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      09-25-2013, 03:34 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
It's not as bad as on M5. Just confirming some details before publishing.
Much appreciated, Jason. You are a massive part of why this forum's so good. Inconsequential additional question: will the tach needles be traditional red as the all white looks jarring on the test car?
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      09-25-2013, 03:39 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl L View Post
Much appreciated, Jason. You are a massive part of why this forum's so good. Inconsequential additional question: will the tach needles be traditional red as the all white looks jarring on the test car?
Thanks, always happy to provide as much accurate information as possible to our members.

I don't know what color the needles will be, but will try to find out. I agree that red looks better though.
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      09-25-2013, 03:53 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
Just confirmed that there is some sound enhancement, but not in the same way as on the M5/M6. Will post more on this later.
No...
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      09-25-2013, 03:57 PM   #70
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Hopefully the sound enhancement is mechanical.... don't see why they couldn't program those exhaust flaps to "add loudness" that would be perfectly acceptable to me... even a sound tube for added intake resonance... anything but fake sound through the speakers...
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      09-25-2013, 04:01 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezio View Post
anyone else feel the interior its not really better or worse than the e9x m3 ?

its really a upgrade its just different. matter of fact i do not like the navvy screen location in the m4 at all.
lol man this guy been posting so many negative comments on f80. just stop it alreadt lol, i almost start to feel sorry for you.
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      09-25-2013, 04:06 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by ixse View Post
lol man this guy been posting so many negative comments on f80. just stop it alreadt lol, i almost start to feel sorry for you.
are you ready for my comments ?

-the F80 IS a better performance car
- looks better
- overall going to be better to drive for daily drving
-better MPG
-probably going to be a fun car to mod

what i do not like about it?
-engine noise is average
- some interior components
- not as high revving.

I like the m4 i think its going to be a great car, i will also go test drive one.

but there are things i like better on the E92. i would say what i said above is fair.
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      09-25-2013, 05:32 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xlover View Post
Hopefully the sound enhancement is mechanical.... don't see why they couldn't program those exhaust flaps to "add loudness" that would be perfectly acceptable to me... even a sound tube for added intake resonance... anything but fake sound through the speakers...
Mechanical is fine with me.. but it certainly is not. There would have to be some pretty incredible plumbing to result in that sort of noise when not on load (e.g., throttle blips). Doing so would compromise efficiency in every way that I can possibly think of applying it. What you're talking about, on the exhaust fine, will only give you noise under load. So, downshifting would still be nearly silent. Honestly, try downshifting in a 335is. What do you hear? .. maybe some tire noise? Wind? You'll hear the exhaust once you get back on it.

So, there is SIGNIFICANT audio enhancement here. This is the reality of a turbo system. The induction note is absent.
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      09-25-2013, 05:53 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imola.ZHP View Post
I don't understand why BMW wouldn't put this "amazing" electronic steering setup on all of their cars. Why numb and dumb it down in the non-M cars when all of the reviewers keep complaining about it?

Hopefully it has just been recently developed (reason why its not on the m5/m6) and will find its way into all of the cars with electronic steering.

have you driven any cars with electronic steering?

perhaps you are not aware that this technology has been evolvingand that there have been software updates for current models.
the technolgy hasnt been dumbed down for lower models.. but has been refined to the point where it is now acceptable to BMW M.

I have driven the X3, a loaner F30, and recently got a loaner 2013 X1 from my dealer. in each car, the system has shown improvement. The X3 was very light and artificial. The F30 is better... but can feel light at certain speeds. However.. this past weekend I got the X1 loaner and I am VERY impressed with the steering the X1. So much so that I drove the loaner across town to show it to a friend who owns an X3. He and I drove around for 30 minutes on his favorite test loop near his home and he was also impressed with the X1 and said it is FAR better than his X3. The X1 actually almost feels a touch too heavy at times.


one thing is for sure. BMW M engineers aren't going to bring technology to market if it's not up to their own exacting standards. Case in point was the 1M... After all the limp mode issues in the 1 series and 3 series... BMW went back and redesigned the cooling in the 1 series and completely banished any idea of limp mode in the 1M. I have driven my 1M in high altitude, low altitude, low humidity, high humidity, high heat, autocross, track with 104 degree ambient in TX and never a thought of limp mode.

indeed, Electronic Power Steering is evolving.. and it appears to be ready for prime time.. As you mentioned... indeed it apparently was not ready for the 5/6... but will be available with likely all future models as part of BMWs efficient dynamics. ( Electric power steering allows for the use of stop/start technology for the engine..)
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      09-25-2013, 06:43 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl L View Post
Oh dear.....
It's not as bad as on M5. Just confirming some details before publishing.
Hanging on a thread here. Let's pray any artificial sound or enhancement can at least be shut off. What happens when you put on an aftermarket exhaust??
You r the best Jason thanks for what you do.
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      09-25-2013, 07:09 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IB M View Post
Hanging on a thread here. Let's pray any artificial sound or enhancement can at least be shut off. What happens when you put on an aftermarket exhaust??
You r the best Jason thanks for what you do.
Don't forget the engine will sound better with the upgraded stereo versus the base.
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      09-25-2013, 07:27 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post

I have driven the X3, a loaner F30, and recently got a loaner 2013 X1 from my dealer. in each car, the system has shown improvement. The X3 was very light and artificial. The F30 is better... but can feel light at certain speeds. However.. this past weekend I got the X1 loaner and I am VERY impressed with the steering the X1. So much so that I drove the loaner across town to show it to a friend who owns an X3. He and I drove around for 30 minutes on his favorite test loop near his home and he was also impressed with the X1 and said it is FAR better than his X3. The X1 actually almost feels a touch too heavy at times.
)
Yeah, that would be because the X1 has hydraulic steering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
have you driven any cars with electronic steering?

perhaps you are not aware that this technology has been evolvingand that there have been software updates for current models.
the technolgy hasnt been dumbed down for lower models.. but has been refined to the point where it is now acceptable to BMW M.



indeed, Electronic Power Steering is evolving.. and it appears to be ready for prime time.. As you mentioned... indeed it apparently was not ready for the 5/6... but will be available with likely all future models as part of BMWs efficient dynamics. ( Electric power steering allows for the use of stop/start technology for the engine..)

Dead wrong. Read the press release and review. BMW M decided that the standard EPS module wasn't up to snuff and started completely fresh.

Not to mention the fact that despite the clear upgrades from the early EPS modules, like my 2011 535, even the current modules aren't completely up to snuff. It's still numb, although not nearly as numb, light and remote as, say, an Audi A6.

Even the standard 911's EPS leaves something to be desired. The GT3 shades it severely.

EPS can be made good, but it's not necessarily as rosy a picture that you paint.
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      09-25-2013, 07:32 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
The GT3 shades it severely.
.
Quick pedantic moment: you can't shade something severely.
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      09-25-2013, 07:37 PM   #79
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LEATHER ON THE DASH. Thank god.
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      09-25-2013, 08:01 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gblansten View Post
Don't forget the engine will sound better with the upgraded stereo versus the base.
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      09-25-2013, 08:23 PM   #81
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LEATHER ON THE DASH. Thank god.
That sounds like a trendy Oprah Book of the Month title that will appeal to women of all ages. No offense.

Just struck me as funny in a different context.
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      09-25-2013, 10:23 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imola.ZHP View Post
I don't understand why BMW wouldn't put this "amazing" electronic steering setup on all of their cars. Why numb and dumb it down in the non-M cars when all of the reviewers keep complaining about it?

Hopefully it has just been recently developed (reason why its not on the m5/m6) and will find its way into all of the cars with electronic steering.

have you driven any cars with electronic steering?

perhaps you are not aware that this technology has been evolvingand that there have been software updates for current models.
the technolgy hasnt been dumbed down for lower models.. but has been refined to the point where it is now acceptable to BMW M.

I have driven the X3, a loaner F30, and recently got a loaner 2013 X1 from my dealer. in each car, the system has shown improvement. The X3 was very light and artificial. The F30 is better... but can feel light at certain speeds. However.. this past weekend I got the X1 loaner and I am VERY impressed with the steering the X1. So much so that I drove the loaner across town to show it to a friend who owns an X3. He and I drove around for 30 minutes on his favorite test loop near his home and he was also impressed with the X1 and said it is FAR better than his X3. The X1 actually almost feels a touch too heavy at times.


one thing is for sure. BMW M engineers aren't going to bring technology to market if it's not up to their own exacting standards. Case in point was the 1M... After all the limp mode issues in the 1 series and 3 series... BMW went back and redesigned the cooling in the 1 series and completely banished any idea of limp mode in the 1M. I have driven my 1M in high altitude, low altitude, low humidity, high humidity, high heat, autocross, track with 104 degree ambient in TX and never a thought of limp mode.

indeed, Electronic Power Steering is evolving.. and it appears to be ready for prime time.. As you mentioned... indeed it apparently was not ready for the 5/6... but will be available with likely all future models as part of BMWs efficient dynamics. ( Electric power steering allows for the use of stop/start technology for the engine..)
Did the X3 that you drove have DHP? Because steering feel is leaps and bounds better in Sport/Sport+. And obviously the M3/M4 would be leaps and bounds better than that...I love the BMW hydraulic systems of the past but electronic systems are improving and it's possible that they got it right in the new M cars.
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      09-25-2013, 10:28 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nonagon
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imola.ZHP View Post
I don't understand why BMW wouldn't put this "amazing" electronic steering setup on all of their cars. Why numb and dumb it down in the non-M cars when all of the reviewers keep complaining about it?

Hopefully it has just been recently developed (reason why its not on the m5/m6) and will find its way into all of the cars with electronic steering.

have you driven any cars with electronic steering?

perhaps you are not aware that this technology has been evolvingand that there have been software updates for current models.
the technolgy hasnt been dumbed down for lower models.. but has been refined to the point where it is now acceptable to BMW M.

I have driven the X3, a loaner F30, and recently got a loaner 2013 X1 from my dealer. in each car, the system has shown improvement. The X3 was very light and artificial. The F30 is better... but can feel light at certain speeds. However.. this past weekend I got the X1 loaner and I am VERY impressed with the steering the X1. So much so that I drove the loaner across town to show it to a friend who owns an X3. He and I drove around for 30 minutes on his favorite test loop near his home and he was also impressed with the X1 and said it is FAR better than his X3. The X1 actually almost feels a touch too heavy at times.


one thing is for sure. BMW M engineers aren't going to bring technology to market if it's not up to their own exacting standards. Case in point was the 1M... After all the limp mode issues in the 1 series and 3 series... BMW went back and redesigned the cooling in the 1 series and completely banished any idea of limp mode in the 1M. I have driven my 1M in high altitude, low altitude, low humidity, high humidity, high heat, autocross, track with 104 degree ambient in TX and never a thought of limp mode.

indeed, Electronic Power Steering is evolving.. and it appears to be ready for prime time.. As you mentioned... indeed it apparently was not ready for the 5/6... but will be available with likely all future models as part of BMWs efficient dynamics. ( Electric power steering allows for the use of stop/start technology for the engine..)
Did the X3 that you drove have DHP? Because steering feel is leaps and bounds better in Sport/Sport+. And obviously the M3/M4 would be leaps and bounds better than that...I love the BMW hydraulic systems of the past but electronic systems are improving and it's possible that they got it right in the new M cars.
Don't equate heft with feel. Not the same.

Many excellent helms are very light but buzzing with feedback. BMW has been trending in the opposite direction.
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      09-25-2013, 10:40 PM   #84
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Exhaust Question

I an E93 M3 with the OEM Exhaust Mod (non-perf), which honestly sounds fantastic. I honestly hated how quiet the stock car was, especially compared to my old E46.

Here's my question: I was hoping there might be a "2 mode" exhaust that would sound louder in "Sport" mode. I'm was thinking this might be the case after hearing one of the test car videos of an M4 somewhat recently (on PCH in LA). Given that I'm not much into mechanics, can someone explain whether the "open vs closed" flaps that are mentioned in the press release refer to 2 modes (ie. Sport and Non-Sport) or simply refer to open/closed states that are automatically controlled by the car depending on how much your foot is on the gas. I'm afraid it might be the latter but I couldn't understand what they meant about the open and closed modes.

I am VERY excited about the M4, specifically convertible, especially given the weight reduction, as my E93 is a porker, especially compared to my old E46 soft top. Looking forward to trying it. I have fallen in love with my E93 M3 thanks to the OEM Exhaust Mod and appreciation of the NA V8 but I'm looking forward to trying the I-6 with that extra torque.

And a big thanks to Jason and everyone for their information/perspective!

Jeremy
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      09-25-2013, 10:42 PM   #85
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another video

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      09-25-2013, 10:47 PM   #86
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and another

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      09-25-2013, 11:26 PM   #87
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I am so happy that they are equipping this car with eps and no throttle lag? I am now very optimistic with the new m3 m4.
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      09-26-2013, 12:09 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
Yeah, that would be because the X1 has hydraulic steering.




Dead wrong. Read the press release and review. BMW M decided that the standard EPS module wasn't up to snuff and started completely fresh.

Not to mention the fact that despite the clear upgrades from the early EPS modules, like my 2011 535, even the current modules aren't completely up to snuff. It's still numb, although not nearly as numb, light and remote as, say, an Audi A6.

Even the standard 911's EPS leaves something to be desired. The GT3 shades it severely.

EPS can be made good, but it's not necessarily as rosy a picture that you paint.

The xdrive s28 has electric steering. And having driven it, rather than written about it on a webpage....... sorry... not painting a rosy picture. I drove the damn thing across town to two different car guy friends to have them try it... because obviously, had i just told them it was actually quiet satisfying to drive.. they would have tried to shoot me down like you!


The fact that BMW M scrapped one system and redesigned another, is EXACTLY my point, that the technology is evolving.
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