People who lease shouldnt modify their cars, sorry to say

[Tonymiabmw]

Originally Posted by Rated R

For entertaining this conversation? Yes absolutely, and regrettable as well.

Who cares lease, finance,buy enjoy. It's not gonna add inches to your dick or the car any faster. Cars are horrible investments. Unless you buy something limited and increases in value. We are talking about a 75k car. Not Ferrari F12, not a Ford GT, not the 991 GT3.......A M3/M4 you lose money with most cars when you drive them off the lot!

[/// M sa]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

I've modded all of my leased cars and never once put them back to stock at turn-in. Never was penalized, either. For some items, it's a complete waste of money though. I'd rather be satisfied with enjoying the mods while I had them and let the next owner reap the benefits than spend more money to tear them out and sell them piece by piece.

Please pm me your secret, how is that even possible? :-) for the sake of argument in this thread, all cars are bad investments anyway you look it unless you find a gem like M1 when it first came out.

[Tonymiabmw]

Is going to a strip club and throwing money at strippers a good investment? Or going to a Bar and spending 15$ a drink? No!! But I do those things cause I enjoy them. Same as cars.

[Lorde]

Originally Posted by Rated R

Absolutely not. If you don't own something free and clear what else do you call it? Lease is a fancy word for rent. It makes those who 'lease' a car feel better. Leasing a vehicle is for people who want to keep up with the Jones' but can't exactly do that, so they rent the car for a couple years. Nobody pounds their chest and declares to the world 'I leased it' lol. If you did that you'd hear 'oh....you leased it'...

[Lorde]

Originally Posted by infantrytroop22

Financing is as much renting as leasing, but okay, let's move on.

This. Because at the end of your lease, you can still opt to own the car by buying it at end of term...

[angelc5]

Question what will be better to lease buy option or to buy and finance the car from the beginning? I'm planning to keep the car.

[yemenmocha]

I'm going to start chastising my friends who say they "bought" houses, who refer to themselves as homeowners, and tell them they are just really renting it from the bank. They're not different than renters in a rental home I guess. "Yeah... we rent the house down the street on the corner..." Some here need to step on board and start correcting the standard parlance in society today. Homeowners... pfffft.

[Swancoat]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

Investing in anything that depreciates thousands of dollars fifteen minutes after your purchase it, thousands of dollars if it's damaged (however slight the damage is), and then thousands of dollars a year every subsequent year after purchase, is a questionable investment, at best.

So there's a lot of arguments for and against leasing, and yeah, it can be argued either way, and cash flow can be an issue for some people so I can understand the attraction...

But saying you're avoiding depreciation by leasing is about the most uninformed thing I've read here. In fact, you're doing quite the opposite: the lessee is paying ALL of the depreciation for an asset that BMWFS owns and getting nothing for it. When you get right down to it, that's all a lease is. You pay for all of the depreciation, and then when it's depreciated after 3 years, you have the opportunity to buy it at it's depreciated price. And yes, BMW KNOWS these things depreciated fast (witness all of the complaining in the thread about the low residuals). Why do you think the residuals are so low? Because BMW knows that's all the cars will be worth then.

I mean really, do you really think that BMW was letting you use up and depreciate their car and leave them on the hook? Heck no. You're paying for it.

Now, I'm not against leasing, but don't fool yourself. A lessee is basically paying the depreciation down to whatever level the residual is, and saying otherwise is entirely uniformed.

[GhostyM]

SMH at some of the responses in this thread.

If I owe 100k for a car.

1) I could pay the 100k, drive it for 3 years. Get sick of it, and get the 55k of it's original value back. Essentially losing 45k over the 3 years.

2) Imagine I find the same car, and get a GREAT deal on it. I pay about 750 a month for that same car on a 36 month lease. European Delivery 13% off and what have you.

After 3 years, I'm only out 27k instead of the 45k as previously mentioned for the same experience over the 3 years.

It's about the value of your dollar, if you choose to buy the car cash, that how you value your money. I bet you're the type that goes to house parties bragging about paying everything in cash.

Leasing benefits people if you can get a great deal for driving a nice car.

/rant

[Swancoat]

Originally Posted by Chipped B6

SMH at some of the responses in this thread.

If I owe 100k for a car.

1) I could pay the 100k, drive it for 3 years. Get sick of it, and get the 55k of it's original value back. Essentially losing 45k over the 3 years.

2) Imagine I find the same car, and get a GREAT deal on it. I pay about 750 a month for that same car on a 36 month lease. European Delivery 13% off and what have you.

After 3 years, I'm only out 27k instead of the 45k as previously mentioned for the same experience over the 3 years.

It's about the value of your dollar, if you choose to buy the car cash, that how you value your money. I bet you're the type that goes to house parties bragging about paying everything in cash.

Leasing benefits people if you can get a great deal for driving a nice car.

/rant

Haha, so your argument is that leasing is better IF YOU GET A GREAT DEAL on it and get Euro delivery, etc? Doesn't that apply to purchasing as well?

Good luck on leasing a 100k car for 3 years for 27k (especially a car you suggest is going to be worth only 55k). Who are you going to get to take the other side of that deal?

[48Laws]

Going into a lease, the understanding is that you are limited by mileage and years of ownership. A return date is in a contract. With financing, the purchaser doesn't have to return the car nor are they limited by mileage. In my opinion...leasing can be compared to renting on some level. And I do know about buying after a lease but it's not common.

[/// M sa]

By the way, I didn't start this thread and replied in another thread.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by Swancoat

So there's a lot of arguments for and against leasing, and yeah, it can be argued either way, and cash flow can be an issue for some people so I can understand the attraction...

But saying you're avoiding depreciation by leasing is about the most uninformed thing I've read here. In fact, you're doing quite the opposite: the lessee is paying ALL of the depreciation for an asset that BMWFS owns and getting nothing for it. When you get right down to it, that's all a lease is. You pay for all of the depreciation, and then when it's depreciated after 3 years, you have the opportunity to buy it at it's depreciated price. And yes, BMW KNOWS these things depreciated fast (witness all of the complaining in the thread about the low residuals). Why do you think the residuals are so low? Because BMW knows that's all the cars will be worth then.

I mean really, do you really think that BMW was letting you use up and depreciate their car and leave them on the hook? Heck no. You're paying for it.

Now, I'm not against leasing, but don't fool yourself. A lessee is basically paying the depreciation down to whatever level the residual is, and saying otherwise is entirely uniformed.

I didn't say I was avoiding depreciation.

I never said that.

I said cars aren't good investments because they're depreciating assets - period.

Let's say I lease a car for 36 months (10k miles per year are allotted) and at the same time, you buy the same model car outright.

I maintain the car perfectly. 36 months later, I turn it in at the end of the lease with 25,000 miles.

Your car is involved in three accidents over 36 months and at this point, you want to get rid of it. You've also racked up 25,000 miles during that time period.

Whose car is worth more?

Now let's say we change it up and my car is involved in three accidents during the lease period.

Is my car now worth less? Yes. Does it affect me? No. BMW had to bear that risk with the lease and they suffer.

Now tell me that the depreciation factor isn't more of a variable risk with buying.

[Swancoat]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

I didn't say I was avoiding depreciation.

I never said that.

I said cars aren't good investments because they're depreciating assets - period.

Let's say I lease a car for 36 months (10k miles per year are allotted) and at the same time, you buy the same model car outright.

I maintain the car perfectly. 36 months later, I turn it in at the end of the lease with 25,000 miles.

Your car is involved in three accidents over 36 months and at this point, you want to get rid of it. You've also racked up 25,000 miles during that time period.

Whose car is worth more?

Now let's say we change it up and my car is involved in three accidents during the lease period.

Is my car now worth less? Yes. Does it affect me? No. BMW had to bear that risk with the lease and they suffer.

Now tell me that the depreciation factor isn't more of a variable risk with buying.

Fine. Point is yours. You won't purchase a depreciating assist, but have no issue paying for the depreciation by leasing. Honestly, I don't know what the difference is, but if that semantic difference lets you sleep at night so be it.

I was not aware that I could put a car through three accidents and BMW would be fine and not ask you for more money.

What if you lose your job (or otherwise want to leave your lease) after ONE year?

Barring any interest rate differential, the difference in payment stream is one of cash flow. In an environment where you can get a good return (like last year), it's probably wise to lease and invest the difference elsewhere. Leasing also gives you an option after 3 years to get out of a car that has depreciated more than expected.

On the other hand, the lease is more constrained prior to the three year term being up, you have mileage limits etc. In this sense you really are driving someone else's car.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by Swancoat

Fine. Point is yours. You won't purchase a depreciating assist, but have no issue paying for the depreciation by leasing. Honestly, I don't know what the difference is, but if that semantic difference lets you sleep at night so be it.

I want the flexibility to be able to get a new car every few years without ever having to worry about any further depreciation (accidents, damage, etc.) sabotaging my attempt to sell the car for a reasonable sum.

I was not aware that I could put a car through three accidents and BMW would be fine and not ask you for more money.

Yep. If I have three, four, or five accidents during the term of the lease, it does not matter, BMW has to take the car back from me with no financial penalty. Of course my insurance would have covered the repairs so that the car is in working/normal order at turn-in.

What if you lose your job (or otherwise want to leave your lease) after ONE year?

I don't have to worry about because of the nature of the business I'm in. And I also don't foresee myself firing myself anytime soon.

Also, there are several companies that allow you to transfer your lease to someone else. And after this swap happens, BMW Financial Services or Mercedes-Benz Financial or whomever you choose to lease through goes after the new lessee if they are delinquent on a payment or if the new lesee fails to pay outright.

Furthermore, I have the option to sell the car for what the payoff is.

In fact, on my last M Sport F30 335i, I sold the car for a $500 profit with 24 months remaining on the lease. I received the payoff amount plus $500.

Not too shabby, eh?

Barring any interest rate differential, the difference in payment stream is one of cash flow. In an environment where you can get a good return (like last year), it's probably wise to lease and invest the difference elsewhere. Leasing also gives you an option after 3 years to get out of a car that has depreciated more than expected.

On the other hand, the lease is more constrained prior to the three year term being up, you have mileage limits etc. In this sense you really are driving someone else's car.

No different than the bank owning your house when you choose to utilize a mortgage.

My responses are in bold above.

[MaX PL]

there is a difference between a lease and a mortgage.

when you purchase a home, you pay the mortgage off to the bank to own the home in the end.
when you lease a car, you make payments to own nothing in the end. in your case, you want a new car every three years. payments in perpetuity and never own the car.

[drexplode]

Originally Posted by MaX PL

there is a difference between a lease and a mortgage.

when you purchase a home, you pay the mortgage off to the bank to own the home in the end.
when you lease a car, you make payments to own nothing in the end. in your case, you want a new car every three years. payments in perpetuity and never own the car.

I would be willing to bet that most of us don't really own our car(s). Financing to payoff...most of us probably sell before we officially own. So whats the difference between exiting a loan early and leasing? The answer, you can break the loan anytime you want with less effort than transferring a lease.

[/// M sa]

Plz stop comparing a home to a car. Car is a depreciating asset, yes a home can be one too if you bought at the wrong time like 2005 through 2010. I have over 40 percent equity in 4 (each) of my homes and my primary residence so the comparison of a home to a car is not valid in my opinion (or leasing).

[48Laws]

If you wait long enough a home will NEVER remain a depreciating assest but, not too many home owners are willing to weather the storm. I don't care how long you wait...a car typically will always depreciate and will continue to do so.

[RealStig]

The biggest selling points of a lease to me is the fact that it is headache free. I dont have to worry about gap insurance or being upside down or this or that if the car is totaled or stolen. I used to finance my cars and I would always worry about these things. Now I dont give a shit if its stolen or if someone hits my car while its parked. I still detail my car and take good care of it, but if something goes wrong with it like scuff marks on the doors or small chips, I say who gives a shit, it's BMW's problem. It makes driving an M3 a lot more comfortable. Before owning M3s were really stressful more than anything. I have had a full convertible car seat on the novillo leather for 3 years, god knows what happened to the leather under it. The back of the passenger seat is so bad because of my daughter's kicks, but I dont care. I enjoy my car.

[F9T]

Originally Posted by RealStig

The biggest selling points of a lease to me is the fact that it is headache free. I dont have to worry about gap insurance or being upside down or this or that if the car is totaled or stolen. I used to finance my cars and I would always worry about these things. Now I dont give a shit if its stolen or if someone hits my car while its parked. I still detail my car and take good care of it, but if something goes wrong with it like scuff marks on the doors or small chips, I say who gives a shit, it's BMW's problem. It makes driving an M3 a lot more comfortable. Before owning M3s were really stressful more than anything. I have had a full convertible car seat on the novillo leather for 3 years, god knows what happened to the leather under it. The back of the passenger seat is so bad because of my daughter's kicks, but I dont care. I enjoy my car.

I completely agree. That's why I will be leasing a car for the first time when my F80 arrives. So I don't have to give a shit.

[MarkY]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

If you wait long enough a home will NEVER remain a depreciating assest but, not too many home owners are willing to weather the storm. I don't care how long you wait...a car typically will always depreciate and will continue to do so.

I don't understand this - "not too many home owners are willing to weather the storm". Are you saying most home owners sell their houses at a loss? Unless you bought AND sold in '05-'10 (depending on where you live), most people have some equity in their home. Weathering the storm in home ownership is what it's all about. That's how you build equity.

I agree with you, cars typically always decreciate and should never be referred to as an "investment".

(Not directed at 48Laws) From a financial standpoint, leasing a car and owning (mortgaging) a home are totally different animals. Now if you want to talk about renting a home and leasing a car, there are similarities there.