

I see your friend is driving with the traction control on. are You?

[Captain Unknown GT4]

Yes, when I outlap or lap same 7.27.88min bmw factory lap then its time for me to try some different adjustemts. What I am accually saying-that Will not happen. Hence stock street setting is Rather ok for me, As its more I who are the limiting factor. Car do 7.27.88min (factory lap) on the sport auto lap on the early morning 13 degree run, that is on bmw m stock street setting.

If I ever get even close to that I might consider to tru different setting. Until then Bmw m developer Jörgs settings is god for me.

Heck he is a german hillclimb car expert and also do Well in VLN.

I would never ever have the time or the intresset Nor the budget or pace to try to out run him in the chassie departement. He is the chassie guru and Instant you feel that if you put GTS on nur.

Originally Posted by MRakete

If the car is properly set up, it will be faster with a lower ride height. Bouncing around on bumps comes with the territory of track and race cars vs. street cars/set up.

Knowledge of proper chassis set up including suspension, alignment and ride height set up makes all the difference. 99% of street cars, even a GT3 comes from the factory with a bunch of understeer.

I will be doing more testing soon with data collection and race engineer.

[Captain Unknown GT4]

I drive only 4 laps in a brand new car I never driven before, also prior to this I drove here One year ago. So yes Esp was on, not full but the level wher it allow more slip. Not that esp take away anything in these slow speeds anyway.

But I am that kind of guy that Always like to drive My cars fully My selfe, hence a few more time in car As i get more safe in it a cut ESP.
But all cars I initialt test first how systems work. In PORSCHE GT4 systems are so god the interfere 5-6 Times on a average lap of 3.2km With out people even feel it. Overall sport auto test this often and Porsche systems are overal more superior than bmw. They do 2.4km short hockenheim With esp and without. Porsche cars very small difference. Bmw systems slows them down very much.

But GTS i feel no interference on My lap as you see in video.

Anyway its no so fast, hence that why.

Still systems of today are solid, new MB amg gt-s did lap Nurburgring at 7.36min With sport auto. And its no difference systems on or off, thats how god they are now in MB gt-s.

Sure on the average mickey mouse track instant I also drive first few laps no esp(even if car is new, but nur is special, One must progress slowly and test car first) , as systems tend to interfere more on them tracks vs Nurburgring.

But at the 7.29bridge to gantry lap I did I feel no interfere of ESP. Then again You would not in GT4 Porsche at same pace, but data did show how you trigger ESC in Porsche. That I dont can not see in GTS in the same clever way.

Originally Posted by MRakete

I see your friend is driving with the traction control on. are You?

[MRakete]

Originally Posted by Captain Unknown GT4

I drive only 4 laps in a brand new car I never driven before, also prior to this I drove here One year ago. So yes Esp was on, not full but the level wher it allow more slip. Not that esp take away anything in these slow speeds anyway.

But I am that kind of guy that Always like to drive My cars fully My selfe, hence a few more time in car As i get more safe in it a cut ESP.
But all cars I initialt test first how systems work. In PORSCHE GT4 systems are so god the interfere 5-6 Times on a average lap of 3.2km With out people even feel it. Overall sport auto test this often and Porsche systems are overal more superior than bmw. They do 2.4km short hockenheim With esp and without. Porsche cars very small difference. Bmw systems slows them down very much.

But GTS i feel no interference on My lap as you see in video.

Anyway its no so fast, hence that why.

Still systems of today are solid, new MB amg gt-s did lap Nurburgring at 7.36min With sport auto. And its no difference systems on or off, thats how god they are now in MB gt-s.

Sure on the average mickey mouse track instant I also drive first few laps no esp(even if car is new, but nur is special, One must progress slowly and test car first) , as systems tend to interfere more on them tracks vs Nurburgring.

But at the 7.29bridge to gantry lap I did I feel no interfere of ESP. Then again You would not in GT4 Porsche at same pace, but data did show how you trigger ESC in Porsche. That I dont can not see in GTS in the same clever way.

Okay, lets get back on task regarding tires and track. But I do need to comment a bit about your reply above.

Is is IMPOSSIBLE to set up any cars with traction control on correctly as too many traction control, brake steer and other nannies will totally give you a wrong feel for the chassis. One of the big bad thing with new car is mid corner brake steer. Even on my GT3, I can feel it coming on a lot.

The traction light you see flashing on the GTS is only for traction control. All the other nannies are working and applying some kind of correction on track when you get into a turn.

That being said, regarding tires, IMO, the RE71r can be a great street replacement tire for the GTS but is is not good enough for track use.

[Captain Unknown GT4]

I am not sure I understand, but basically I agree It always more nice to drive the car 100% by our selfe, all ESC off. I always drive this way my selfe even modern systems is so god that ESP will not even slow down a PRO driver by much.

But hell no, I dont drive Nurburgring fully off ESP in a car I never driven before, and sertanly not if It was 1 year since last time I drove the track. 4 laps then It not enough, but hey after 20 I put it off. Then I had time to try to build speed and try systems.

Then again on my E46CSL I had to cut ESP more or less instant as systems was bad then and I did slow me down instant.

Now GTS systems is alot better and and it did not stopp my speed after 4 laps. Then again after 15 laps I get up to lap speed like 7.15-7.20btg and it might interferance, dont know as I only got 4 laps on trackday.

In the wet I go fully ESP off in GTS as I got more wet laps than dry, hence feel comfortable in car as did many lap on wet. But not many laps on dry.

Let you know in summer.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Captain Unknown GT4

...even modern systems is so god that ESP will not even slow down a PRO driver by much.

I don't agree with this general statement. Depending on manufacturers, even "sport" DSC/ESP systems can be quite intrusive and will significantly slow down a good driver. BMW DSC systems are notoriously over intrusive for performance driving. See AMS article below that compares lap times between full DSC/ESP, "Sport" DSC/ESP and Fully-off for an M4 and a C63S driven by a pro-driver (Uwe Sener). M4 was over a second faster with DSC Off vs MDM.

Note: I am not commenting specifically about the GTS' MDM/DSC system here, since I have no experience with it.

[MRakete]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I don't agree with this general statement. Depending on manufacturers, even "sport" DSC/ESP systems can be quite intrusive and will significantly slow down a good driver. BMW DSC systems are notoriously over intrusive for performance driving. See AMS article below that compares lap times between full DSC/ESP, "Sport" DSC/ESP and Fully-off for an M4 and a C63S driven by a pro-driver (Uwe Sener). M4 was over a second faster with DSC Off vs MDM.

Note: I am not commenting specifically about the GTS' MDM/DSC system here, since I have no experience with it.

Totally in agreement. 100%. Plus it is impossible to tune (chassis) a car with any aid on. You just can't collect real data.

[redrumm3]

Originally Posted by MRakete

Totally in agreement. 100%. Plus it is impossible to tune (chassis) a car with any aid on. You just can't collect real data.

Agreed as well. The DSC/MDM even in the GTS is way too intrusive.

[VCP]

Agree. I do not think you will find a better street/track combo than the PSC2. The Re71r is mediocre on my M4 and as you have shown this solidified my feelings. I would not mount them to my GTS. Square setup with Hoosiers would be game on for track duty. BTW nice to see you trying alignment options as well. Agree that "street" setting is more of a delivery option. The car just does not feel right in that setting. Good luck with your quest for GT3 beat down. It will happen. Note: I have been advised that and "alternate substance" in the water tank greatly increases power

Originally Posted by MRakete

So,

Here are the RE71r after a day at MSR Cresson.

As you can see, the tires held up well bit they are not as fast as PSC2 by at least 1 seconds.

Have to be very cautious on braking as the brakes are way over powering the tire grip. Good tire but not good enough for for the GTS.

Hot tire pressure, 32F/31R. Camber plates with -2.8 front and -2.5 rear. A hint of toe out in front and 1/16 each side toe in rear.

I really like the idea of the R888r. I have a set on my M2 and love them.

HOOSIERS R7's are very fast, might be an option with square set up for me. Will post a video on you tube soon.