Interesting reminder on steering....

[myzmak]

Had forgotten this review, but here is a pretty good comparison of EPS vs hydraulic on 5 series cars. 2 years old, so one assumes the tech is even better now.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...n-test-feature

As you'll see, even then to their surprise, the testers preferred the EPS........

[bimmerjph]

Originally Posted by myzmak

Had forgotten this review, but here is a pretty good comparison of EPS vs hydraulic on 5 series cars. 2 years old, so one assumes the tech is even better now.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...n-test-feature

As you'll see, even then to their surprise, the testers preferred the EPS........

For some reason, C&D seems to have taken down the data graphs that go with this article. Luckily, I saved it.



You can clearly see in this graph how devoid of feel the EPS system is though. Whereas the HPS system clearly communicates the loss of traction via the decrease in steering weight (and the approaching of the traction limit via the decrease in the rate of increase of the steering weight (i.e. the slope decreases)).

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by bimmerjph

For some reason, C&D seems to have taken down the data graphs that go with this article. Luckily, I saved it.



You can clearly see in this graph how devoid of feel the EPS system is though. Whereas the HPS system clearly communicates the loss of traction via the decrease in steering weight (and the approaching of the traction limit via the decrease in the rate of increase of the steering weight (i.e. the slope decreases)).

No, it wasn't taken down, you just had to click on the link to it

Here is the full chart (including the subjective results missing in your saved file):
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...ring-specs.pdf

You'll see 'feedback' is mostly a tie and, as the article states, on most categories EPS is superior (including precision and quickness. It ties on 2/3 feedback categories, with exception of on centre effort...something the E90 was criticized for as I recall...)

[solstice]

Really, why do you even bother? This is such old news and I'm pretty sure everyone has driven an EPS BMW by now and many like me have owned one. If not just go down to your dealer and try it. There are good HPS systems and bad HPS systems in terms of feedback. The 5-series and 6-series X-drives are by far the worst BMW HPS I've driven. The only decent one in terms of feedback currently on sale is in the X1 and that's because it has a steering rack from the E90... That's it for HPS. With EPS it's far worse, there is no good one in terms of feedback in BMW's stable. The F8X is supposed to be the one but it seems unsure at best.

[myzmak]

Sorry. Forgot information and optimism weren't allowed in these here parts......

Easy man. Posting info is not a shot at anyone who is experiencing existential doubt and angst, least of all you. It is just information and a review (from a source that is known to be pretty pro-E90 in fact). Information isn't a bad thing, in this d-bag's eyes anyway. I think the more info out there the better. With many new folks around here these days, while this article might be old news to some, it isn't to all. Sharing with them can't be a bad thing, can it?

[solstice]

Originally Posted by myzmak

Sorry. Forgot information and optimism weren't allowed in these here parts......

Easy man. Posting info is not a shot at anyone who is experiencing existential doubt and angst, least of all you. It is just information and a review (from a source that is known to be pretty pro-E90 in fact). Information isn't a bad thing, in this d-bag's eyes anyway. I think the more info out there the better. With many new folks around here these days, while this article might be old news to some, it isn't to all. Sharing with them can't be a bad thing, can it?

Yeah, sorry if I was a bit harsh, it's just that I can't see it bring much if anything to the mystery of how the F8X steering will be vs other BMW EPS systems in terms of feedback. It's a system tuned specifically for the F8X and BMW say that it's on par with the E9X M3. I hope they are right even if many reviews tell a different story. We just need to see for ourselves. Maybe This is just such a sore and disappointing subject for me with BMW's current EPS systems that I just don't want to hear more about them. I'll just leave this thread alone now.

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by solstice

Yeah, sorry if I was a bit harsh, it's just that I can't see it bring much if anything to the mystery of how the F8X steering will be vs other BMW EPS systems in terms of feedback. It's a system tuned specifically for the F8X and BMW say that it's on par with the E9X M3. I hope they are right even if many reviews tell a different story. We just need to see for ourselves. Maybe This is just such a sore and disappointing subject for me with BMW's current EPS systems that I just don't want to hear more about them. I'll just leave this thread alone now.

No worries. You have a car on order (3 weeks to delivery, right?) so have you money where your mouth is. You have the right to be apprehensive. Hope the new wheels meet the expectations man.

And, yes, we need to drive this car so we can get off the damn forum and experience it!

[solstice]

Originally Posted by myzmak

No worries. You have a car on order (3 weeks to delivery, right?

Euro delivery first week in August so still a while to go for me.

[Boss330]

Thanks for the article and links. I haven't seen this before.

Quite interesting that they subjectively preferred the EPS to the HPS in so many categories. I much preferred the steering on my previous E60 in on center feedback. But in every other way the F10 is better. I thought it was something wrong with me, but at least a direct comparison test agrees with what I feel I can probably quit counseling after this thread then... I'm normal after all

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by Boss330

Thanks for the article and links. I haven't seen this before.

Quite interesting that they subjectively preferred the EPS to the HPS in so many categories. I much preferred the steering on my previous E60 in on center feedback. But in every other way the F10 is better. I thought it was something wrong with me, but at least a direct comparison test agrees with what I feel I can probably quit counseling after this thread then... I'm normal after all

Ain't none of us here normal, but you are as close as the rest of us....

(Edit: damn typo but you got my point...)

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by myzmak

Ain't none of UN here normal, but you are as close as the rest of us....

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by Boss330

haha... you look happy Boss

[ss134]

If I was as unsure about major aspects of this cars performance and feedback as some members on this forum I would certainly not have an order in for the car- I would test drive it first for sure.
I personally feel, having read all of the reviews ( and remembering many more disappointing initial reviews of the E9x M3 including steering ) that this car is going to steer better, feel better , corner harder and go faster than my old E90 M3 ( which I loved)
Only the sound remains unanswered for me but I can live with that if it turns out to be below what I am expecting.
I'm bored of these debates now and am looking forward to when everyone receives their cars and this forum is inundated with members stating how awesome the new M3/4 feels- it's going to happen because there is no way BMW could afford for this car to be anything less than the best M3 yet.
Listening to all of the reviewers whose opinion counts to me ( chris harris et all) I believe this car will be awesome, including the steering they so painstakingly developed from the ground up to be better than the E9x.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

haha... you look happy Boss