M4 vs Cayman S

[Brosef]

drove a GTS last weekend. great 2nd car for those who have the space and wallet, but not a replacement for the M3 for those who need the space sometimes. anybody who compares it to the M3 is a fool however. they're completely different cars with different purposes in mind. in my mind, there's no question the M is a way better value with far more everyday practicality (and tons more grunt). but the Cayman feels and looks far more special, and if you were just going out for a Saturday morning drive for the fun of it, you'd take the Cayman every time. the other 90% of the time, I'd take the M.

[visualguy]

Originally Posted by W///

The only thing for me is that I'd regret getting a Cayman S when the GT4 is "only" $15k more (assuming you can get your hands on one). That would drive me crazy.

Only if you track the car. As a daily driver, the S and GTS are better. The ground clearance on the GT4 is horrible, the car doesn't have some of the options (such as the better sound systems), etc.

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by visualguy

Only if you track the car. As a daily driver, the S and GTS are better. The ground clearance on the GT4 is horrible, the car doesn't have some of the options (such as the better sound systems), etc.

Exactly, S and GTS are good daily drivers while GT4 is a track car that can be driven in the street occasionnaly! So on top of the 15k more that the GT4 cost, one would also need a second car! I for one would'nt hesitate to daily drive a 5k GTI beater ~50% of the time if I could get my hand on a GT4!!

[W///]

Originally Posted by visualguy

Only if you track the car. As a daily driver, the S and GTS are better. The ground clearance on the GT4 is horrible, the car doesn't have some of the options (such as the better sound systems), etc.

Originally Posted by Alex07M3

Exactly, S and GTS are good daily drivers while GT4 is a track car that can be driven in the street occasionnaly! So on top of the 15k more that the GT4 cost, one would also need a second car! I for one would'nt hesitate to daily drive a 5k GTI beater ~50% of the time if I could get my hand on a GT4!!

I have no doubt that you COULD dd a Cayman S or GTS, but how many people actually do? That is a pretty small car to be your only car. I know I wouldn't be able to use that car as my only one.

So at that point, yes, I'd rather drop 15k more on a GT4 and have a cheap hatchback or something.

Not to mention that GT4 is going to hold its value like crazy. I'd love to add one to my garage one day. They're all epic cars really.

[visualguy]

Originally Posted by W///

I have no doubt that you COULD dd a Cayman S or GTS, but how many people actually do? That is a pretty small car to be your only car. I know I wouldn't be able to use that car as my only one.

True, the S and GTS aren't good only-cars either, but it's a matter of degree, not black-and-white. I would need to drive my "beater" more often with the GT4 than the S/GTS. Also, the experience of driving on public roads is likely to be better with the S/GTS than the GT4.

[Revcrazy]

Originally Posted by Alex07M3

Maybe this will help OP, it's a GTS but I eard there was'nt that much difference with the S, anyhow, it's pretty clear which is the better car!

Cayman GTS = A step above brilliant. Pretty much sums it up quite properly.

GT4 will be other worldly...maybe the best car in the world short of the 918, P1, etc type cars. And for the price, forget about it.

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by W///

I have no doubt that you COULD dd a Cayman S or GTS, but how many people actually do? That is a pretty small car to be your only car. I know I wouldn't be able to use that car as my only one.

So at that point, yes, I'd rather drop 15k more on a GT4 and have a cheap hatchback or something.

Not to mention that GT4 is going to hold its value like crazy. I'd love to add one to my garage one day. They're all epic cars really.

lol This reminds me I was about to get a used Cayman S as a daily/winter/track beater last year before finally getting a good deal on my Evo, not sure how I would've liked it, specially with the baby seat on the passenger side! It seemed like a good idea at the time! lol

I was hesitating between Cayman S and Z4M but the guy who was selling that nice Z4 sold it right before I was ready and after doing research on the Caymans, realised that these models(07-09 I think) were suffering oil starvation when being tracked, so this was no good for me since tracking was one of the main reason I wanted a new car! Now I'm thinking of trading my Evo for a TT RS, there's is some decent deals on the used market right now, it could be interesting to own one for a while, I love my Evo but I'm really a german car guy!

[jeremicium]

It's telling that their SUV is what most impressed you. Coming from a big M6 you're used to gobs of power and massive weight. To each their own, but to call the Cayman pathetic in every way, along with all your other comments on Porsches just sounds like you are hating on Porsche, and don't appreciate the nuances of a well balanced sports car.

I went into this expecting to love the M3/M4 but came out loving the car with significantly less power, but the car that clearly had more soul.

Originally Posted by ASAP

I will day that I have only had 3 Porsche experiences...

1) Cayman w 6 mt
2) 911 turbo 2012
3) Cayenne

1) This was pathetic in every way... the handling was good but everything else about it completely sucked. Brakes were lol, the engine sounded awful and it was super slow.
2) Very Fast... thats all I can say... not sure I would buy this over say an M4 even if I had double the money. Little emotion, just fast.
3) I liked this the most, I think Porsche makes a really solid SUV

As a whole I was never really impressed though...

Originally Posted by ASAP

I think it's annoying and that's that... in fact, under certain instances it makes my ears hurt.

Not everyone is a Porsche fanboy... as it seems 95% of BMW owners are for whatever reason... I don't nor have ever seen anything special.

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by jeremicium

It's telling that their SUV is what most impressed you. Coming from a big M6 you're used to gobs of power and massive weight. To each their own, but to call the Cayman pathetic in every way, along with all your other comments on Porsches just sounds like you are hating on Porsche, and don't appreciate the nuances of a well balanced sports car.

I went into this expecting to love the M3/M4 but came out loving the car with significantly less power, but the car that clearly had more soul.

Don't worry, this guy hates on pretty much everything that is not F/I BMW, the reason is simple, inferiority complex, why, because he drives a 135!

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by jeremicium

It's telling that their SUV is what most impressed you. Coming from a big M6 you're used to gobs of power and massive weight. To each their own, but to call the Cayman pathetic in every way, along with all your other comments on Porsches just sounds like you are hating on Porsche, and don't appreciate the nuances of a well balanced sports car.

I went into this expecting to love the M3/M4 but came out loving the car with significantly less power, but the car that clearly had more soul.

A couple of minor issues here. I am not coming from an M6 and I have no idea where you got that. I drove an M6 a day before the Cayman, sure. But I am coming from a 135i (yeah, the lightest modern car BMW has made btw) that is slightly modified both on the engine and suspension side. As I mentioned, the Porsche SUVs impressed me, both the Cayenne and especially the Macan. They are incredibly well balanced suv's and the fact that they come with DCTs truly seperates them from the mix. As far as the sound, well that is subjective so we can't speak on that. The Cayman that I drove which may have been the first generation was to me, pure junk. It didn't sound good, wasn't fast and had awful brakes. In addition, I couldn't appreciate the styling. The Turbos are incredibly fast but to me offer almost 0 emotion with the AWD setup and with a price of nearly 200K, I don't think I could ever throw that type of money towards one, it's not in my mind even 1.5x as good as an M4. The GT3 and GT3rs are incredible cars in their own right for people that will actually consistently use their corner carving capabilities. If you are into tracking, then I think they are a bad choice simply due to prohibitive costs and you are better off in a proper spec car at that point. Otherwise, IMHO, they are a seriously bad value as an entire package so they offer 0 appeal to me.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Alex07M3

Don't worry, this guy hates on pretty much everything that is not F/I BMW, the reason is simple, inferiority complex, why, because he drives a 135!

Lol this guy talking about inferiority complexes

[jeremicium]

I have to agree that the previous gen Cayman is not much to look at. I love the style of the current gen. I guess that's subjective. Funny, before I got my 335 I was looking at 135s. They drove a little better than the 335 (a little more nimble, and a little more fun to drive), but i didn't care for how they looked, especially the cheap-ish feeling interior. 135 is a very good car, and the looks have grown on me, minus the interior.

For the most part comparing these two cars makes little sense. A two seat sports car and a four seat sports car/grand tourer are not generally cross shopped. What the hell was I thinking driving them back to back?

I will say this ASAP, if you ever had the chance to drive these cars on a track, whether it be a driver skills day, or an HPDE you would see the merits of the Cayman.

[Revcrazy]

Originally Posted by ASAP

A couple of minor issues here. I am not coming from an M6 and I have no idea where you got that. I drove an M6 a day before the Cayman, sure. But I am coming from a 135i (yeah, the lightest modern car BMW has made btw) that is slightly modified both on the engine and suspension side. As I mentioned, the Porsche SUVs impressed me, both the Cayenne and especially the Macan. They are incredibly well balanced suv's and the fact that they come with DCTs truly seperates them from the mix. As far as the sound, well that is subjective so we can't speak on that. The Cayman that I drove which may have been the first generation was to me, pure junk. It didn't sound good, wasn't fast and had awful brakes. In addition, I couldn't appreciate the styling. The Turbos are incredibly fast but to me offer almost 0 emotion with the AWD setup and with a price of nearly 200K, I don't think I could ever throw that type of money towards one, it's not in my mind even 1.5x as good as an M4. The GT3 and GT3rs are incredible cars in their own right for people that will actually consistently use their corner carving capabilities. If you are into tracking, then I think they are a bad choice simply due to prohibitive costs and you are better off in a proper spec car at that point. Otherwise, IMHO, they are a seriously bad value as an entire package so they offer 0 appeal to me.

Macan has PDK, Cayenne has an 8 speed auto, not PDK.

And they are immensely impressive. Bar none, hands down, unanimously the best SUVs in the world, inside and out, from a performance perspective and in the subjective feel areas as well.

I don't agree on the cayman as that is an impressive car in any form but the 981 is a gem.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by jeremicium

I have to agree that the previous gen Cayman is not much to look at. I love the style of the current gen. I guess that's subjective. Funny, before I got my 335 I was looking at 135s. They drove a little better than the 335 (a little more nimble, and a little more fun to drive), but i didn't care for how they looked, especially the cheap-ish feeling interior. 135 is a very good car, and the looks have grown on me, minus the interior.

For the most part comparing these two cars makes little sense. A two seat sports car and a four seat sports car/grand tourer are not generally cross shopped. What the hell was I thinking driving them back to back?

I will say this ASAP, if you ever had the chance to drive these cars on a track, whether it be a driver skills day, or an HPDE you would see the merits of the Cayman.

I can't argue that comment... but if you don't track or may do it once or twice in your car, then the cons of those type of cars really come out. The M3/M4 duo fit that bill very very well.

[guarnibl]

I love my 911 Turbo S -- but I agree with ASAP that I wouldn't touch the car at $200k. It isn't worth it. It's an awesome driving experience though. I do disagree with ASAP that it lacks emotion. The GT-R lacked emotion, the Porsche does not though I primarily feel the reason behind that is the GT-R was just way too big, and the Porsche is small and nimble (even if the engine is in the wrong place). Agree with ASAP's comments on AWD, but you can't really compare AWD handling vs RWD handling. Perhaps a GT3 or 991 S w/ sport chrono is a better comparison here.

FWIW, the car isn't better than an M4 -- it's just different...I would very much still be happy with an M4 vs the Turbo S, --BUT--, only if I had a really, really great paint color (frozen Japan Red comes to mind), and carbon bits. For me a car is about aesthetic, sound, and performance (I don't really track my cars except the occasional drag strip or roll event). Also, the M4 would be way more comfortable and practical for a DD. I would never DD a 911, or Cayman or Boxster. The Turbo stands out from the crowd with Aqua Blue and the factory Aero Kit. The m4 kind of blends in, thus my immediate gravitation towards the crazy colors and carbon. But I would certainly own both cars at the same time, the M4 as the DD, and the TTS as the weekend car. Most likely I'll just end up keeping the TTS for another year or two, pick up an M4 off lease, and go down to 1 car (or try to find an '09 Turbo unicorn to go with it, since it'll hold its value for a long, long time). The big negative about the TTS is the depreciation will likely continue given it isn't 6 speed, nor is it metzger motor. So far it doesn't appear that it's gone down more than 5-6k since I bought it ~6 months ago though, and I think it'll stay at that same value until the '16s roll out and next winter comes around.