2018 BMW M3 CS priced at $97,400

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Ben Overlake

we're talking about hard earned $s. who the hell cares if it's new or not? a used 991.1 GTS is a much smarter buy than a new CS.

How about we don't? A used M3 makes more sense than a new M3 too. And a used GT3 makes more sense than a new GT3.

TL;DR: A used X makes more sense than a new X. Or even a new Y sometimes. Maybe even a Z. So no one should ever buy anything new.

Back on topic?

[mrmoua2u]

bye bye M3 CS...Porsche, here I come.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Its about value. If Porsche released a $69k 911 "even-more-amish" edition that had roughly 95%+ of the performance of current base Carrera, the the enthusiast community would lineup outside their nearest Porsche dealership to buy one. But that model doesn't exist, so instead you have the base Carrera serving as the entry level model with a $100k price tag. And you're right - it doesn't evoke much excitement does it?

Yet, here BMW is presenting the M3 CS and asking people to get excited about it's $100k price tag. Ok, well, if you are excited about this car at that price, then you should be through-the-roof ecstatic that you can get a standard M3 with - you guessed it - about 95% of the performance for 2/3 the price. Even better - you can order one today. And furthermore, instead of facing dealer markup, you can negotiate a discount.

Will it? In my experience, the likelihood for badge whoring goes up as the performance/$ ratio goes down. Just my opinion and my take.

I completely agree that the bang for the buck is higher in the regular M3/4 versions, but it's a curve of diminishing returns and it's standard across all cars.

If someone says they see more value in the base M3/4 than the CS I can't help but agree. However, there is also something nice about buying a factory car that is more adept at the track vs buying a base one and modding it. Namely the amount of work involved and the terrible resale of track-specific goodies.

The badge whores are probably the guys who, one after another, come to the BMW M forum and post variations of 'for that price I'd buy a Porsche', ignoring that you cannot buy any 911 for this price in the first place and that the closest in price to the CS is a stripper base 911 that doesn't even have a LSD. And which no one has purchased since the dawn of mankind.

Clearly, no one would make that assessment if they were interested in actual performance.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Yup, you've got to step up to the S for the LSD. It is really incredible.

You can barely buy a base, amish edition 911 for the price of the CS.

I drove a nicely optioned 911 S last year that stickered in the low 120s. It had PDK and some other nice options. Without even negotiating I could tell they would be willing to let it go for quite a bit under 120. I would get that 10 out of 10 times over an M4 CS and even a GTS as it is a better value and performs for the money.

Like I said the M3CS is a bit unique due to the 4 doors, but man BMW is going to make you pay for that bit of uniqueness.

Edit: And I am very far from a Porsche fanboy.

[iMinLuv]

Camaro ZL1 1LE smoked that for 20k less. BMW is wild with their pricing

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by minn19

I drove a nicely optioned 911 S last year that stickered in the low 120s. It had PDK and some other nice options. Without even negotiating I could tell they would be willing to let it go for quite a bit under 120. I would get that 10 out of 10 times over an M4 CS and even a GTS as it is a better value and performs for the money.

Like I said the M3CS is a bit unique due to the 4 doors, but man BMW is going to make you pay for that bit of uniqueness.

Edit: And I am very far from a Porsche fanboy.

Your feelings of what they'd let the car go for are irrelevant. It is likely after a few months pass you will also get those feelings ordering a CS, just like what happened with the GTS.

I don't understand how someone could get a 911S over a GTS, but I guess as I actually track often I see how slow Porsches are so I have zero desire to get one.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by iMinLuv

Camaro ZL1 1LE smoked that for 20k less. BMW is wild with their pricing

Camara ZL1 1LE smoked the 991 GT3 RS at the Lightning Lap for what, 1/4 of the price?

So if BMW is out of their minds with their pricing, what is Porsche? If all you're interested is the lap time, the Viper has been winning that metric for a few years already

[minn19]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Your feelings of what they'd let the car go for are irrelevant. It is likely after a few months pass you will also get those feelings ordering a CS, just like what happened with the GTS.

I don't understand how someone could get a 911S over a GTS, but I guess as I actually track often I see how slow Porsches are so I have zero desire to get one.

Ok fine base M4CS to MSRP 911S I'd get the Porsche 10 out of 10 times still because at these prices 20k isn't that much more for a much better performing car.

I agree, that is why I'm going to order a manual GTS to compliment my GT350 in the somewhat near future.

Also, as a you are "person that tracks a lot" you know that the CSs aren't that great when it comes down to it either for the track value wise.

[Taran.J]

$100k + for a M3. This day came sooner than I expected. A lot more bang for your $$$ at those prices. Sure BMW will sell out regardless.

[nujabes24]

Originally Posted by LemonOne

BMW is going after people with deep pockets, not true enthusiasts. No bueno

You read my mind i don’t care what anyone else says. They are just leaving us behind.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by minn19

Ok fine base M4CS to MSRP 911S I'd get the Porsche 10 out of 10 times still because at these prices 20k isn't that much more for a much better performing car.

I agree, that is why I'm going to order a manual GTS to compliment my GT350 in the somewhat near future.

Also, as a you are "person that tracks a lot" you know that the CSs aren't that great when it comes down to it either for the track value wise.

The 991S is a 'much better performer'? How?

The last comparison that was posted over here vs the 991 GTS was won by the GTS, but it wasn't like it was crushed. Not sure how you come to the conclusion that a 20% more money for a 2 seater is much better value, but to each their own

[minn19]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Camara ZL1 1LE smoked the 991 GT3 RS at the Lightning Lap for what, 1/4 of the price?

So if BMW is out of their minds with their pricing, what is Porsche? If all you're interested is the lap time, the Viper has been winning that metric for a few years already

I agree with this.

I'm looking at a Porsche GTS for my really nice DD slash I can go track it if I want. It definitely isn't value based.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

The 991S is a 'much better performer'? How?

The last comparison that was posted over here vs the 991 GTS was won by the GTS, but it wasn't like it was crushed. Not sure how you come to the conclusion that a 20% more money for a 2 seater is much better value, but to each their own

Based on what I've experienced, read, seen and talked to people that I trust, that is how.

How many people actually put people in the back of their M4s? I have a young daughter so she will fit back there for a quite few years just like she does in my GT350.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by minn19

I agree with this.

I'm looking at a Porsche GTS for my really nice DD slash I can go track it if I want. It definitely isn't value based.

GTS I specced out was close to 160k.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by minn19

I agree with this.

I'm looking at a Porsche GTS for my really nice DD slash I can go track it if I want. It definitely isn't value based.

something is something

[minn19]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

GTS I specced out was close to 160k.

I specced a nice manual for around $140,000. Not cheap, but fits what I'd want out of a sports/luxury/occasional track car if I'm going to go down that road again.

[Mr.SugarSkulls]

LOL oh Bmw

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Thanks for posting that. I guess I didn't realize M3 CS prices were already announced for other markets.

I wasn't aware either until someone pointed me to these two EVO articles few days ago.

http://www.evo.co.uk/bmw/m3/20316/ne...m3-cs-revealed

BMW has now confirmed the specification and details of its new 454bhp M3 CS, which will go on sale in January 2018 and will set you back £86,380.

http://www.evo.co.uk/bmw/m4

The M4 CS now replaces the more extreme GTS as the range topping special, costing from £89,130.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

If someone says they see more value in the base M3/4 than the CS I can't help but agree. However, there is also something nice about buying a factory car that is more adept at the track vs buying a base one and modding it. Namely the amount of work involved and the terrible resale of track-specific goodies.

But will the CS models be more adept on the track than any other M3 or M4? Why? Because they have a splitter, a diffuser, and a slightly bigger lip spoiler? Okay, maybe those things are marginal improvements, but for the driver with typical enthusiast-level skills (the vast majority of us), we are most probably talking about almost insignificant lap time improvement that could be attributed specifically to those modifications, if anything truly measurable at all.

Meanwhile the guy who buys a base M3/M4 and spends $15k on suspension and brakes will see real improvement for less money. Sure, those are aftermarket modifications instead of from the factory. But the CS models are far from factory track specials, so in reality you'd want to make those same changes to those cars too, if you are serious about making the cars more track worthy.

If the M3/M4 CS were about chassis improvements that people who track their cars would want to do, then yeah, that'd be great. But they aren't. Think about it like this:

Let's say BMW introduces two more models along side the M3/M4 CS called the M3 GT and M4 GT. Instead of any of the content that the CS offers - or really, any of the content that ZCP offers for that matter - they just offer better brakes, the M Performance HAS, and maybe throw in the engine tune. And then let's say that you can have any of those for the same price. Not unrealistic for the GT models I don't think, given the content offered. Now who out there that wants to track their car is genuinely picking the CS over the GT? It would be nearly no one. In fact it might actually be zero people. I wouldn't bet against that if I were the one who had to try to make that sale to a group of track-going enthusiasts.

[Who's on first]

Originally Posted by DrunkTyrion

You're right I speced my 18 M4 to be at around 113 after taxes and warranty

Extended warranty doesn't count when adding up options.

[Funf6cyl]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

The 991S is a 'much better performer'? How?

The last comparison that was posted over here vs the 991 GTS was won by the GTS, but it wasn't like it was crushed. Not sure how you come to the conclusion that a 20% more money for a 2 seater is much better value, but to each their own

The 911 GTS far outperforms the M4 GTS let alone a CS. The track times, handling and straight line as well as the subjective all show it’s quite a lob sided victory in favor of the 911. Even a 991S outperforms an M4 GTS even though it’s not on Cup2s. A base 911 on Cup tires would be as fast as the M4 GTS and easily faster than the CS which isn’t any faster than a Competiton pack car.

You talk about track, but Porsche’s in my experience and reality are much faster and more cut out for that. Sounds like your anecdote is related to your skills as a driver at an HPDE rather than guys at equal skill level competing for something but to each their own.

Mclarens don’t come with LSDs either in the 570 and that’s a 200k car. The commonality is that neither the 991 Base or 570 need one due to mechanical grip they have given they can pull well over 1.0g without one.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Indeed. A vastly better deal than an M3CS would be a Porsche 911T with a Manual Transmission and only 1 or 2 options, which will come out to slightly above $100k. The beauty of the 911T is that the engine is now turbo too, so although it only comes with 370hp, it can easily be tuned/modified for power levels on par with a GT3 or an M3CS for that matter. But if you really need the utility the M3 is the better choice.

This does make the 911T seem more like a deal. Although my friend inquired about one, the dealer wanted $10k adm.