Video: Our Ride in the M4 Where Bruno Spengler Talks EPS, Turbos and Transmission

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Jason

Just confirmed that there is some sound enhancement, but not in the same way as on the M5/M6. Will post more on this later.

Originally Posted by Jason

Will post something tomorrow. Just waiting for confirmation on one last detail.

Ask whether it is similar to the sound enhancement featured in the M5/M6 or rather like the one featured in the M135i.

M135i with sound symposer plugged in (stock):

M135i with sound symposer unplugged (silicone breast implants removed ):

[krnnerdboy]

The best news regarding the new m3/4 for me is that the e90/2 m3 will be dropping in price! But seriously, I've never been unimpressed by any gen m3

[111R]

I don't understand why BMW wouldn't put this "amazing" electronic steering setup on all of their cars. Why numb and dumb it down in the non-M cars when all of the reviewers keep complaining about it?

Hopefully it has just been recently developed (reason why its not on the m5/m6) and will find its way into all of the cars with electronic steering.

+1. This really needs to be fixed across the board on the F3x cars, as BMW is blowing their reputation on this one issue.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by nonagon

Did the X3 that you drove have DHP? Because steering feel is leaps and bounds better in Sport/Sport+. And obviously the M3/M4 would be leaps and bounds better than that...I love the BMW hydraulic systems of the past but electronic systems are improving and it's possible that they got it right in the new M cars.

I just asked the owner, and the X3 I drive does NOT have DHP. The steering is the major frustration he has with the X3 and I was driving the X1 and couldnt see the issue so I drove across town so we could both experiment. THe X1 was leaps and bounds better. The transmission shifting in the X1 is also far better with less hunting and smoother shifts as well. he was able to find that the X3 was a lot better shifting when the shift lever was moved to the sport mode.

I think it's clear that this technology is evolving rapidly. I don't know that much about it but it seems clear that these are simply algorithms that are being sorted through. I also imagine that they can be updated fairly easily via a software update.

[nonagon]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

I just asked the owner, and the X3 I drive does NOT have DHP. The steering is the major frustration he has with the X3 and I was driving the X1 and couldnt see the issue so I drove across town so we could both experiment. THe X1 was leaps and bounds better. The transmission shifting in the X1 is also far better with less hunting and smoother shifts as well. he was able to find that the X3 was a lot better shifting when the shift lever was moved to the sport mode.

Yeah, an X3 35i with DHP set to Sport or Sport+ is a different beast altogether. You'd be surprised. Steering, throttle response, shifting, suspension all get more aggressive and responsive. The car really comes alive and is a lot more fun to drive. I wouldn't spec another BMW without DHP, given the option.

[Koldun]

Originally Posted by kdbryce

that thing sounds amazing. my faith in BMW is starting to be restored.

however, as far as the automatic "blipping" on the 6mt, what does that mean for us drivers who like to heel-toe and manually rev match when downshifting quickly?

The manual car has a paddle on the steering wheel that turns this feature on/off.

[Holset]

Originally Posted by Koldun

The manual car has a paddle on the steering wheel that turns this feature on/off.

Sounds good but how do you know this?

[V8FunNaturally]

Originally Posted by Never Convicted

That's understandable. Whenever there's a new generation vehicle, there's always a certain % of previous model owners who don't repurchase. They "age out" as they say in the marketing world. They're replaced by a mostly younger demographic who are more open to new advancements and technological improvements. You're happier with a heavier, less efficient, slower car. That's great for you.

I would much rather skip this new I6 TT gen M3 and have the V8 gloriously sounding M3 with dynamic response at all RPM (no turbo) and flawless lines. Wait that is what I did for the joy of driving. Two things are on top of my list: fun to drive and fondamental flawless design lines. I think the E92 wins on both counts.

[V8FunNaturally]

That engine sounds really boring, kind like firecrackers.
If we were comparing to motorcycles I would say the F82 sounds like a harley, dull and monotonous and the E92 sounds like a race bike (or ferrari ).

[IS3andME]

Originally Posted by sunsweet

I would much rather skip this new I6 TT gen M3 and have the V8 gloriously sounding M3 with dynamic response at all RPM (no turbo) and flawless lines. Wait that is what I did for the joy of driving. Two things are on top of my list: fun to drive and fondamental flawless design lines. I think the E92 wins on both counts.

Man, you haven't even driven the new M4/M3 yet...Common sense would dictate that the performance envelope for the F8X has surpassed the e9X...
that being said, I would prefer the e46 M3 over the e92.

[V8FunNaturally]

Originally Posted by IS3andME

Man, you haven't even driven the new M4/M3 yet...Common sense would dictate that the performance envelope for the F8X has surpassed the e9X...
that being said, I would prefer the e46 M3 over the e92.

We'll see about the testdrive but i speak based on turbo'd engines versus NA aspirated ones. NA are always more fun ( Porsche GT3 versus PTurbo, E92 M3 versus 335i or even GT-R). It is because a naturally aspirated engine responds dynamically to throttle not having to spin a turbo to get a charge boost to deliver. So in those corners and in dynamic driving situation you are going to have more fun in the E92 M3 because of the sensation of being connected to your engine. Plus you get amazing engine sound harmonics which is not to be underestimated. Also the active hydraulic steering with servotronic gives much better feedback than an electric steering.

I do like the E46 as well (Especially the small convertible) but the E92 M3 sounds much better and drives better.

[V8FunNaturally]

I know professional audio engineering very well, I have experience in that field and I can easily see through marketing language being used here. When they say not artificial sound, that is wordplay. From the time a signal is sampled it is no longer natural as it always gets colored by the microphone spectral response, location of the microphone, resonant cavity the microphone is placed in to shape the sound spectrum or transform it. It will happen anyway. They can easily put the microphone is a tube or cavity that will act like an acoustical filter and that will completely modify the spectrum of the sound. Digitally sampling the sound of an engine you already need to apply an antialiasing filter (you don't want the wind noise to fold down in spectrum and mix with your low frequencies). There is nothing natural about what they are doing. Nowadays you can easily digitally sample any sound, apply the desired frequency transformation to it to make it sound different without amplification. It has nothing to do with playing pre recorded sounds, all this can be done real time. There is no debate here, they have this because the true engine sound is terrible. If you contend with this show me your PhD degree in acoustics or signal processing.

[RMB]

Originally Posted by sunsweet

I know professional audio engineering very well, I have experience in that field and I can easily see through marketing language being used here. When they say not artificial sound, that is wordplay. From the time a signal is sampled it is no longer natural as it always gets colored by the microphone spectral response, location of the microphone, resonant cavity the microphone is placed in to shape the sound spectrum or transform it. It will happen anyway. They can easily put the microphone is a tube or cavity that will act like an acoustical filter and that will completely modify the spectrum of the sound. Digitally sampling the sound of an engine you already need to apply an antialiasing filter (you don't want the wind noise to fold down in spectrum and mix with your low frequencies). There is nothing natural about what they are doing. Nowadays you can easily digitally sample any sound, apply the desired frequency transformation to it to make it sound different without amplification. It has nothing to do with playing pre recorded sounds, all this can be done real time. There is no debate here, they have this because the true engine sound is terrible. If you contend with this show me your PhD degree in acoustics or signal processing.

Wow, you "sound" like you know your stuff (no pun intended). On an unrelated note I think you would be the person to talk to about audio equipment, and also high performance cars. Thanks for your input and your explanation was very good, but clearly out of my field so I am going with your explanation.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by sunsweet

I know professional audio engineering very well, I have experience in that field and I can easily see through marketing language being used here. When they say not artificial sound, that is wordplay. From the time a signal is sampled it is no longer natural as it always gets colored by the microphone spectral response, location of the microphone, resonant cavity the microphone is placed in to shape the sound spectrum or transform it. It will happen anyway. They can easily put the microphone is a tube or cavity that will act like an acoustical filter and that will completely modify the spectrum of the sound. Digitally sampling the sound of an engine you already need to apply an antialiasing filter (you don't want the wind noise to fold down in spectrum and mix with your low frequencies). There is nothing natural about what they are doing. Nowadays you can easily digitally sample any sound, apply the desired frequency transformation to it to make it sound different without amplification. It has nothing to do with playing pre recorded sounds, all this can be done real time. There is no debate here, they have this because the true engine sound is terrible. If you contend with this show me your PhD degree in acoustics or signal processing.

I'm with this guy.

[IS3andME]

Originally Posted by sunsweet

We'll see about the testdrive but i speak based on turbo'd engines versus NA aspirated ones. NA are always more fun ( Porsche GT3 versus PTurbo, E92 M3 versus 335i or even GT-R). It is because a naturally aspirated engine responds dynamically to throttle not having to spin a turbo to get a charge boost to deliver. So in those corners and in dynamic driving situation you are going to have more fun in the E92 M3 because of the sensation of being connected to your engine. Plus you get amazing engine sound harmonics which is not to be underestimated. Also the active hydraulic steering with servotronic gives much better feedback than an electric steering.

I do like the E46 as well (Especially the small convertible) but the E92 M3 sounds much better and drives better.

Yeah, I understand all that...but I think they will not disappoint on the new one, except in the exhaust note...

[IS3andME]

Originally Posted by sunsweet

I know professional audio engineering very well, I have experience in that field and I can easily see through marketing language being used here. When they say not artificial sound, that is wordplay. From the time a signal is sampled it is no longer natural as it always gets colored by the microphone spectral response, location of the microphone, resonant cavity the microphone is placed in to shape the sound spectrum or transform it. It will happen anyway. They can easily put the microphone is a tube or cavity that will act like an acoustical filter and that will completely modify the spectrum of the sound. Digitally sampling the sound of an engine you already need to apply an antialiasing filter (you don't want the wind noise to fold down in spectrum and mix with your low frequencies). There is nothing natural about what they are doing. Nowadays you can easily digitally sample any sound, apply the desired frequency transformation to it to make it sound different without amplification. It has nothing to do with playing pre recorded sounds, all this can be done real time. There is no debate here, they have this because the true engine sound is terrible. If you contend with this show me your PhD degree in acoustics or signal processing.

I see right thru it as well. Just as you said, it is not natural after the signal has been sampled...
They can't fool people such as yourself who know their ish.

[Never Convicted]

Originally Posted by sunsweet

I would much rather skip this new I6 TT gen M3 and have the V8 gloriously sounding M3 with dynamic response at all RPM (no turbo) and flawless lines. Wait that is what I did for the joy of driving. Two things are on top of my list: fun to drive and fondamental flawless design lines. I think the E92 wins on both counts.

Thanks for proving my point. Since you can't point to any performance aspect that's superior, you justify it to yourself by waxing poetic about mostly enjoying the sound and other intangibles. You become a Luddite when it comes to progress and innovation, since BMW should have stopped improving right after they made your car. Next, it's talking about "kids these days," because you obviously know what's important and what's not. So, someone else takes your spot in the line and buys the F8X that's not glorious enough for you. So it is, so it will ever be.

[RMB]

Originally Posted by Never Convicted

Thanks for proving my point. Since you can't point to any performance aspect that's superior, you justify it to yourself by waxing poetic about mostly enjoying the sound and other intangibles. You become a Luddite when it comes to progress and innovation, since BMW should have stopped improving right after they made your car. Next, it's talking about "kids these days," because you obviously know what's important and what's not. So, someone else takes your spot in the line and buys the F8X that's not glorious enough for you. So it is, so it will ever be.

I like the last line, it reminded me of "Talking Heads",

[Rookie84]

Although I hate active sound, it is not a deal breaker for me. I am sure there will be some ways to disable it.

I don't think it's the matter of true engine sound being terrible. To me, straight six engines all have beautiful sound. I am especially partial to turbo straight six because I used to own a Supra. I loved the sound. I think it's more of a matter with cabin sound proofing being so good in modern cars, especially BMW.

As for the turbo lag, it really isn't a issue at mid to high RPMs. As long as turbo is within operating RPMs, throttle response is not a problem for me. Some of the fasted time attack cars are turbo. Sure, NA's response will be always better. However, with modern technology such as twin-scroll(well, not really new tech but I see it being used on production cars more and more these days), turbos also have pretty decent power while providing great power potential. I will take a good turbo setup over a NA simply because of the power potential as simple exhaust and ECU tune can easily provide 50+hp on cars like M4.