F82 M4 / F80 M3 Shed Some Camo, Showing CSL Style Trunk, Mirrors, Carbon Fiber Seats

[Kief]

Originally Posted by auggiem3

Is the unveiling still scheduled for next weekend at Pebble Beach or do we have to wait until September for the Detroit Auto Show?

According to Scott...
M4 Concept is scheduled for 8/18 (Pebble Beach).
M3 & M4 production cars Dec 2013 Tokyo show

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

I had an interesting conversation with a colleague in Japan as I am en-route to showcase the i3 to BMW Japan.

The M3 Sedan is now expected to launch at the Tokyo Motor show in December with the M4 , X4 and another premiere for NAIAS.

The previous E90 M3 Sedan had its world premiere at Tokyo 2007 along with the BMW 1er Concept Tii.

[mkoesel]

^^^

Although it is ambiguous, I believe he is saying that the M3 will be in Tokyo while the M4 is still on for Detroit.

Any of this is of course still subject to change.

[mkoesel]

I understand where you are coming from.

However, I think that Nitschke was actually quite vague about the specific use of CF in the body shell itself. That has led to a fair bit of variation in speculation over the past couple weeks about the role it will play in the F8x. I also wanted to emphasize some possible challenges specific to the M3/M4 that the i3 may not have had to face.

Originally Posted by solstice

mkoesel,I think you got me wrong. I think the M-boss was quite open with where weight is saved and what materials is used in the different areas. My comment was mostly in regards to the fear that the car will be super expensive if any significant use of CFRP and the notion that hardly any weight can be saved from the E9X and that 3300 lbs is impossible at a reasonable price point. I don't expect a Sesto Elemento chassi but I think some of you will be surprised. With a CFRP trunk, seats and CF roof I think they already have "a lot" of CF in what we can pretty much lock down. With significant use of aluminum and magnesium in some strategic areas being confirmed as well it's reason for optimism IMO.

[Kief]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

^^^

Although it is ambiguous, I believe he is saying that the M3 will be in Tokyo while the M4 is still on for Detroit.

Any of this is of course still subject to change.

That's what I thought also. I actually asked Jason in the Sticky above to check the update regarding the release for both in Detroit as per Scott's post. But then when I was just posted in this Thread, I reread Scott's post and it reads as if both will be shown in Tokyo. Who knows, lets just get on with it already!!!

Never mind, I think we both read it correct the first time. Scott needed a comma after the word "December" (December, with the M4, X4, and another premiere...)
Okay, I'm spending too much time on this topic!

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

I had an interesting conversation with a colleague in Japan as I am en-route to showcase the i3 to BMW Japan.

The M3 Sedan is now expected to launch at the Tokyo Motor show in December with the M4 , X4 and another premiere for NAIAS.

The previous E90 M3 Sedan had its world premiere at Tokyo 2007 along with the BMW 1er Concept Tii.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by solstice

I think the curb weight will start with 33 when configured optimally. We'll see.

Do you disagree with the point that volume is one of the biggest keys to cost, whether composite or metallic? To understand what was achieved in the i3 we must know its projected volume, period.

I definitely want you to place your money where your mouth is on that speculation. The NA curb weight for the M4 with no expensive weight saving optional equipment (such as CSiC brakes or CF seats if even available in NA) absolutely won't be 33XX. How about a friendly wager? I think mkoesel also has a similar wager going with another member. They agreed to pay the winnings to a charity.

[executor]

Originally Posted by ShaneV78

Did anyone else notice that in Picture 7, the bottom of the gauges are open? On all 3/4 Series so far the rings have been closed and the display only works on the right (BMW cost cutting I guess) but here it appears they may have a display spanning both gauges...

One can hope...

I hope they will have special gauges for M3/4. However, from the picture, it's hard to tell. Since For normal 3/4 with NAVI package, it looks the same at this angle. The gauges are open for 3/4 but the actual screen is only extended from middle to the right. Hope the M3/4 have a pretty different gauges and HUD.

[pkimM3r]

why are the wheels so huge? it gives it a 4x4 stance...lol

[solstice]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Do you disagree with the point that volume is one of the biggest keys to cost, whether composite or metallic? To understand what was achieved in the i3 we must know its projected volume, period.

I definitely want you to place your money where your mouth is on that speculation. The NA curb weight for the M4 with no expensive weight saving optional equipment (such as CSiC brakes or CF seats if even available in NA) absolutely won't be 33XX. How about a friendly wager? I think mkoesel also has a similar wager going with another member. They agreed to pay the winnings to a charity.

Swamp, first let's try to tone it down a bit. We are two car enthusiasts discussing a new BMW not if we are to invade a country or not. I'm not a betting man and certainly not on the Internet with strangers but I like to buy a friend a beer so how about you ping me if you come to Seattle and if I'm wrong I'll buy you a brew or two?

Unlike yourself I think the CF seats will be an important part of the weight savings as discussed earlier so they are absolutely part of my 33XX guess. With optimally configured I meant optimally for lowest weight.

The i3 is 2700 lbs but it's extremely different so volume alone will only tell some of the story. To me it's the fact that it contains a lot of CFRP and will be offered at ~40k that is the most interresting in relation to an F8X not the resulting weight since it's truly an apples to oranges comparo.

[sor]

Originally Posted by SG335Xi

Fanboys aside... I think it looks kinda ugly.

So you like the look of the fanboys, just not the new M?

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by solstice

Swamp, first let's try to tone it down a bit. We are two car enthusiasts discussing a new BMW not if we are to invade a country or not. I'm not a betting man and certainly not on the Internet with strangers but I like to buy a friend a beer so how about you ping me if you come to Seattle and if I'm wrong I'll buy you a brew or two?

Unlike yourself I think the CF seats will be an important part of the weight savings as discussed earlier so they are absolutely part of my 33XX guess. With optimally configured I meant optimally for lowest weight.

The i3 is 2700 lbs but it's extremely different so volume alone will only tell some of the story. To me it's the fact that it contains a lot of CFRP and will be offered at ~40k that is the most interresting in relation to an F8X not the resulting weight since it's truly an apples to oranges comparo.

I hope you are not misinterpreting my tone. Perhaps stated even stronger, I apologize if I came across as too aggressive. We always have and continue to have very good banter and debates here. I just think you are borderline googly eyed over the weight prospects for the new car. I'm not really a betting man myself either except in cases where I'm 100% or nearly 100% confident in not losing . The bet, especially giving the money to charity, was supposed to be serious but very light hearted.

With various options like transmission (probably not an option any longer in the M4) and for some cars the engine, a brochure or OEMs website will typically need to contain multiple curb weight figures. "The" weight of this new car will almost for sure be with an M-DCT and without CF seats since they most likely will not be available as an NA OEM option. We already know the CSiC brakes will be an option and a really pricey one. I believe the weight savings for the M6 CSiC brakes is right about 43 lb and the cost a whopping $9250. Would you also include those in your 33xx figure? BMW absolutely does not count this in their single curb weight figure for the M5/M6.

Seats or not, I'd still have 2 beers on you up in your neck of the woods if the second digit of the weight is greater than 3. Unfortunately, I don't travel to Seattle much any more. Cheers.

[solstice]

Sounds good swamp, I enjoy good debates especially when they are on topic and friendly. Let's wait and see what curb weight they will announce with the launch in December. I'm not going to guess if it's with or without the lightweight seats and CCBs etc. But I would not be surprised if they announce the lowest weight in some context since they have expressed it to be a main goal and I'm sure they want to look like they've done well but we'll see.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by solstice

Sounds good swamp, I enjoy good debates especially when they are on topic and friendly. Let's wait and see what curb weight they will announce with the launch in December. I'm not going to guess if it's with or without the lightweight seats and CCBs etc. But I would not be surprised if they announce the lowest weight in some context since they have expressed it to be a main goal and I'm sure they want to look like they've done well but we'll see.

I too wouldn't put it past them to quote some figure in a press release including all of the lightest options such at CSiC brakes and perhaps CF seats. Of course the number in NA on their website will then be significantly higher. BMW is "clever" like this and they will want to draw attention to their success, real and/or imagined on weight management.

[M-Maniac]

The wheels look concave... That improves that broad stance drammatically.

[Uli_HH]

As I posted before ... common sence in german BMW forums and the newest car magazin articles is an EU-weight from below 1.500kg / 3.306lbs for an standard configurated (german!) car ... this meens more standard equipment than the E9xM3 incl. M-DCT but without extras like the the CCBs and the CRT-seats.

Also Dr.Nitschke says in his last Interview that the F8xs would be lighter than the F3x .35is.

Greets Uli_HH

[RingMeister01]

BMW is saving A LOT of money choosing to develop the N55 to the S55. By not having to allocate funds for R&D for a completely separate motor (like they did for the S65) they can transfer those saving towards lightweight tech and thus there may be a good chance to see a significant reduction in weight over the F3x platform... I would hope.

[Uli_HH]

Originally Posted by RingMeister01

BMW is saving A LOT of money choosing to develop the N55 to the S55. By not having to allocate funds for R&D for a completely separate motor (like they did for the S65) they can transfer those saving towards lightweight tech and thus there may be a good chance to see a significant reduction in weight over the F3x platform... I would hope.

I don't think that the S55 was developed from / based on the N55 ... the rumors in the german M-Forum - where also members oft the M-GmbH are posting - goes in an other direction.
S55 meens only hat the engine was the fifth 6-cylinder of the M-GmbH and not on which engine it would be based !!!

[RingMeister01]

Originally Posted by Uli_HH

I don't think that the S55 was developed from / based on the N55 ... the rumors in the german M-Forum - where also members oft the M-GmbH are posting - goes in an other direction.
S55 meens only hat the engine was the fifth 6-cylinder of the M-GmbH and not on which engine it would be based !!!

Hhmmm. Sexy.

[Remonster]

Originally Posted by swamp2

I too wouldn't put it past them to quote some figure in a press release including all of the lightest options such at CSiC brakes and perhaps CF seats. Of course the number in NA on their website will then be significantly higher. BMW is "clever" like this and they will want to draw attention to their success, real and/or imagined on weight management.

Curb weight is measured with standard equipment, that means manual transmission, standard brakes, whatever seats are standard, etc. BMW can advertise how much extra weight each of these options saves, but they can't use optional equipment for official curb weight figures. This type of thing is regulated in both the EU and US.

[///Mangler]

Originally Posted by Uli_HH

I don't think that the S55 was developed from / based on the N55 ... the rumors in the german M-Forum - where also members oft the M-GmbH are posting - goes in an other direction.
S55 meens only hat the engine was the fifth 6-cylinder of the M-GmbH and not on which engine it would be based !!!

There is no S51 or 53. So it's the forth.

T

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by Remonster

Curb weight is measured with standard equipment, that means manual transmission, standard brakes, whatever seats are standard, etc. BMW can advertise how much extra weight each of these options saves, but they can't use optional equipment for official curb weight figures. This type of thing is regulated in both the EU and US.

I'm not so sure this is exactly correct. When there are different engine and transmission options those weights are quoted. If the automatic transmission is an option then yes the manual will be quoted. However, for the M4, I believe it may only be offered only with M-DCT (as the M5 is). Also I believe the curb weight does include a variety of things such as premium audio, leather, power seats, etc. in a way such that the maximums are captured by the specification. Leave that stuff out and you will end up with a car lighter than the given BMW figure.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by Uli_HH

As I posted before ... common sence in german BMW forums and the newest car magazin articles is an EU-weight from below 1.500kg / 3.306lbs for an standard configurated (german!) car ... this meens more standard equipment than the E9xM3 incl. M-DCT but without extras like the the CCBs and the CRT-seats.

Also Dr.Nitschke says in his last Interview that the F8xs would be lighter than the F3x .35is.

Greets Uli_HH

Let's keep hoping. I still doubt it. Also an "apples to apples" comparison with the current 335i should use the 335i figures with the DCT. Those figures are unladen weight EU: 1615 kg (3560 lb). The 335is is a bit heavier at 3593 lb (with DCT). Can the new M4 be lighter than 3593 lb - yes quite easily and most probably it will be. However, that is almost 300 lb of difference though down to 3306 lb!

[Jadar]

Originally Posted by Ali@BMWMt.laurel

Cannot wait to order!

That frozen white looks amazing. Any idea what the base price would be for an M3? I'm hoping low 60's but I may be way off base. I think the m4 will be 70k. Makes it so hard to go that route when the new cayman s is 70k with a few options.

But man does that F80 look hot!