Best way to add power to M4 CP?

[SizerM4]

I'm finally in a position to own such a car like an M4 and want to add extra power and noise to it but with so many options available, what do people recommend with availability to the uk?
I have pretty much decided on the Akrapovic evo exhaust with downpipes and Eventuri cold air intake system but after that I will swing from one way to the other.
I hope you can help?
Many Thanks

[SD ///M4]

These mods, if they added any power at all, it would be negligible. Noise, yes, but no on the power.

[SizerM4]

Originally Posted by SD ///M4

These mods, if they added any power at all, it would be negligible. Noise, yes, but no on the power.

That's a fair point bud, which is why I've put this point up. There's so many options out there, I want to make sure I get the best as possible and it all gets a little confusing after a while lol

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by SizerM4

That's a fair point bud, which is why I've put this point up. There's so many options out there, I want to make sure I get the best as possible and it all gets a little confusing after a while lol

Jb stage 1 will give you the most for your money

If you want more power get Jb4 and catless downpipe

[Daxos]

I have the full Akra exhaust and went with the VF Engineering stage 2 tune and am very happy with the results. The car makes a lot more power, the power is consistent and their service is superb. I believe they have a certified installer in the UK, too.

[CPWINCH]

JB$ and catless downpipes' Everything else is a waste

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by CPWINCH

JB$ and catless downpipes' Everything else is a waste

Bang for the buck

[thebatman]

M3/4 are not cheap cars. Give it the respect it deserves and get a proper bench flash tune. You won't be disappointed.

[LOW4LYF]

Originally Posted by thebatman

M3/4 are not cheap cars. Give it the respect it deserves and get a proper bench flash tune. You won't be disappointed.

Lol... yes, a M3/M4 is not a cheap car. But why a bench flash is better then piggyback?

[thebatman]

Originally Posted by Figurka

Lol... yes, a M3/M4 is not a cheap car. But why a bench flash is better then piggyback?

Tricking a car by saying it's underperforming so the ECU has to up its boost setting vs remapping the car to always perform at a higher setting.

[CaryTheLabelGuy]

Originally Posted by thebatman

M3/4 are not cheap cars. Give it the respect it deserves and get a proper bench flash tune. You won't be disappointed.

In regards to the S55 (and almost all modern BMW power plants), the DME is very advanced and runs just fine with a piggyback such as the JB4 acting as a boost controller. Saying a piggyback is trash on the S55 is dumb and simply not true, especially for the ZCP.

The stock DME tuning is fully capable of protecting itself and a flash tune can seriously fuck things up if the "tuner" is playing with things he/she doesn't fully understand. I'm not against flash tunes at all, but they're not as needed on the S55 platform, especially the S55 Competition Engine. Lots of people stack the JB4 WITH a flash tune as well. They're both tools and have their place.

[thebatman]

Originally Posted by CaryTheLabelGuy

In regards to the S55 (and almost all modern BMW power plants), the DME is very advanced and runs just fine with a piggyback such as the JB4 acting as a boost controller. Saying a piggyback is trash on the S55 is dumb and simply not true, especially for the ZCP.

The stock DME tuning is fully capable of protecting itself and a flash tune can seriously fuck things up if the "tuner" is playing with things he/she doesn't fully understand. I'm not against flash tunes at all, but they're not as needed on the S55 platform, especially the S55 Competition Engine. Lots of people stack the JB4 WITH a flash tune as well. They're both tools and have their place.

Firstly I never said a PB was trash.
I would still however never get a PB on such an expensive luxury sports car.

The reason why PB such as JB4 exists is because the FSeries DME cannot be cracked (BMW have made sure of this to ensure their cars can't be tuned by aftermarket companies) so running a PB was the only option, until bench flashing became available. Once the DME was removed and flashed, it could be tuned via OBD 2 port at later stage.

No one is gonna go to a tuning shop and let them bench flash their car if the tuner doesn't know what his doing. Also there are plenty of idiots and tuners out there that stuff up a JB4 install and have had things go wrong.

You can't honestly say that your beloved JB4 is better than flash tuning a car right?
Look at all the top tuned cars out there, do they have proper ECU tunes or do they run a cheap PB system?
Yes you're gonna see some gains with a JB4, but it will never be to the same degree, smoothness and consistency as ECU flash tuning hands down.

Some people stack a JB4 with a flash tune purely for boost control and for data logging only. The JB4 doesn't tune the car any further than the flash tune that is already on the car, or else the flash tune would just be pointless.

[JoeyBananas]

Originally Posted by CaryTheLabelGuy

In regards to the S55 (and almost all modern BMW power plants), the DME is very advanced and runs just fine with a piggyback such as the JB4 acting as a boost controller. Saying a piggyback is trash on the S55 is dumb and simply not true, especially for the ZCP.

The stock DME tuning is fully capable of protecting itself and a flash tune can seriously fuck things up if the "tuner" is playing with things he/she doesn't fully understand. I'm not against flash tunes at all, but they're not as needed on the S55 platform, especially the S55 Competition Engine. Lots of people stack the JB4 WITH a flash tune as well. They're both tools and have their place.

Question for ya. I've read that peak numbers with the JB4 is the same with ZCP & non-ZCP. MY Car is on a Ship right now and I'm sort of regretting not getting ZCP but it is what it is. What's different about the ZCP NON-ZCP car with the JB4?

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by JoeyBananas

Question for ya. I've read that peak numbers with the JB4 is the same with ZCP & non-ZCP. MY Car is on a Ship right now and I'm sort of regretting not getting ZCP but it is what it is. What's different about the ZCP NON-ZCP car with the JB4?

Think of JB4 as a boost controller. If you add 4lb of boost to a car thats making 420hp and the same to a car that is making 440hp which will make more in the end? . Its not a huge difference power wise.

The jb4 seems so much smoother in the zcp as well. Cary can go into more detail but in simple terms its got better fueling stock. The tune can handle a lot more ethanol mix than the base tune.

Also of course you get all the zcp/gts features with the zcp tune. Start up roar, burbles, etc.

If you plan on flash tuning and doing suspension/wheels I dont see much point in getting zcp.

[JoeyBananas]

Originally Posted by dmk08

Think of JB4 as a boost controller. If you add 4lb of boost to a car thats making 420hp and the same to a car that is making 440hp which will make more in the end? . Its not a huge difference power wise.

The jb4 seems so much smoother in the zcp as well. Cary can go into more detail but in simple terms its got better fueling stock. The tune can handle a lot more ethanol mix than the base tune.

Also of course you get all the zcp/gts features with the zcp tune. Start up roar, burbles, etc.

If you plan on flash tuning and doing suspension/wheels I dont see much point in getting zcp.

Ok, thanks. If I hadn't ordered suspension, tune, exhaust I would have went ZCP. AT first I hated the wheels but now I kind of like em, lol. Go figure

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by JoeyBananas

Ok, thanks. If I hadn't ordered suspension, tune, exhaust I would have went ZCP. AT first I hated the wheels but now I kind of like em, lol. Go figure

Buy mine I got some aftermarkets on the way.

[JoeyBananas]

Originally Posted by dmk08

Buy mine I got some aftermarkets on the way.

Sadly It would probably cost me the same price as the entire ZCP package, lol.

[CaryTheLabelGuy]

Originally Posted by thebatman

Firstly I never said a PB was trash.
I would still however never get a PB on such an expensive luxury sports car.

The reason why PB such as JB4 exists is because the FSeries DME cannot be cracked (BMW have made sure of this to ensure their cars can't be tuned by aftermarket companies) so running a PB was the only option, until bench flashing became available. Once the DME was removed and flashed, it could be tuned via OBD 2 port at later stage.

No one is gonna go to a tuning shop and let them bench flash their car if the tuner doesn't know what his doing. Also there are plenty of idiots and tuners out there that stuff up a JB4 install and have had things go wrong.

You can't honestly say that your beloved JB4 is better than flash tuning a car right?
Look at all the top tuned cars out there, do they have proper ECU tunes or do they run a cheap PB system?
Yes you're gonna see some gains with a JB4, but it will never be to the same degree, smoothness and consistency as ECU flash tuning hands down.

Some people stack a JB4 with a flash tune purely for boost control and for data logging only. The JB4 doesn't tune the car any further than the flash tune that is already on the car, or else the flash tune would just be pointless.

I probably shouldn't waste my time explaining this stuff (again), but for the sake of other people that might not know all of this, I just can't help myself.

In the "old days" (not too distant past), DME/ECUs didn't run the way the newest ECU/DMEs run (for this instance, we're talking about the Bosch DME used on modern N55 and S55 engine). You must understand, the DME in the S55 runs in 100% Closed-Loop fueling (only operating in Open-Loop in a select few instances like MAF failure and during the initial 10-30secs proceeding a crank sequence), as opposed to the days of old when a DME/ECU typically ran in closed-loop fuel feedback only for idle and part throttle (which means the ECU, during high engine loads like WOT, would switch to open-loop thereby ignoring primary narrowband O2s(some older platforms did utilize a wideband primary O2S) lambda data and instead relied on various sensors (MAF, MAP, RPM, IAT.....etc) and compensation tables to calculate load and "guess" where fueling should be via its fuel tables. During closed-loop feedback of old, the ECU could only target Stoich AFR of 14.7:1 and only during light to medium engine loads. Once the load demand went up to the point that the engine required richer AFRs than Stoich, the ECU would then switch to open-loop.

There are two main types of ECU architectures, each having its own merits depending on the application. Mass Aiflow based, Speed/Density or a combination of the two. The basic premise of most piggybacks back then (on Speed/Density ECUs and MAF based setups with a MAP sensor) was to be a MAP voltage clamp, thereby tricking the ECU and, because of the way the ECUs worked (particularly Speed/Density ECUs), it was risky business and was NEVER the preferred method of "tuning". During my Dyno Tuning years, I was very vocal about how important a proper flash tune was and even helped expose a lot of bullshit piggyback claims back in my Hondata days. I was known for being an extremely hard-nosed piggyback critic, because I understood, very well, what the risks were when using a piggyback back then, particularly in the N/A-to-forced-induction conversion using a Speed/Density ECU like what is found in most Hondas and other N/A engine platforms. Knock sensors and knock protocols weren't nearly as advanced as they are now and this caused major tuning issues and blown-up engines, especially prominent in the early Honda K-Series forced-induction conversion days, when using a MAP voltage clamp piggyback, for instance. Hint: I helped develop the Hondata K-Pro ECU and was an early pioneer in K-Series forced-induction.

Fast forward to today and the Bosch DME found in the BMW F8x. The Bosch DME is light-years ahead of the ECUs of old. It's a MAF based hybrid with a Speed/Density fallback, it is capable of constant closed-loop lambda feedback, has two high-speed, wide-band primary O2 sensors (one for each bank), utilizes two high-resolution hot-film MAF sensors (one per turbo), has multiple high-resolution knock sensors (basically highly-tuned microphones), utilizes a very advanced high-pressure Direct Injection fueling system capable of high-speed operation and individual cylinder adjustment, utilizes a variety of engine sensors to run VANOS and Valvetronic at high-resolution, has two Electronic Wastegates (one for each turbo) and is capable of adjusting boost targets (the S55 has two MAP sensors, one before the throttle plate and one after it) to suit the ambient conditions, elevation, DA...etc. The advancements of these newest DMEs don't just end there, this DME also calculates maximum timing advance based on its knock protocols and, while a little conservative (for obvious reasons), is actually pretty good at getting timing decently close to MBT (Max Best Timing) for the octane you're running and will even output a calculated octane rating based on the amount of timing it feels it can run safely. Because of how the DME works, 100% closed-loop fueling utilizing 2 wide-band primary means it can precisely alter AFRs to suit every engine condition/ambient condition and does so using precise fuel targets. The S55 also has a throttle plate (which is used mostly for boost control before the plenum) in addition to Valvetronic and doesn't have a Diverter Valve, but instead uses excess charge boost for Anti-lag purposes using hot and cold-blowing methods.

All of these things combined with the DME's ability to interpret its sensor polling at a very high resolution means a very well controlled engine. A JB4 or similar piggyback is a high-tech MAP clamp at its most basic (among many other things) and because of the way these newest DMEs work, the DME is fully capable of continuity of operation whilst keeping OEM safety features 100% intact. This is why I say a flash tune isn't "as necessary" on the S55 and why the S55 responds so well to the JB4, even at high boost pressures. Does that mean a flash tune isn't needed? A flash tune, when done correctly, will certainly out-perform a piggyback, but mostly because it can be tailored for an individual engine/build as the tuner takes direct control over all of the tables (which can also be an issue if the tuner doesn't know what they're doing). And to address your comment that people don't get their cars flashed by inexperienced tuners, you couldn't be more wrong. It happens more often than you think and I personally know of several S55's that gave up the ghost from poor tuning. Even with BM3, if a tuner doesn't fully understand how everything works, damage can still easily be done, especially if the tuner has no modern N55/S55 experience as these DMEs operate very differently than older models/platforms; your comment is very naive and shows your experience level on this platform. There are several really shitty generic flash tunes currently in the market as we speak.

The gap is narrowed even more since BMW released the ZCP/GTS as the OEM ZCP/GTS tune is a much better tune overall and makes a much better "base" to stack a JB4 on-top of, especially when using ethanol mixtures as compared to the non-ZCP OEM tune. The ZCP's increased power and driveability doesn't come entirely from an increase in boost pressures, either. There are many parts of the ZCP/GTS tune that are large improvements over the non-ZCP, particularly throttle plate behavior, fuel scalars (important for ethanol mixes) and valve overlap, thus making a flash tune much less of a necessity (a lot of the features and improvements of these flash tunes come from the ZCP/GTS base files). With the ZCP/GTS, you already get the sought-after agressive overrun (burbles), the start-up roar, better behaved throttle plate behavior (actually opens up 100% @ around 5500rpm, unlike the non-ZCP). The non-ZCP guys have to flash tune to get these features and the tune benefits, which makes a flash tune a must if you value those features.

[JoeyBananas]

^ really interesting stuff and much appreciated !

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by CPWINCH

JB$ and catless downpipes' Everything else is a waste

+1

JB4 with downpipes is an amazing combo. Thats what we run on our M3.

Mike

[mike@x-ph.com]

CaryTheLabelGuy Good read

[PayamFSU]

NOS