Video: Our Ride in the M4 Where Bruno Spengler Talks EPS, Turbos and Transmission

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Don't equate heft with feel. Not the same.

Many excellent helms are very light but buzzing with feedback. BMW has been trending in the opposite direction.

Are you speaking from recent experience or just perpetuating myths?
If the latter, go test drive an Xdrive S28 and please report back.

[MCoupeInsanity]

Originally Posted by OilPatch

Impressive numbers, and I'm sure it's a quick car. I just think this new line of M cars has lost it's soul. I'm glad I pulled the trigger and got a 2013 instead of waiting for this. This is the first time in forever a new m3 isn't something I desire.

You mean the new M3 that isn't out yet and that you only know random little snippets about? That is the one you've concluded has lost its soul, and you don't desire?

Congratulations.

[Sir Loin]

Thanks for sharing the videos. With the pictures from the recent write-ups, I haven't seen a picture with DCT and, more importantly (to me :-)), steering wheel with gear shifting LED indicator.

Any rumor suggests that the LED steering wheel will be an option with DCT? Thanks.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by Sir Loin

Thanks for sharing the videos. With the pictures from the recent write-ups, I haven't seen a picture with DCT and, more importantly (to me :-)), steering wheel with gear shifting LED indicator.

Several photos of DCT equipped car can be found here:

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=892746 (scroll to the gallery).

The cars driven by Farfus and Glock have DCT.

[nonagon]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Don't equate heft with feel. Not the same.

True, not the same. I was really commenting on the "light and artificial" X3 steering comment, which is simply not true when the car is in Sport/Sport+. It does lack some of the road-connected feel of a good hydraulic setup, but it's direct, accurate and not at all numb. And the added tightness gives it a sporty feel. EPS does not automatically equal bad...but generally I agree, a good hydraulic setup would likely be superior in feel. We'll see how the F80 and F82 fare in this regard.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

The xdrive s28 has electric steering. And having driven it, rather than written about it on a webpage....... sorry... not painting a rosy picture. I drove the damn thing across town to two different car guy friends to have them try it... because obviously, had i just told them it was actually quiet satisfying to drive.. they would have tried to shoot me down like you!


The fact that BMW M scrapped one system and redesigned another, is EXACTLY my point, that the technology is evolving.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/partgrp.d...id=53262&hg=32

1. I think you are mis-informed about this. It's hydraulic. See link above, this is a 2013 build.
2. I have driven it. Had one as a loaner. Felt just like an E90. Because it's the same steering.

I've driven EPS in 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014 F10's, 2012 and 2013 X3's, 2013 640 GC, etc. The LCI F10 is starting to approach decent, and the GC was decent too.

I see your point you were trying to make. My point was that Porsche went from "meh" in the C2 and C4 991 to "wow!" in the 991 GT3 with just software. BMW had to throw out the baby AND the bathwater and start with new hardware. So I don't expect the series cars to approach what the new M3 should feel like.

Yes, EPS is getting much better. I am looking forward to driving the M3 (god knows I'll never drive a 991 GT3) but even the latest F10 LCI is just "ok".

To me, E46 remains the benchmark.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Are you speaking from recent experience or just perpetuating myths?
If the latter, go test drive an Xdrive S28 and please report back.

Driven, see post above.

[kardboard]

Yeah I'm talking about the RPM he reaches not what he hits

[Suave]

The Engine sounds are outstanding! Engine has a lot of grunt and at least from this video, does not give up any Grunt character of the V-8.

[Sir Loin]

Originally Posted by Jason

Several photos of DCT equipped car can be found here:

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=892746 (scroll to the gallery).

The cars driven by Farfus and Glock have DCT.

Thanks Jason. I hope the cool LED steering wheel will be an option.

[LDSM]

Originally Posted by Snig

This is what people said about the E9x M3...



...and now look at em' complaining about the next generation.

And you have to admit, the below exerpt is pretty funny... especially since his prediction at the end was pretty damn accurate!

From 2008: Unbiased Road Review http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=222065

Just thought I would share my experience of test driving four different BMW's in one day...

(Comparison of Z4M coupe, roadster, and 135i)

4.)2008 E92 M3: I am sad to say I was significantly dissapointed with the new M3. I tried to be open with it, but it just doesn't strike the proper chords with what I think a M3 should be, that coupled with bangle influence and a much larger appearance (GT realm) I left with a frown : (

First off, aside from gaining significant weight, I give BMW props for making it feel and handle like it is much lighter than the hefty 3704lbs curb weight. I was very impressed with the light feel, I was expecting it too feel heavier and sluggish, but it was the opposite. Steering was numb, brakes were strong, but not on par with ZCP brakes, maybe cause they were new? Finally the power...well the power just wasn't there. I couldn't get over the lack of torque, and it only felt slightly quicker than my e46!! This car did NOT feel like 414 BHP, the 135i pushed me deeper in my seat (I know the 135i has 5 more ft/lbs of torque, but come on it's a freaking 414 BHP M3!!!!) What gives. I touched beyond 8k with the pedal stuffed ?

I made sure the DCS was off and the power button was activated. The sales guy said he was certain it was setup for full power. I asked if maybe they dumbed it down for the 1200 mile break in period. He reluctantly came back and informed after talking with a tech that yes, they do de-tune them for break-in purposes, about 100hp ?? Can anyone verify this? If thats the case that explains it.

Long story short, the car just feels numb and sounds all wrong, I cannot get used to the V8 rumble. No soul in this M3 IMHO. BMW needs to bring back the heritage of the straight six and throw on some turbos to compete in the HP wars, either that or stay N/A and get some tips from Lotus and lose a lot of baby fat. Just my .02

I remember when people completely blasted the E92 body style, they said it looked horrible compared to the E46, blah, blah....and now the E92 is a classic

[BMWintoxication]

...so the sound of the engine is from the speakers inside the car eh?

[Kuwen]

Originally Posted by BMWintoxication

...so the sound of the engine is from the speakers inside the car eh?

I do not believe Jason has come back with firm confirmation of this; the last I saw was only that the method of sound amplification was not as bad as the M5/M6.

My fingers are still crossed.

[kornykidd0]

Man some of you guys always have something to complain about. I'm sure the auto-blip on the transmission will be defeatable with a simple button press. Either way I'm willing to assume very few of you guys have played around with the synchro rev match (exactly what this is) that was first introduced with the 370z. It's an absolute blast, and fully defeated with a button push. I love heel-toe as much as the next guy, but perfect, pain free downshifts every time with no jumpiness is damn fun.

[jjurroz]

It's already been mentioned in the details that came out that the Sport+ mode disables the rev matching. This is the mode that most will be in anyway and I'm sure with coding, you could set this mode as default upon startup. Non-issue really.

-Jose

Originally Posted by kornykidd0

Man some of you guys always have something to complain about. I'm sure the auto-blip on the transmission will be defeatable with a simple button press. Either way I'm willing to assume very few of you guys have played around with the synchro rev match (exactly what this is) that was first introduced with the 370z. It's an absolute blast, and fully defeated with a button push. I love heel-toe as much as the next guy, but perfect, pain free downshifts every time with no jumpiness is damn fun.

[xlover]

Originally Posted by Kuwen

I do not believe Jason has come back with firm confirmation of this; the last I saw was only that the method of sound amplification was not as bad as the M5/M6.

My fingers are still crossed.

+1 diligently waiting for the details

[UNO///M]

Originally Posted by InquisitiveA

Yes, pure iMitation engine noise...

what a disappointment .

[Jason]

Originally Posted by Kuwen

I do not believe Jason has come back with firm confirmation of this; the last I saw was only that the method of sound amplification was not as bad as the M5/M6.

My fingers are still crossed.

Originally Posted by xlover

+1 diligently waiting for the details

Will post something tomorrow. Just waiting for confirmation on one last detail.

[FogCityM3]

hmmm..some criticisms coming thru from the driving events:

By: Greg Kable on 9/25/2013

BMW's M division claims its new twin-turbocharged 3.0-liter inline six-cylinder engine is every bit as good -- if not better -- than the glorious, naturally aspirated 4.0-liter V8 powerplant it replaces in the new M3 sedan and M4 coupe. The figures are certainly impressive. They say it kicks out 424 hp and more than 25 percent extra torque, with what is described as significantly more than 369 lb-ft below 2,000 rpm.

No lack of grunt, then. But as I sit next to Martin Tomczyk -- one of a trio of factory drivers BMW's M division has brought to the unveiling of the new engine at a test track north of Munich -- in an M4 coupe prototype mule ready to head out for a couple of hot laps, I'm not so sure the move to forced induction is going to be met with quite the same enthusiasm as that shown by the men from BMW M.

The sound of the new engine lacks the sheer intensity of its predecessor, both mechanically and in the sound of the exhaust. As Tomczyk, a former DTM champion, fires the camouflaged coupe off the line with a heavy dumping of the clutch and a big dose of right foot, the primary aural accompaniment is an uncomfortable whooshing of the turbochargers -- a pair of IHI units operating at a maximum 1.3 bar of boost pressure. Up into second, third and fourth gears, I detect a rising in the rate of revs, but whereas the mechanical attributes of the engine used to be a headlining act, they are now a distant play in the driving experience.

Down the slip lanes and through a series of witches hats at speeds touching 100 mph, the revs rise, then fall, but the exhaust note remains disappointingly flat. The BMW M division has developed a new cross-flow muffler with flaps that open to direct the exhausts straight to the tail pipes at higher engine loads. It is supposed to enhance the sound. However, it fails to endow the new M4 with anywhere near the aural force of the old M3 coupe. The M4 prototype could well be a regular 435i with an M-Sport exhaust, or so it sounded. When we return to the staging area, I let my feelings be known to a group of engineers. I'm told the engine lacks the latest developments, which comes as a bit of a relief. I can only hope the production car, due to go on sale in North America in May, sounds better. With such pedigree, it ought to.

http://www.autoweek.com/article/2013...NEWS/130929888

[SoCalS2k]

That guy wrote an entire article to complain about the sound from the inside and on a preproduction car? . Talk about wanting to complain for the sake of grabbing headlines. Greg Kable: come back to us when you've driven one.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by SoCalS2k

That guy wrote an entire article to complain about the sound from the inside and on a preproduction car? . Talk about wanting to complain for the sake of grabbing headlines. Greg Kable: come back to us when you've driven one.

Does driving one change the sound?

[SoCalS2k]

Sure if you drive a production model instead of complaining about a prepro car.