What’s going on with GTS prices?

[M5Rlz]

Originally Posted by SunnyD

I'm not going to argue that you can't get "damn near the experience" with a modded M4, but couldn't you make the same argument for the 1M vs. a 135? Why has the 1M held its value so well?

The difference to me manual aside, one of the last really connected road cars they've done. BMW even acknowledged it wasn't 300 exactly and they made quite a few more. I believe the BMW blog article on the 1M was like: 740 units sold in the US and a further 220 sold in Canada. Which while they'll likely be less GTS's worldwide vs. the 1M. I don't think its the same rawness that 1body with an N54 can deliver (shittt my 128i loaners you could get sideways lol let alone a 1M with manual trans)

I think the GTS will always be worth more than its M4 counterpart, and in 20-30 years I'm sure one stuck in a garage, and is the right color combo/ perfect will bring big dollars to the right buyer....

But I just don't have faith it'll be like a GT porsche car/ 458 speciale (which has very similar production numbers to the GTS) where the cars no matter what will increase. A GT porsche/speciale with 10,20k miles you'll have 100+ people lined up to pay a tad less than MSRP and not pay the collectors markups on sub 100 mile ones. Where as I think people who drive the GTS cars, will simply see a tad more value than its M4 counter part, but nothing like those above collectors cars.

Originally Posted by hi_officer

Usually, every 5-7 years a new generation of car model in unveiled. By the time to 2 or 3 generations of BMW M4 GTS/CSL or whatever passes, it will look much different than today (AWD, electric or hybrid, bigger, maybe heavier, RWS, etc.) and the current GTS will be more analog. This is when people will look back and want to experience something different but also modern enough to not piss off the wife or feel like a horse and buggy

This could be the told you it would appreciate main reason. That things shift towards self driving, automation sooooo much that these special gas/self driving cars rocket upwards. Aside from some phenomenon like that, I think it'll always be a second tier "collectors" car to the real collectors cars out there.

Originally Posted by hi_officer

The GTS is a very cool car. But I think this car has potential to appreciate in the LONG TERM (i.e. 15-20 years), not in 5 years. Many brands have their 'track-day specials' similar to the GTS (ex. Porsche GT3, MB GTR, Nissan GT-R Nismo, Corvette GS, GT350, ZL1, etc.). The GTS stands out a bit due to its over-the-top track styling and limited production, but all have their fan base.

A lot of those cars you mentioned while they don't have the advantage of such LOW LOW production numbers vs. the GTS, they have cult like followings that will always keep their values high especially in the timeframes you mentioned (15-20 years)... Whereas I don't see that for the GTS.

The one thing the GTS has going for it, production numbers, and the few unique styling items BMW hasn't offered up to the M4 owners (yet), you read the broacher about the wheels that was supposed to be an exclusive and now any joeblow can get those wheels on an M4 lol

[rosenbergendo]

Non carbon wheels under 110k is easily possible maybe even 100 flat heading to winter.

[jpdchicago]

What is funny is that, as I am writing this post, there are 16 gts for sale in Germany with an asking price ranging from $195,000 to $295,000.
Crazy when you think that the competition, the Porsche GT3 is actually cheaper there. What gives?
US dealers should ship them back to Germany!

[hi_officer]

Originally Posted by jpdchicago

What is funny is that, as I am writing this post, there are 16 gts for sale in Germany with an asking price ranging from $195,000 to $295,000.
Crazy when you think that the competition, the Porsche GT3 is actually cheaper there. What gives?
US dealers should ship them back to Germany!

You're right, unless one is purely infatuated with production numbers, he would be crazy to pay more for a GTS than a GT3 or MB GT-R. A local dealer has a GTS for sale for $122k with 300 miles (practically new). I could probably get him to go lower still, but I would gladly keep my 2018 GT3 allocation and pay $50k more.

I'm not familiar with other markets, but if my hazy memory is right Germany got about 80 GTSs. If that is the case, then roughly 20% are for sale right now. But we don't know how much they are actually selling for, they could be in the middle of a bubble or selling way below asking. What I do know is that markets outside the USA got very low volumes (China, France, etc.) which could be the reason for driving up the price. If 400 came to USA/Canada then Europe got much less than that for similar population.

Sorry to rant, but too often I see people post appreciation comments only to have their expectations let down. Once you add insurance, tax, maintenance, etc. it's hard to come out ahead even if you sell your car for more than you bought. Happens on rennlist ALL the time. Look at 991.1 GT3s and 997 GT3RSs. All depreciate over time unless you have extremely low miles, but then what's the point?

GTS should depreciate much less than normal M4s as a percentage of cost, enjoy that!

[M5Rlz]

Originally Posted by hi_officer

GTS should depreciate much less than normal M4s as a percentage of cost, enjoy that!

Agree. The guys snagging them for 106-110ish probably won't get as crushed as some guy with a fully loaded M4 with CCB + all goodies. Might in a few years get lucky and prove us speculators wrong and have a car thats increased in value.


Being picked cost me nothing and I still have the allocation spot, invite, paperwork etc. I can live with that

[RickFLM4]

http://www.chariotsofpb.com/Chariots...4S9C53GK578849

[hellrotm]

There is a bunch of secondhand ones listed for under $115k, all very low miles. One in PA with 1k miles for $109k.

[Bimmer6]

BMW IMO has depreciated the M brand with too many varients, and really hard to differentiate the produces especially with the M4 and M3. It's become a big marketing company vs car company the last 10 to 15 years as another poster mentioned. I've owned them since 1999, and my M4 may be my last BMW as they special feel in steering and weight are going the wrong direction. I sold my M5 for the M4 as I wanted a smaller car as the M5 is massive, but freaking fast.

My problem is I bought a 991S in 2013 and was in love with the feel and steering, while not crazy fast but very good. From that I went into the GT cars which you will break even on selling in two years if you can get one. Back to BMW love the M4 aggressive looks, but BMW has more work to make the turbo cars sound better as AMG does well in that category. The GTS is a interesting car as BMW tried to make it special and limit production, and values dropped on a numbered car which is not normal. I would never buy any car to expect a return cars are sunk cost so enjoy them, and if they go up great win. Porsche guys are pissing there pants trying to fine the next GT3 RS 4.0 which was a 185k car now trading close to 500k, and some where discounted at the time of sale. It's a losing game trying to guess values. Enjoy what you have and drive it, and BMW please find your way again we liked the old driver cars you use to build. M3 e46 which I could buy one new.

[jpdchicago]

Originally Posted by Bimmer6

BMW IMO has depreciated the M brand with too many varient, and really hard to differentiate the produces especially with the M4 and M3. It's become a big marketing company vs car company the last 10 to 15 years as another poster mentioned. I've owned them since 1999, and my M4 may be my last BMW as they special feel in steering and weight are going the wrong direction. I sold my M5 for the M4 as I wanted a smaller car as the M5 is massive, but freaking fast.

My problem is I bought a 991S in 2013 and was in love with the feel and steering, while not crazy fast but very good. From that I went into the GT cars which you will break even on selling in two years if you can get one. Back to BMW love the M4 aggressive looks, but BMW has more work to make the turbo cars sound better as AMG does well in that category. The GTS is a interesting car as BMW tried to make it special and limit production, and values dropped on a numbered car which is not normal. I would never buy any car to expect a return cars are sunk cost so enjoy them, and if they go up great win. Porsche guys are pissing there pants trying to fine the next GT3 RS 4.0 which was a 185k car now trading close to 500k, and some where discounted at the time of sale. It's a losing game trying to guess values. Enjoy what you have and drive it, and BMW please find your way again we liked the old driver cars you use to build. M3 e46 which I could buy one new.

As I mentioned before. Low price on the gts is a US/Canada only phenomenon. M3 gts AND M4 gts are selling at $200,000+ everywhere else in the world.
They released way too many at once on the North American market...
Considering the CS should come in at close to $100,000 (without carbon ceramics), the gts has really become a bargain.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by jpdchicago

As I mentioned before. Low price on the gts is a US/Canada only phenomenon. M3 gts AND M4 gts are selling at $200,000+ everywhere else in the world.
They released way too many at once on the North American market...
Considering the CS should come in at close to $100,000 (without carbon ceramics), the gts has really become a bargain.

It could be looked at the other way as well. The high selling price in Europe is a phenomenon and the north American market is spot on.

Just saying

[jpdchicago]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

It could be looked at the other way as well. The high selling price in Europe is a phenomenon and the north American market is spot on.

Just saying

You might be totally right. Only the future will tell. To everyone keeping one in the garage for future resale: don't. Use it and drive it! Just too much fun.
At least, in case it never increases in value you will have had a blast driving it...
You only live once.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by jpdchicago

You might be totally right. Only the future will tell. To everyone keeping one in the garage for future resale: don't. Use it and drive it! Just too much fun.
At least, in case it never increases in value you will have had a blast driving it...
You only live once.

Agreed. We all only live once. I try to remind myself of this quite often.

[Mike991M4]

under 400 miles, $118
https://hennessyporsche.com/inventor...tallic+1417483

[M5Rlz]

Originally Posted by Bimmer6

BMW IMO has depreciated the M brand with too many varient, and really hard to differentiate the produces especially with the M4 and M3. It's become a big marketing company vs car company the last 10 to 15 years as another poster mentioned. I've owned them since 1999, and my M4 may be my last BMW as they special feel in steering and weight are going the wrong direction. I sold my M5 for the M4 as I wanted a smaller car as the M5 is massive, but freaking fast.

This seems to be a german car thing as of late, they saw the appeal of slapping M, AMG, S, etc. on every car they could think of. Can't get the 60-80k intro car thats okay we'll make an AMG package, or M package, or S-Line anything you think of can get badged up from factory.

BMW seems though to have taken it one step passed everyone else with how freely they'll throw around M. At least in my humble opinion.

I don't really see this trend with American cars where they sell their signature brands Z06 package, Shelby package with Shelby everywhere, Hellcat package with little cats all over the car on your base model Charger lol

Originally Posted by jpdchicago

As I mentioned before. Low price on the gts is a US/Canada only phenomenon. M3 gts AND M4 gts are selling at $200,000+ everywhere else in the world.
They released way too many at once on the North American market...
Considering the CS should come in at close to $100,000 (without carbon ceramics), the gts has really become a bargain.

Again I think you're looking at it from a different perspective (not wrong), but to me the bigger indication that when there is ample supply, or just enough supply. Prices plummet. When supply is extremely limited there will be an extreme demand. Remember if there were say 1000 total of these cars and 500-700 are in the USA, thats a whole lot of world fighting over the other 300-500 units.

I think its a reasonable conclusion to draw that amongst the rest of the world (not including NA, as the people here can and have had the chance to buy them if they so desired and most sat). There are more than 300-500 BMW super fans who have the cash, and would pay a premium if not more for this car. Now is that number double or triple.. Who knows.

[hi_officer]

Originally Posted by 335iRlz

This seems to be a german car thing as of late, they saw the appeal of slapping M, AMG, S, etc. on every car they could think of. Can't get the 60-80k intro car thats okay we'll make an AMG package, or M package, or S-Line anything you think of can get badged up from factory.

BMW seems though to have taken it one step passed everyone else with how freely they'll throw around M. At least in my humble opinion.

I don't really see this trend with American cars where they sell their signature brands Z06 package, Shelby package with Shelby everywhere, Hellcat package with little cats all over the car on your base model Charger lol

What's worse is they all have engine proliferation. Hellcat engine in Charger, Challenger, Cherokee, Chrysler 300. Corvette / Z06 engine in Camaros, SS, ATS, CTS. Same AMG engines in C, E, CLS, S, GT cars.

BMW does it with the S55 (M2 CS and M3/4), S63 (old/new M5, M6, X5M, X6M), and even the N74 (basically all Rolls and the 760).

IMO, Sports car should have a special engine designed for that car only.

[airwave808]

Originally Posted by jpdchicago

You might be totally right. Only the future will tell. To everyone keeping one in the garage for future resale: don't. Use it and drive it! Just too much fun.
At least, in case it never increases in value you will have had a blast driving it...
You only live once.

I am buying one with 86 miles at a price that I didn't think was possible. I just need to train myself to use the toolkit.

[Osiris]

I think these cars will become a bargain soon or are now as all the other brands with similar theme go up in price. They are not investments but they are fun cars that will not lose too much value and maybe come back up in the future. Same thing happened with 1M.

[rosenbergendo]

Could 90k be coming soon?

[jeff@autocouture]

Worth about what an M4, Stealth wrapped, Clubsports, Rear Seat delete and cage costs...

65k

@alex@autocouture

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by rosenbergendo

Could 90k be coming soon?

I don't think sub $100k is out of the question. A few broke under $110k awhile ago. They simply aren't moving right now, notice the same ones on the car sites for weeks/months.

[jpdchicago]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

I don't think sub $100k is out of the question. A few broke under $110k awhile ago. They simply aren't moving right now, notice the same ones on the car sites for weeks/months.

Down to $105,000, may be... but I doubt much less when a fully optioned Competition Package M4 can reach $100,000 (a few of those for sale as well). And lets not forget the CS about to come out at close to $100,000 as well.
Interestingly, GTS prices keep going up in Europe. Even higher than my post from a week ago...(top asking price $300,000)

[SunnyD]

Originally Posted by rosenbergendo

Could 90k be coming soon?

Could sub $200K be coming soon for the .1RS now that the .2GT3 is out and faster in every performance metric?