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      05-10-2014, 05:12 PM   #45
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This car is definetly going to be a gem and for the guys saying a 335i sounds or is better then the new m3/m4 how are you not certain if bmw was usjng the n54/n55 as unlabel prototypes in the mass to evaluate the problems that come with turbocharging an engine ? From what I can see seems like they let the civilan population do the testing and they just adjusted and spruced up the engine.
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      05-10-2014, 05:14 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbraslins View Post
Agreed. I think M3 was always about being the car that does it all.

What makes a world class engine? Is it peaky top end that makes you want to ring it's neck out every time it? The high rpm howl of a NA V8/I6? The direct, instant and linear throttle response?

All those things are amazing, but they are only one side of the coin. I loved my E90 M3, and my E46 M3. Both were amazing on track and as daily drivers. But I will be first to admit there were so many times I just wished for more mid-range for daily driving. When I test drove C63 I realized how different power delivery can also be fun. I've asked myself many times what an engine that is somewhere in between v8 AMG from C63 and S65 would be like? Would it be a better "do it all" engine? And I think BMW asked themselves the same question.

I am certain that new engine is exactly that. I think it will be a gem, just like all M engines always are.
Best post I have read about this by far. Spot on IMO.
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      05-10-2014, 05:15 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayely1 View Post
Wait.... 34 MPG combined....What?!
Don't get too excited, that's the "Queens" measurements
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      05-10-2014, 05:21 PM   #48
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Better review so far, as expected from Sutcliffe. Holding it till I see Chris Harris reviews it and German Sport Auto delivers their Super Test.

However, it seems that there is one thing missing from the car and that is the thrills not the numbers, performance or efficiency. I really hoped that it would surprise everyone to the point that I would be eager to 'upgrade' my 1M despite my dislike of bigger cars. One particular reason is I am very curious to see how the spirit of 1M as a test mule for future M cars, ended up in a 'final product' in this M3/M4 or if it would be 'much better' just because they had the time and resources and designed the whole car from scratch as a unit. But, I admit that I have mixed feelings after reading or watching all these reviews. Where is all the excitement of the reviewers that 1M enjoyed 3 years ago or some other M cars did in the past?

A side note: I don't think it sounds bad from outside; I am not a fan of the inside amplified sound thing and yes some N54 equipped cars were sounding better than this, including most aftermarket exhausts for the 1M. Hopefully, there will be fixes for that but if BMW has planned some extra profit by betting that most will eventually go for a M Performance exhaust it really is not the correct policy to launch a new M3, imho!
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Last edited by ozinaldo; 05-10-2014 at 05:35 PM.
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      05-10-2014, 05:22 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hwelvaar View Post
All I can say is: the S65 is gone. Forever. It will never come back.
Yet BMW keeps on using it in competition (engines based off the S65).
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      05-10-2014, 05:22 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hwelvaar View Post
All I can say is: the S65 is gone. Forever. It will never come back.
Each cylinder bank would make one hell of an engine for something Alfa 4C like with a super light CF monocoque body, ( Z1? ) . Never say never...
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      05-10-2014, 05:27 PM   #51
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For sure the engine is one of the most important factors before buying a car, but here it's about the entire package.
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      05-10-2014, 05:30 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YungDro View Post
Have you heard it in person? No. it sounds way better than a 335i.. your 335i stands no chance
+1

I am bored of hearing 335/435 owners say their cars sound / drive better. Fact is BMW wouldn't build the M3 if it didn't p@ss on the rest of the range from a great height. Respect it but don't make excuses for why you've not bought one.
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      05-10-2014, 05:34 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJetE90 View Post
Yet BMW keeps on using it in competition (engines based off the S65).
Hmm? The P66 is not based off the S65 at all. The only thing it has in common is that it's a V8.

Even the P65B44 is an evolution from the P60B40 which has nothing in common with a production engine.
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      05-10-2014, 05:46 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbraslins View Post
Agreed. I think M3 was always about being the car that does it all.

What makes a world class engine? Is it peaky top end that makes you want to ring it's neck out every time it? The high rpm howl of a NA V8/I6? The direct, instant and linear throttle response?

All those things are amazing, but they are only one side of the coin. I loved my E90 M3, and my E46 M3. Both were amazing on track and as daily drivers. But I will be first to admit there were so many times I just wished for more mid-range for daily driving. When I test drove C63 I realized how different power delivery can also be fun. I've asked myself many times what an engine that is somewhere in between v8 AMG from C63 and S65 would be like? Would it be a better "do it all" engine? And I think BMW asked themselves the same question.

I am certain that new engine is exactly that. I think it will be a gem, just like all M engines always are.
+1000000000000000000000000

well said!
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      05-10-2014, 05:47 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hwelvaar View Post
All I can say is: the S65 is gone. Forever. It will never come back.
Gone where? you can buy it used..
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      05-10-2014, 05:49 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UK_ View Post
+1

I am bored of hearing 335/435 owners say their cars sound / drive better. Fact is BMW wouldn't build the M3 if it didn't p@ss on the rest of the range from a great height. Respect it but don't make excuses for why you've not bought one.
exactly! +10000000000000000000
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      05-10-2014, 05:51 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
And that's where you're wrong.
Wrong?
There is no wrong or right answer when it comes your personal preference

And people who tracked their E92/E90 M3s will agree with me 100000.0000% (what you hear and get from that S65 engine)
Maybe you should experience for once (or go take a 1-day M school, you will know what I'm talking about)
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      05-10-2014, 05:51 PM   #58
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Isn't this the akrapovic performance exhaust on the m4? Im sure this will make the car sound much better.
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      05-10-2014, 05:51 PM   #59
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this is why I bought another e92 m3 instead of putting a down payment on a M4. The S65 engine paired with an Akra Evo is simply a joy to hear every day. I never got tired of up for the 2 years I owned my first e92 m3 and I'd definitely not tired of it now having my second. Maybe once akra releases an evo system and the bring out a ZCP model I'll have a look at the new turbo'ed stuff.
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      05-10-2014, 05:55 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Bubble View Post
Wrong?
There is no wrong or right answer when it comes your personal preference
If you want to say your personal preference is that an M car is all about the engine, then that's your prerogative.

But to say that M cars are all about their engines (which would be to state what's the most important aspect to the M division about their cars), you would be wrong.
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      05-10-2014, 06:08 PM   #61
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Car is still as big as an E39 M5.
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      05-10-2014, 06:16 PM   #62
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Okay I will be positive here

From the cost to operate perspective this car rocks it since it has power and agility and won't cost as much in gas and possibly insurance...
Now the tires may cost a little more

I think this car makes more use of the mdm setting

Can a car be too good it's boring at the same time? That's the feeling I got from SC but alas the emotional distillery isn't all the way there

May be this a coy scheme by BMW to under promise and over
Deliver or vv?
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      05-10-2014, 06:16 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
If you want to say your personal preference is that an M car is all about the engine, then that's your prerogative.

But to say that M cars are all about their engines (which would be to state what's the most important aspect to the M division about their cars), you would be wrong.
I guess the word "wrong" is your favorite word on the internet.
People are attracted to M cars because of its performance,
do you know where performance comes from? That's right, the Engine!
Do you know why people say M cars are fun? You're right, because of high revving engines and their responsiveness!
Do you know why people get so emotional toward M cars? Because it sounds nice!
Where does sound come from? The engine!

It's all about the engine, I hope you get it this time.

Last edited by 3M TAPE; 05-10-2014 at 06:23 PM.
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      05-10-2014, 06:22 PM   #64
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Many of the women in my life equate the engine to be the heart or
Their named car or truck or Ferrari what have you

They always ask... Does your car have a big engine? And does it sound like thunder? And is it a manual? And how old is he or she?

Pop the hood of the s85 and s65 and there is some meat there

Open the hood for the s55 and it's ok honey it doesn't look like much but between the sheets it will blow your mind

All joking aside it seems like the s55 has the best of both the NA and turbo worlds and i see a marketing scheme for the after market especially from m perf parts

Still an awesome car that will definitely be a
Drifting meister
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      05-10-2014, 06:23 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Bubble View Post
I guess the word "wrong" is your favorite word on the internet.
People are attracted to M cars because of its performance,
do you know where performance comes from? That's right, the Engine!
Do you know why people say M cars are fun? You're right, because of high revving engines and their responsiveness!
Do you know why people get so emotional towards M cars? Because it sounds nice!
Where does the sound come from? The engine!

It's all about the engine, I hope you get it this time.
No, wrong is only my favorite word when describing your posts.

Sounds "nice" would not be heard often when commenting on the the E46 M3 for example.

Don't get me wrong, the engine is an integral part of M cars. Just like the suspension, brakes, steering, feel, etc. More importantly, how M is able to take all those factors, make them compliment each other, to make a beautifully balanced car.

If you want a car that's all about an engine, go buy a C63 AMG.
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      05-10-2014, 06:34 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
Hmm? The P66 is not based off the S65 at all. The only thing it has in common is that it's a V8.

Even the P65B44 is an evolution from the P60B40 which has nothing in common with a production engine.
@BlackJetE90 said competition, not exclusively DTM.
The Z4 GT3 and Z4 GTE still use a beefed up homologated S65.
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