BIMMERPOST M3/M4 First Ride Notes, Impressions and More Tech Details

[paddy335]

I assume all you weight obsessed people are yourselves ultra-trim, lean and fit and running ultra-low BMI's in order to minimise the extra weight your M3/4 will have to carry aorund?

Lightweight seat or a few less Big Macs?
Carbon Brakes or go easy on the ribs?

Decisions, decisions.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by paddy335

I assume all you weight obsessed people are yourselves ultra-trim, lean and fit and running ultra-low BMI's in order to minimise the extra weight your M3/4 will have to carry around?

Lightweight seat or a few less Big Macs?
Carbon Brakes or go easy on the ribs?

Decisions, decisions.

Wassup

[doc19]

Originally Posted by paddy335

I assume all you weight obsessed people are yourselves ultra-trim, lean and fit and running ultra-low BMI's in order to minimise the extra weight your M3/4 will have to carry aorund?

Lightweight seat or a few less Big Macs?
Carbon Brakes or go easy on the ribs?

Decisions, decisions.

Haha, I do that as a matter of living a healthy lifestyle... happy that it has performance benefits.

In all seriousness, the fact that they hit the weight target +/- a few kg is impressive. Everything that I have seen and read is making me very excited for the new M3/M4. After the initial introduction bugs are worked out I will be taking a very close look at the f80/f82 in a couple of years. Probably wait until the LCI. Knowing BMW they will pack the m3/m4 w/ halogens, and then switch to LEDs after the LCI.

[Never Convicted]

Originally Posted by paddy335

I assume all you weight obsessed people are yourselves ultra-trim, lean and fit and running ultra-low BMI's in order to minimise the extra weight your M3/4 will have to carry aorund?

Lightweight seat or a few less Big Macs?
Carbon Brakes or go easy on the ribs?

Decisions, decisions.

Another factor is that as well as the M3/M4 perform, they're probably not as effective in transporting sheep as your other cars. Maybe just 2 or 3 of your favorites.

[paddy335]

Originally Posted by Never Convicted

Another factor is that as well as the M3/M4 perform, they're probably not as effective in transporting sheep as your other cars. Maybe just 2 or 3 of your favorites.

Beautiful

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by Boss330

And I don't get the obsession with power besides as a "simple and easy to understand number". If you keep the power but loose weight, you will feel that while accelerating just the same way you would if you kept the weight and added power... So would people rather have a higher HP number but kept the weight???

Lower weight also has the added bonus of handling and braking improvements

Mostly correct but don't forget that power to weight becomes dominated by power alone at high speeds. This is due to the dominant acceleration hindering force being aerodynamic. Top speed is truly governed by drag, frontal area and power to the ground alone (tire losses themselves are even significant thus I didn't say power to the wheels). There is no relevance for torque (peak, average, etc.) not weight.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

DCT alone adds 60-70 lbs.

Nope, 44 lb for the E92 M3, probably less difference in the new car.

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

On a side note, previous Ms were differentiated by 75-80% new parts in the M vs their regular model counterpart. Looks like that number has significantly dropped being on 50% differentiation now.

Yes, I've commented on this already. BMW has a major corporate "offensive" on material costs and parts commonality. This making the M more standard and hence less special is a direct result of that.

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

Either way, amongst my well derseved criticisms, I am excited about the car.

Me too!

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Mostly correct but don't forget that power to weight becomes dominated by power alone at high speeds. This is due to the dominant acceleration hindering force being aerodynamic. Top speed is truly governed by drag, frontal area and power to the ground alone (tire losses themselves are even significant thus I didn't say power to the wheels). There is no relevance for torque (peak, average, etc.) not weight.

Aero drag is the major factor at high speeds, but weight never stops to be of importance as long as there is acceleration going on.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Nope, 44 lb for the E92 M3, probably less difference in the new car.



Yes, I've commented on this already. BMW has a major corporate "offensive" on material costs and parts commonality. This making the M more standard and hence less special is a direct result of that.



Me too!

Ah, right. Either way, all options and DCT are going to add a lot of weight. Between DCT, 19s, and power seats thats likely >100 lbs between those three things.

We all knew this lack of differentiation was coming especially seeing as the motor is N55 dervied and thus not a bespoke engine as weve all come to know.

The car is def going to be good, but there are certainly some areas I want to see first hand (EPS, turbo lag, etc).

[JoeFromPA]

Oh you want your 19's, your power seats, and your automatic transmission WITHOUT any extra weight? Oh, ok, let me engineer that for you...

Are you people seriously driving your m3/m4 with NOTHING extra in it? No jumper cables, no extra quarts of oil, no emegency kits or first aid kits?

The fact is that the m3 went back a solid 12 years in terms of weight. That is AWESOME. This is the first time BMW has really taken a big step back in terms of weight in....ever?

However, if you are that concerned with 10-50 pounds then you should really be ordering stripper models and then taking out the toolkit, maybe the rear seat, and anything else for your driving adventure.

Yeesh. I'm all about weight reduction but the agonization over 25 pound differences here is staggering.

[EODGoat]

Man, I know what I'm buying myself for Christmas and my birthday next year! I'm EXCITED.

[Remonster]

Originally Posted by Bigiggs

Thank you for the explanation. I must admit I do not know much on this matter.

It can get confusing when some people (eh hem, BMW) use the term "ediff" to describe a function of the traction control/ABS system that uses the brakes to sort of simulate an LSD (135i has this) but the M3/M4 have actual electronically-controlled, mechanical differentials.

[Xelloss]

Has there been any update on the issue of the BMW M3/M4 and the use of Active Sound? I'd rather have a sound, while somewhat reserved, that is true to form than an artificial sound. It's just not the same when you know it's fake.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by Xelloss

Has there been any update on the issue of the BMW M3/M4 and the use of Active Sound? I'd rather have a sound, while somewhat reserved, that is true to form than an artificial sound. It's just not the same when you know it's fake.

Will post something tomorrow. Just waiting for confirmation on one last detail.

[Timberwolf]

You guys are so worried about active sound... Coming from an M5 owner, it is totally inconsequential. I don't notice it, if anything heck I'd turn it up! Turbo cars are quiet! And if you do downpipes, the active sound will be overwhelmed anyways.

In addition with the exhaust valves, you'll be able to put in an aftermarket switch that can control the characteristics of the flap so that they stay open all the time and not just open at 3500rpms under load. That made a small but noticeable sound boost on my F10 M5.

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by Timberwolf

You guys are so worried about active sound... Coming from an M5 owner, it is totally inconsequential. I don't notice it, if anything heck I'd turn it up! Turbo cars are quiet! And if you do downpipes, the active sound will be overwhelmed anyways.

In addition with the exhaust valves, you'll be able to put in an aftermarket switch that can control the characteristics of the flap so that they stay open all the time and not just open at 3500rpms under load. That made a small but noticeable sound boost on my F10 M5.

+1

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Timberwolf

You guys are so worried about active sound... Coming from an M5 owner, it is totally inconsequential. I don't notice it, if anything heck I'd turn it up! Turbo cars are quiet! And if you do downpipes, the active sound will be overwhelmed anyways.

In addition with the exhaust valves, you'll be able to put in an aftermarket switch that can control the characteristics of the flap so that they stay open all the time and not just open at 3500rpms under load. That made a small but noticeable sound boost on my F10 M5.

No fake noise for me. I don't need others to agree with me. For my next car I'll need only non-synthesized based engine noise.

I'm glad you are enjoying your M5.

Thanks again to Jason for the update above.

[tdizzle]

Originally Posted by Timberwolf

You guys are so worried about active sound... Coming from an M5 owner, it is totally inconsequential. I don't notice it, if anything heck I'd turn it up! Turbo cars are quiet! And if you do downpipes, the active sound will be overwhelmed anyways.

In addition with the exhaust valves, you'll be able to put in an aftermarket switch that can control the characteristics of the flap so that they stay open all the time and not just open at 3500rpms under load. That made a small but noticeable sound boost on my F10 M5.

I didn't even notice it when doing the M school earlier this summer and I tried to listen for it specifically. It must be pretty subtle.

Now being outside the car when someone was WOT sounded really pleasant but being inside it was pretty quiet.

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

Precisely. DCT alone adds 60-70 lbs.

Originally Posted by swamp2

Nope, 44 lb for the E92 M3, probably less difference in the new car.

As per Jasons info, the Manual box is 26.5lbs lighter than the e92 M3 manual box. If the DCT is indeed the higher torque version, there is no chance it will be lighter than e92, so DCT difference will no doubt be significantly more weight penalty over the manual.

I wonder what fuel tank size the M4 has? 4 series has a reduced tank size of 57 litres down from e92's 63. That's a sneaky, but 'official' 11.5 lb saving right there in fuel alone, not to mention tank material

[Kayani_1]

Keeping the weight down is the best thing they could have done. Improved gas mileage is another positive.

I am not digging the whole idea of EPS steering despite the ZF redesign. What is funny is that now the BMW M division comes out and says that the regular EPS steering in 3/4 series is unacceptable for a more performance oriented car like M3/M4. To all the defenders of EPS that claimed there is nothing wrong with it in regular 3 series/4 series car. How about it now when BMW M division does not have faith in the same setup for M3/M4........so stop defending your purchase with purchase blinders


The overall power seems to be a bit of a let down in my honest opinion. Almost everyone was hoping that it was 450hp/450lb-ft of torque. So you get less hp and less torque then most were hoping for. Some even suggested that 444hp/444 lb-ft of torque to match the new M4 designation. A bit of disappointment to say the least also when you look at the red line many suggested it will be high revving at 7800-8K rpm. Also, with 18 psi of boost most can get 400 plus hp and torque from a N54 tuned. So to see BMW achieve the same and not a lot more is not very impressive.

The new C7 stingray out does BMW with more power and more torque 460/465. All for less money come on BMW. Also, BMW it is time to offer a 7-speed manual a 6-speed manual is old news.

As far as the sound is concerned I am hoping that it sounds great in person. Now keep the base price low and option prices also low. No one wants to pay $75K for a decently equipped M3/M4.

[325rider]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

One last thing: I'm thrilled with them providing base weight. If I were to go into a new f80 m3 (which is what I'd choose), I'd go no-sunroof, very few options, and would need to test drive both the DCT and manual before making a decision there.

If it's ~3300 pounds with 90% full gas tank, then I'm likely looking at a 3,350-3,400 pound SEDAN with a couple of options.

I can't get anywhere near that in the e90 m3, I can't get a porsche 911 sedan nor a porsche sedan in that weight range....I'd pretty much have to go with an STI to get into that weight range with a 4-door.

perhaps most exciting for me: My e39 m5 puts out around 410-420 crank hp. To be able to move into another vehicle with the same size but even torquier and 500 pounds less AND improved steering feel.

Wow, just wow. That'd almost be worth $1k a month.

My e90 sedan has 0 options and lightweight wheels/tires. Given that I'm pretty sure a similar civic m3 weighed on the scales at around 3550 clocks it in at a pretty close weight to 3350-3400. I HIGHLY doubt the new m4 can drive onto any scale under 3400lbs, but we'll see if BMW proves us wrong.

PS: I hate them for not making the e9x lighter with aluminum panels. Assh0les!

Originally Posted by Kayani_1

The new C7 stingray out does BMW with more power and more torque 460/465. All for less money come on BMW. Also, BMW it is time to offer a 7-speed manual a 6-speed manual is old news.

As far as the sound is concerned I am hoping that it sounds great in person. Now keep the base price low and option prices also low. No one wants to pay $75K for a decently equipped M3/M4.

Wot. No fvcking thanks…. You must not know how to drive a manual, live with one, or have one as a daily. Id like to see a poll on whether 6mt owners would prefer a 7mt or a 6mt if they could choose. Don't put these ideas in BMWs head!

[ersin]

Originally Posted by Kayani_1

The new C7 stingray out does BMW with more power and more torque 460/465. All for less money come on BMW.

But with no back seat, whereas the M3/M4 will have a proper back seat. The only thing the two cars (M3/M4 and vette) have in common is that they are both fun, fast cars. You also cannot compare the vette, albeit much improved from years past, with the quality, fit and finish of the whole car, especially the interior, with that of the BMW.

Despite what someone posted earlier (3298 lbs, probably from this early in the year prediction) the curb weight of the C7 Vette is 3444 lbs (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ad-test-review). The M3/M4 will likely weigh less than the Vette. What does this mean for performance? The same as the Vette, maybe even faster?

Originally Posted by Kayani_1

No one wants to pay $75K for a decently equipped M3/M4.

True. But it is probably worth it.


Cheers.