Chris Harris F80 M3 review testing notes

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by solstice

Ok, so maybe it being CH "trim the line" means a little slide then "stabs" makes all the sense

And it being CH, a little slide probably means completely sideways...

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by Boss330

In the context he writes it, it's about controlling the car through the corner.

"Compared to, say, an E46 you lose a tiny amount of instant zap, but considering it has two turbochargers, you can take several stabs mid-corner to trim your line and the response is always there"

I understand it to mean that it's so responsive and powerful that you can trim the cars line through the corner by using the throttle (a good thing )

I read it that way as well.

[Powaup]

Originally Posted by Bonovox

Still waiting for someone to give a meaningful review of the manual. Chris didn't drive the MT. One reviewer drove it, but incredibly didn't say anything substantive. Anyone seen anything? I've got two days to change to DCT if I want;(

It's probably too late.. my car goes into production on Monday and I could not add Lighting package today

[19x]

Ahhhhhh...... the e46 ///M

Still a benchmark

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by Boss330

I did write "previous gen" because I was referring to this statement from Chris Harris:

"Real-world, this car is miles quicker than the old E92, and the torque means the rear axle loads up much earlier in a given turn, meaning you have the sensation of controlling the car's attitude with your right foot far more than you did before. "

That is a reference to the E92 and how you, in the F8x, can control the cars attitude with the throttle far more than you could before.

And that, as well as the rest of his comments on this topic, doesn't really fall in line with the S65 needing only one stab (implicitly meaning better I suppose?) and the S55 needs several stabs... He actually says the exact opposite. You can control the cars attitude by throttle far more than you could before!

Yeah, absolutely. Providing the quote definitely gives the needed context. I agree 100% with what you're saying then.

[lsmkr01]

So is that what the M3 has become... Mainly built to be a daily driver instead of a car closer to a racer that could be used as a daily?(exclude E36)

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by lsmkr01

So is that what the M3 has become... Mainly built to be a daily driver instead of a car closer to a racer that could be used as a daily?(exclude E36)

The M3 has always been lauded as being the kind of car that you could take to the track, yet is livable day-to-day. Even with the E30 M3, it was a rather pedestrian 3-series, with an unflappable chassis. It wasn't even particularly fast from an outright speed perspective. It's most significant quality was that it was an engaging and superb drivers car.

Harris' notes seem to indicate that the F80 is more of the same.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by lsmkr01

So is that what the M3 has become... Mainly built to be a daily driver instead of a car closer to a racer that could be used as a daily?(exclude E36)

Isn't that what it allways has been?

My guess is that 90% (?) of M3 drivers never track their car. BMW needs to make a car that pleases that crowd as well as the track crowd.

But, as I said earlier, I also sense a bit of to much emphasis on the DD stuff in CH's initial preview...

[lsmkr01]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

The M3 has always been lauded as being the kind of car that you could take to the track, yet is livable day-to-day. Even with the E30 M3, it was a rather pedestrian 3-series, with an unflappable chassis. It wasn't even particularly fast from an outright speed perspective. It's most significant quality was that it was an engaging and superb drivers car.

Harris' notes seem to indicate that the F80 is more of the same.

Have you ever driven the E30 M? Its terrible in the road because it has no power until to rev it out. Same as E46 and E92. My point is now the car is built primarily as a daily.

[myzmak]

Well, if you listen to the M people that is what it has always been. It really is a 3 series that bmw have modified to be a superb driver's and track car too. It has to do both well.

If you want a track only car, get a caterham or a supercar.

If you want a cat that does both, get an M3

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by lsmkr01

Have you ever driven the E30 M? Its terrible in the road because it has no power until to rev it out. Same as E46 and E92. My point is now the car is built primarily as a daily.

The E30 M3 wasn't terrible compared to contemporary cars. It was a DD and probably performed quite well on a daily basis.

E36 M3 definitely was a DD first and foremost (you did exclude that one)

E46 M3 also a DD with sufficient mid range power to be just as driveable in day to day driving as a 328i

E9x M3 with it's broad torque band also had enough midrange power to be a DD (tons of them driving around London on a daily basis for instance). Certainly no worse as a DD than a 325i... (apart from fuel consumption...)

F8x will be even better as a DD. It's like this one can be compared to a 335d instead of a 325i as a DD. The torque of the 335d makes it more fun as a DD. But the F8x also adds the high rpm power, chassis, handling etc of all the old M3's

So, it's kinda like the M3/4 finally combines the DD fun of a engine with loads of midrange torque and the track fun of a high rpm, high HP engine

It does loose the frentic revving and some of the fun of revving it all the way to the redline I guess. And, to many that will be a negative...

[Sapper_M3]

Originally Posted by Boss330

The E30 M3 wasn't terrible compared to contemporary cars. It was a DD and probably performed quite well on a daily basis.

E36 M3 definitely was a DD first and foremost (you did exclude that one)

E46 M3 also a DD with sufficient mid range power to be just as driveable in day to day driving as a 328i

E9x M3 with it's broad torque band also had enough midrange power to be a DD (tons of them driving around London on a daily basis for instance). Certainly no worse as a DD than a 325i... (apart from fuel consumption...)

F8x will be even better as a DD. It's like this one can be compared to a 335d instead of a 325i as a DD. The torque of the 335d makes it more fun as a DD. But the F8x also adds the high rpm power, chassis, handling etc of all the old M3's

So, it's kinda like the M3/4 finally combines the DD fun of a engine with loads of midrange torque and the track fun of a high rpm, high HP engine

It does loose the frentic revving and some of the fun of revving it all the way to the redline I guess. And, to many that will be a negative...

As usual, Boss, well said.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by lsmkr01

So is that what the M3 has become... Mainly built to be a daily driver instead of a car closer to a racer that could be used as a daily?(exclude E36)

do you think your e92 is "close to a racecar"? it has......

-navigation
-heated seats
-big soundsystem
-3500+ lb curb weight

to name a few things that make it way more of a DD than a sports car or race car.

the m3 has never been close to a racecar. its based off a freaking entry level luxury car, how could it be?

[ss134]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

Yeah, I think the review basically pointed out:

e90 - more gratifying race-car like experience at the top of the tach
f8x - better daily driver experience in many ways

Makes alot of sense. Each M3 has become more daily driver oriented. The e90 was always the fat pig daily driver with a comfortable suspension compared to the e46, back in 07/08.

I understand what you're saying in regards to the S65 at the top of the tac giving you that race car experience but the F8x has superior chassis, handling and cornering characteristics as well as being much faster so don't write it off as far as that race car feel is concerned- it will still deliver those thrills just in a different way IMO

[lsmkr01]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

jokes on you if you think your e92 is "close to a racecar"

-navigation
-heated seats
-big soundsystem
-3500+ lb curb weight

to name a few things that make it way more of a DD than a sports car or race car.

the m3 has never been close to a racecar since the e30. its based off a freaking entry level luxury car, how could it be?

Relax there Kenny I was referring to the power plant.

[Rupes]

Wow, did any of you guys work for Bill Clinton's defense team during the Monica Lewinsky trial? Next your going to ask what the definition of "is" is.

These are "notes" from a car review and your dissecting every word to try and determine the meaning. I'm waiting for someone to claim the illuminati are at work here. Hey, let's take this at face value - it looks pretty positive! End of story, glad to help some folks get to sleep tonight.

[sebaflex]

the heart and soul of every M car was those beautiful high revving ITB engines. it's what gave M cars that special character.

Want a comfy DD with tons of mid range and a good enough chassis for carving canyons or hitting 1 o 2 trackdays a year? Theres a 435i MSport for that. With nice brakes and optional LSD to boot.

M3's are suppose to be track cars which you can daily drive, not daily drivers that you can track. There is a difference.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by sebaflex

the heart and soul of every M car was those beautiful high revving ITB engines. it's what gave M cars that special character.

Want a comfy DD with tons of mid range and a good enough chassis for carving canyons or hitting 1 o 2 trackdays a year? Theres a 435i MSport for that. With nice brakes and optional LSD to boot.

M3's are suppose to be track cars which you can daily drive, not daily drivers that you can track. There is a difference.

IMO, a 911 GT3 is a track car you can DD. A M3/4 is a DD you can track (and allways has been).

E92 M3 GTS is closer to a track car you can DD though.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by sebaflex

the heart and soul of every M car was those beautiful high revving ITB engines. it's what gave M cars that special character.

Want a comfy DD with tons of mid range and a good enough chassis for carving canyons or hitting 1 o 2 trackdays a year? Theres a 435i MSport for that. With nice brakes and optional LSD to boot.

M3's are suppose to be track cars which you can daily drive, not daily drivers that you can track. There is a difference.

It's not black & white, as you seem to acknowledge. The balance of the M3 has always skewed more toward a car that was livable day-to-day when compared to it's track-day contemporaries.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by sebaflex

the heart and soul of every M car was those beautiful high revving ITB engines. it's what gave M cars that special character.

Want a comfy DD with tons of mid range and a good enough chassis for carving canyons or hitting 1 o 2 trackdays a year? Theres a 435i MSport for that. With nice brakes and optional LSD to boot.

M3's are suppose to be track cars which you can daily drive, not daily drivers that you can track. There is a difference.

It is and the fact that the non M cars are more capable than many of the past M cars today should IMO ideally push the M cars even more towards the track side of the equation but instead they seem to just keep getting closer and closer to the AG cars mission and feel. An M3 is not supposed to be just a very capable and fast DD, it is IMO suppose to be a Motorsport car not only in track capabilities but in feel as well. I'm sure we'll disagree about what this feel is though as with everything else

[1stm3f80]

I heard the car in person sounded great and I happen to like thick steering wheels. Maybe he has tiny hands. Great review can't wait to pick up my car already.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by solstice

It is and the fact that the non M cars are more capable than many of the past M cars today should IMO ideally push the M cars even more towards the track side of the equation but instead they seem to just keep getting closer and closer to the AG cars mission and feel. An M3 is not supposed to be just a very capable and fast DD, it is IMO suppose to be a Motorsport car not only in track capabilities but in feel as well. I'm sure we'll disagree about what this feel is though as with everything else

It's probably still early days for the F8x. But it will be interesting to see how the F8x is received by track fanatics. It's clearly faster around a track and in a straight line, but will it be a track day favourite like the E46 M3 etc?

CH's strong emphasis on DD might be slightly worrying for the hardcore track fanatics...