Euro Delivery and winter tires

[bimmerchildM3]

Going to be picking up an M4 cabrio late October. I know I know - the winter tires are mandatory. My question is if I stay around Munich and the weather is great - can I go with regular tires? The real question is if Alianze insurace still covers the car with summer tires in regular weather.

Thoughts anyone?

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by bimmerchildM3

Going to be picking up an M4 cabrio late October. I know I know - the winter tires are mandatory. My question is if I stay around Munich and the weather is great - can I go with regular tires? The real question is if Alianze insurace still covers the car with summer tires in regular weather.

Thoughts anyone?

you should have posted this in the ED section.

That said:

(1.) No, winter tires are not mandatory - only during "wintery conditions" and there's a small fine for the first offense. Austria requires them Nov 1, France and Italy have no laws, Switzerland requires them on the passes if there's snow.

(2.) The average Munich October temp is 50^F, bring shorts in case it gets hot. Most of the Swiss passes will still be open and you won't need winter tires.

(3.) If a freak storm happens you can always just drop off the car or have them do it.

Here's 7200' at the top of the Susten pass in Switzerland, last week of October 18 months ago:

[ApexL8]

There are also services that will rent you complete wheels with winter tires. It is recommended that you reserve them early as they have a limited supply.

Not really relevant to the OP but for anyone else reading this thread that may not want AS tires on their new car.

[larryn]

I did a late November ED in 2015, and used edwintertires.com. They had a new (looking) set of the BMW factory recommended winter setup on my car upon delivery at the Welt. I also paid for comfort delivery, where they meet you at the airport and take the car to LogInOut for you. Had no problems with them at all.

[BavarianFanatic]

Counter to what's been said above, it IS mandatory to have proper winter tires regardless of conditions. But, the law is only relevant if you are unfortunate enough to have an accident. The caveat is that insurance will not cover you if you are at fault and didn't have the mandated tires mounted. It's up to you whether you're willing to roll the dice.

All of that said, you're right at the hairy edge of the requirement (I think it's mid-October from memory). I was on the other end of the spectrum this past April with a pickup a couple of weeks prior to the end of the winter tire season. I opted not to get the tires since it had been an unusually temperate winter. However, the last time I did an ED it was late November. I did rent from EDWinter tires for that one.

Bear in mind that they only have a limited number of sets - especially for M equipped cars. I suggest carefully reviewing the info in your packet/on the ED website and pick up a copy of the German farmer's almanac...

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by BavarianFanatic

Counter to what's been said above, it IS mandatory to have proper winter tires regardless of conditions.

Here's the summary of the Bavarian law (October 15th-April15th):

Winter tires are compulsory in Bavaria when driving in wintry conditions and a small fine will be levied for a first offense. If, however, the free flow of traffic has been affected due to a car not being equipped with Winter tires then the fine is doubled and the driver's license will incur a penalty point. In the event of a car fitted with Summer tires being responsible for a road accident then the fine will be further increased and 3 penalty points attributed to the license. The lack of Winter tires in such a situation will usually be judged as a significant factor in judging which driver is at fault in a traffic incident or road accident. The user of a vehicle without Winter tires may well find the motor insurance to be invalidated.

In short, winter tires are mandatory in "wintery conditions" and, to your point, if you cause an accident in those conditions, you're in trouble, but I certainly wouldn't tell someone picking up their car in October that they're "mandatory" because that's not true: if you're driving in 50^F sunny weather in Munich in October you're not violating any law, nor at any risk. On the other hand, if someone is planning on driving to Schliersee where they've just had a storm, then, yeah, winter tires are going to be required.

In Austria, for example, winter tires are mandatory Nov 1st - April 15th no matter the conditions and must be all-season tires which carry the M+S mark and

must have at least 4 mm of tread. In addition, the use of snow chains may be made compulsory by the local police when heavy snow is falling or has fallen. Failure to comply with the law results in a fine up to 5,000 Euros and the vehicle's use suspended. Insurance is deemed void if a vehicle which is involved in an accident between November 1 and April 15 is not fitted with Winter tires.

Anyway, the point is, in Bavaria (and Switzerland) they're only mandatory in "wintery conditions", but not due to the calendar like in Austria.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by BavarianFanatic

Counter to what's been said above, it IS mandatory to have proper winter tires regardless of conditions. But, the law is only relevant if you are unfortunate enough to have an accident.

This is flat-out WRONG information.
Obligation to run a vehicle on winter tires in Germany does not apply with reference to a particular date, but instead depends on the weather conditions.

More here:
https://www.wbs-law.de/eng/road-traf...germany-48118/
http://www.german-way.com/travel-and...inter-driving/

If you disagree with the above, please share the links that support your position.

Originally Posted by BavarianFanatic

The caveat is that insurance will not cover you if you are at fault and didn't have the mandated tires mounted. It's up to you whether you're willing to roll the dice.

Not exactly true either, read above.

From personal experience - I did ED in mid-December of 2014.
I was fully prepared to rent winter tires if the weather warranted such action (common sense), but the temps were in high-50s / low-60s F during the day, and dropped only into 40s at night. It would have been a waste of money and traction to go with winter tires, and everyone at the Welt agreed (not that their opinion mattered, just saying). I stayed on PSS's and they worked great.
I would not recommend PSS's over ice and show, obviously, so watch the forecast before you decide for yourself.

Munich has roughly the same winters as NYC.
It gets cold and snows eventually, though you are never sure when exactly. Some months are unusually warm, some are unusually cold.

Use your head, and equip your car with the tires appropriate for the weather during your ED. That's all the German law requires - how refreshing!

a

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by afadeev

This is flat-out WRONG information.
Obligation to run a vehicle on winter tires in Germany does not apply with reference to a particular date, but instead depends on the weather conditions.

yay for info!

Somewhat sadly, BMW isn't very clear on these points probably because they have to work with the lowest common denominator moron, so here's what the BMW ED site says

From October 15th until April 15th, driving conditions are dangerous due to ice or snow, cars must be equipped with AllSeason tires (also called 'M+S tires').

But, as you point out, this is not aligned with Bavarian (and Swiss) law which can be summarized as "don't be an idiot" Anyway, just wanted to point out where people get those dates from.

[BavarianFanatic]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

yay for info!

Somewhat sadly, BMW isn't very clear on these points probably because they have to work with the lowest common denominator moron, so here's what the BMW ED site says

From October 15th until April 15th, driving conditions are dangerous due to ice or snow, cars must be equipped with AllSeason tires (also called 'M+S tires').

But, as you point out, this is not aligned with Bavarian (and Swiss) law which can be summarized as "don't be an idiot" Anyway, just wanted to point out where people get those dates from.

That's precisely what I was quoting. Since tires need to be reserved well in advance (and I was driving in Austria) winter tires were strongly advised for my late-November trip. If truly staying near Munich odds are it won't be very cold in October. Alpine weather can change quickly and drastically, so assume nothing.

As an aside, never take for granted that others on a forum will have the same sense you do. Lowest common denominator etc., etc.

[bimmerchildM3]

Thank you everyone for the help! The real question is if I stay in Munich and the weather is nice, does insurance still cover me in an event of a non-snow related accident? Or does not having snow tires automatically cancel insurance past Oct 15th.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by BavarianFanatic

That's precisely what I was quoting. Since tires need to be reserved well in advance (and I was driving in Austria) winter tires were strongly advised for my late-November trip. If truly staying near Munich odds are it won't be very cold in October. Alpine weather can change quickly and drastically, so assume nothing.

That's an important point - equip your car with the tires for the roads you will be driving on, not just for Munich.

If you are doing an ED in Sep/Oct, and drive up a mountain pass covered in ice and snow, you will have all sorts of traction challenges and/or get a Euro 40 ticket for "wrong tires for the weather conditions.

The above scenario is even more likely in Nov/Dec, even if it's sunny and 60F in Munich.

On the other hand, if you are not planning on driving up the mountains, your tire choices may be entirely different.

Originally Posted by bimmerchildM3

Thank you everyone for the help! The real question is if I stay in Munich and the weather is nice, does insurance still cover me in an event of a non-snow related accident? Or does not having snow tires automatically cancel insurance past Oct 15th.

Yes, absolutely.
If you want to be 3x sure, call Allianz!

a

[ejonsson90]

Originally Posted by afadeev

That's an important point - equip your car with the tires for the roads you will be driving on, not just for Munich.

If you are doing an ED in Sep/Oct, and drive up a mountain pass covered in ice and snow, you will have all sorts of traction challenges and/or get a Euro 40 ticket for "wrong tires for the weather conditions.

To be fair, in July I was driving on snow the entire way up and down the Susten Pass