Flash tune vs chip tune

[AtlantisF80]

I am new to the world of tunes whether they be flash tunes or chip tunes to our cars.

1. What is the difference between the two types of tunes?
2. Why do flash tunes cost more than a chip tune (i.e., BMS stage 1)?

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

You should also add the JB4 (chip Tune / piggyback) combined with a special back end flash into the mix.. Best of both worlds Takes the positives of the Chip / piggyback tune and flash tune and combines them into one..

Also I think a better comparison would be JB4 versus a flash tune.. The BMS stage1 is a pretty basic tune but a great value as you get a nice safe bump in power for a crazy low price.

Mike

[parabmw]

Do the flash. Way safer, consistent and reliable than a piggyback.
Everyone would agree that a good flash is always preferred over a piggyback.
I've had both and flash was better in everyway

[BPMSport]

"Chip" tunes don't really exist for newer vehicles. Back in the day, the DME or "engine computer" had an actual EEPROM "chip" that was often replaced with a reprogrammed version in order to tune the car.

In today's time this "chip" is not removable from the ECU, but is instead "flashed" through the system, replacing the data on the internal non removable chip, or what we would now call the processor. Other ECUs have external flash memory which doesn't apply here.

Flash tunes are essentially "chipping" without the need for physically removing or replacing anything on the ECU itself.

Piggybacks are external devices that tie into the engine computers wiring, and essentially trick it into making more power. They don't change the factory engine control parameters at all, so they are incapable of removing speed limits, removing cold start, recalibrating sport displays, or anything internally controlled by the ECU that can't be externally manipulated (such as WG control, MAF etc). Flash tunes have the ability to reprogram the ECU itself, so they have the ability to control engine operation without any external controls or devices.


Hope this helps clarify flashes, chips, and piggyback controllers.

[kerm1t]

Flash. Went from jb4 e85 to obd2

[FriedPiston]

Originally Posted by Eloo818

I am new to the world of tunes whether they be flash tunes or chip tunes to our cars.

1. What is the difference between the two types of tunes?
2. Why do flash tunes cost more than a chip tune (i.e., BMS stage 1)?

Questions like these often get interpreted in a million different ways, and you WILL get varying opinions and responses ranging real tuning professionals to people who have zero to minimal EFI tuning experience.

My advice is to take a few days or weeks to read up and do basic research, so you can get a better understanding of what makes them all different. Really spend the time to filter through marketing oriented statements, as well as preferential bias. This applies to everyone and anyone that's new to tuning.

At the end of the day, you will gain more knowledge, and become more confident in choosing the right path for your goals and intended application.

Good luck!

[SROC3]

OBD flashing will ALWAYS be better than a piggy back. Hands down. As Mike from BPM stated - "Flash tunes have the ability to reprogram the ECU itself, so they have the ability to control engine operation without any external controls or devices."

I had an ESS piggy back before and it was so-so.....erratic curves on the power delivery and it got too annoying for me driving on a daily basis. Having said that, OBD flash tunes are NOT created equal. The tuner really has to have an excellent understanding of programming and how to properly manipulate the timing/boost curves and fuel ratios.

Personally, I would strongly recommend you look into the BPM tune. Not trying to be a fanboy here but they really have figured it all out. Daily driving, hard acceleration, even rev matching in Sport+ (which no other tuner has figured out yet). And to top it all off - their customer service is second to none.

Good luck man and hope you find your tune of choice!!!!

[cmacclel]

Easy decision for me. If my car has a warranty I go with a Piggy Back device when the warranty is expired I go for a real tune unless the tune is 100% not going to effect the warranty.

[parabmw]

Originally Posted by cmacclel

Easy decision for me. If my car has a warranty I go with a Piggy Back device when the warranty is expired I go for a real tune unless the tune is 100% not going to effect the warranty.

Piggyback is just as easy to be flagged for warranty. So your logic is off.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by parabmw

Piggyback is just as easy to be flagged for warranty. So your logic is off.

More fake news. As discussed many times a properly setup piggyback is invisible once removed since it keeps the DME seeing all stock values. Flash mapping can do some things you can't do with a piggyback like remove the speed limiter, adjust the VANOS tables, exhaust burbles, and so forth, but flashing the car comes with its own additional risks. Those that really want the best features and tuning run both. BMS provides free MHD based back end flash maps for use with the JB4.

Mike

[parabmw]

This has been debated before. Many have been flagged after removal.
Why do vendors try to mislead customers. It is pretty sad. Just to make a buck.
If it's invisible then I'm sure you'd guarantee the warranty coverage.

[FriedPiston]

Originally Posted by parabmw

This has been debated before. Many have been flagged after removal.
Why do vendors try to mislead customers. It is pretty sad. Just to make a buck.
If it's invisible then I'm sure you'd guarantee the warranty coverage.

It's fake news. Just check the logs off any piggyback unit, and it will be easy to understand how boost manipulation works by way of intercepting the signal going to the DME. This makes it very difficult to identify the root cause of any data anomaly captured in FASTA, as the possibilities could be due to a number reasons, such as fuel quality.

However, the factory warranty shouldn't be an issue at all if you knowingly modify any car beyond its intended design. All tunes have an off road use/racing only disclaimer. End of story.

[parabmw]

I agree. It's pretty sad if your only marketing point is that it is invisible to detect.
If your concern is a reliable consistent and safer tune then flash is the way to go.
Shows the vendors ethic value system when they try to promote invisibility as a major selling feature.

[LongBeachDinanFan]

Originally Posted by parabmw

I agree. It's pretty sad if your only marketing point is that it is invisible to detect.
If your concern is a reliable consistent and safer tune then flash is the way to go.
Shows the vendors ethic value system when they try to promote invisibility as a major selling feature.

Looked like they were just calling you out for spreading fake news to me. We all know there is only one tune that has a warranty. For everything else you take your chances but flashing is way easier to detect than a good piggyback. It's just fact.

[dbperformance]

Piggyback or ecu tuning, both will always be visible by the dealer. They will send the data of your car to Munich for example, and they will even see how many hp and nm the car used...

[LongBeachDinanFan]

Originally Posted by dannyvdberg

Piggyback or ecu tuning, both will always be visible by the dealer. They will send the data of your car to Munich for example, and they will even see how many hp and nm the car used...

Wrong. With a piggyback the car thinks its running the factory horsepower. That's the benefit and the curse of the piggyback.

[Who's on first]

Originally Posted by cmacclel

Easy decision for me. If my car has a warranty I go with a Piggy Back device when the warranty is expired I go for a real tune unless the tune is 100% not going to effect the warranty.

This is funny.

Please ignore.

[Who's on first]

Originally Posted by LongBeachDinanFan

Wrong. With a piggyback the car thinks its running the factory horsepower. That's the benefit and the curse of the piggyback.

Wrong again. My 15' M4 had a JB4 on it.

I removed it ~4 months prior to trading it in.

It could not be CPO'd due to the previous piggyback.

Everything is visible if they look for it.

End.

Of.

Story.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by Who's on first

Wrong again. My 15' M4 had a JB4 on it.

I removed it ~4 months prior to trading it in.

It could not be CPO'd due to the previous piggyback.

Everything is visible if they look for it.

End.

Of.

Story.

I really doubt that. I've had customers buy CPO cars only to later find they had a JB4 on it they didn't even know about. If you were not able to CPO you must have been flagged for some reason long before you went to take it in.

Mike

[EALm4]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

I really doubt that. I've had customers buy CPO cars only to later find they had a JB4 on it they didn't even know about. If you were not able to CPO you must have been flagged for some reason long before you went to take it in.

Mike

Had a JB4 physically on the car when bought CPO?


But JB4 + BEF = win
I find that the convenience of having the JB4 along with the BEF to be great. The active sound delete, meth control, flap control, boost control, etc... compliment the BEF very well.

[Who's on first]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

I really doubt that. I've had customers buy CPO cars only to later find they had a JB4 on it they didn't even know about. If you were not able to CPO you must have been flagged for some reason long before you went to take it in.

Mike

Ok.

I can just tell you 1st hand. I have no skin in the game.

Everything is visible if they look.

[FriedPiston]

Originally Posted by Who's on first

Everything is visible if they look for it.

I agree with this 100%. Everything is visible physically if anyone takes a few minutes to look, and the mods were left installed on the car during a dealer visit. However, I believe there might be more to your story than what you were told by the dealer, or what you're willing to share with us.

Dealers have no clue on what to look for in FASTA. It would require a field rep or someone with in depth knowledge of the DME to know what they're looking for. Again, here is an example of a FASTA data capture provided by Shiv@Procede: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=651281

I personally don't care for flash vs piggyback. This debate has been going on for decades dating back to the N54 platform and beyond. I believe some of us only care to chime in to set the record straight. This is the reason why I told the OP to do his own research, because he will get varying opinions and responses ranging from real tuning professionals to novices as I forewarned him.

Bottom line, if you modify your car at all, you have no right to cry about warranty if you ever get a denied claim. This is the end of the story.