F80 M3 scale weight - 3562 lbs (no driver, full tank, 6MT, CF roof, 19" wheels)

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Agreed, parts commonality goes a long way in terms of reducing manufacturing costs. For example, it is why I specified that the alarm does not have a huge impact on weight, the only meaningful addition I see would be the siren.

This is correct to a point. A car without parking sensors is not going to have the various wiring harnesses for parking sensors, the parking sensor module, and obviously the parking sensors themselves. However, I'm sure the core wiring harness doesn't change just like the fuse panel is going to have a spot for PDC.

This applies to many systems.

[M4TW]

Originally Posted by AhsanU

I think most people are upset about the claimed weight savings than anything else. Obviously the upcoming M3/M4 will be quicker than an E9X M3 in every aspect, there's no one saying otherwise, but the fact we were misled is what annoys most of us I guess.

It'll be a beast of a car no doubt, but BMW really shouldn't have advertised a product that they failed to deliver at the end. I wouldn't be surprised if people didn't buy it because of the fact they were misled, despite the fact that weight really isn't much a factor - it's the principle of the matter.

Another principle that ought to be thrown into the mix here is innocent until proven guilty I say. The NA press release from BMW made some clear claims and I would expect they will be putting the reverse gears of the new ///M's to serious use while scraping egg off their faces if the information was false. Meanwhile only suspicion has been raised so far based on one unofficial weigh-in of a pre-production model. It's premature for pitchforks and torches.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by M4TW

Another principle that ought to be thrown into the mix here is innocent until proven guilty I say. The NA press release from BMW made some clear claims and I would expect they will be putting the reverse gears of the new ///M's to serious use while scraping egg off their faces if the information was false. Meanwhile only suspicion has been raised so far based on one unofficial weigh-in of a pre-production model. It's premature for pitchforks and torches.

Agree 100%

It's way to early to conclude that we have been misled by BMW based on one unofficial weigh-in on a pre production model.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by Boss330

Agree 100%

It's way to early to conclude that we have been misled by BMW based on one unofficial weigh-in on a pre production model.

I agree that it's too early to jump to conclusions but I agree because it's only one data point.

What constitutes an official weigh-in (not intended to be sarcastic, just curious)?

In another sub-forum here, I made a comment about potential changes to a car set to be officially revealed in October. Only the test mules (pre-production cars, obviously) have been spotted thus far. No reveal of any kind.

Another forum member (an M3 owner that works in the industry) responded and informed me that the car's major design components have already been finalized, despite the fact that both the reveal and launch are still several months down the road.

I would think that's the case with the F80 and F82 as well. They've both been "done" for a while now. I don't think you're going to see any last-minute substantial changes that will drastically affect the weight of either the F80/F82. Exhaust note tuning? Sure. Tweaking the electronics to work out any bugs prior to launch, finalizing the wheel colors, etc.? Probably.

My point is that the pre-production car shouldn't be dismissed as a potentially inaccurate representation of the final model.

BMW has been preparing for mass production of the F80/F82 for months and months. And they've been prepping the cars for launches in different markets. Changing a major design element would cost boat loads of money. Perhaps if a major safety issue came up (the type that would necessitate a recall), then a drastic change could be implemented and the launch pushed back.

Now, if there were all sorts of data recording instruments on the pre-production car (which obviously won't make it to production), then that's a different story.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

I agree that it's too early to jump to conclusions but I agree because it's only one data point.

What constitutes an official weigh-in (not intended to be sarcastic, just curious)?

In another sub-forum here, I made a comment about potential changes to a car set to be officially revealed in October. Only the test mules (pre-production cars, obviously) have been spotted thus far. No reveal of any kind.

Another forum member (an M3 owner that works in the industry) responded and informed me that the car's major design components have already been finalized, despite the fact that both the reveal and launch are still several months down the road.

I would think that's the case with the F80 and F82 as well. They've both been "done" for a while now. I don't think you're going to see any last-minute substantial changes that will drastically affect the weight of either the F80/F82. Exhaust note tuning? Sure. Tweaking the electronics to work out any bugs prior to launch, finalizing the wheel colors, etc.? Probably.

My point is that the pre-production car shouldn't be dismissed as a potentially inaccurate representation of the final model.

BMW has been preparing for mass production of the F80/F82 for months and months. And they've been prepping the cars for launches in different markets. Changing a major design element would cost boat loads of money. Perhaps if a major safety issue came up (the type that would necessitate a recall), then a drastic change could be implemented and the launch pushed back.

Now, if there were all sorts of data recording instruments on the pre-production car (which obviously won't make it to production), then that's a different story.

I used the phrase "official" because that's what M4TW did. I actually first wrote "un witnessed", but changed to "official" since that's what he used

IMHO it would mean a weigh-in that is witnessed and verified by more than one person at unknown scales and unknown specs...

As regards the pre-production differences, we have at least seen these differences compared to the show versions:

-Front strut brace in metal instead of CF
-Rear sub frame in a different fit and finish

So, who knows if the pre-production car being weighed had steel strut brace, steel drive shaft, solid output shafts, or even a 80l fuel tank etc?

[M4TW]

Originally Posted by Boss330

I used the phrase "official" because that's what M4TW did. I actually first wrote "un witnessed", but changed to "official" since that's what he used

IMHO it would mean a weigh-in that is witnessed and verified by more than one person at unknown scales and unknown specs...

As regards the pre-production differences, we have at least seen these differences compared to the show versions:

-Front strut brace in metal instead of CF
-Rear sub frame in a different fit and finish

So, who knows if the pre-production car being weighed had steel strut brace, steel drive shaft, solid output shafts, or even a 80l fuel tank etc?

My apologies for my careless use of language. I meant official as in a verifiable, consistent weight - using production models and with no wiggle room. I'd also like to add that BMW's statement about weight wasn't just an off-the-cuff remark by a low-level employee, it was deliberately put in an official press release.

Intelligent lightweight design was a top priority in the development of the BMW M3 and BMW M4. The goal was to minimize curb weight in order to give both models outstanding driving dynamics and exemplary efficiency. These measures have delivered impressive results, giving the BMW M4 Coupe a DIN curb weight of 1,497 kilograms, around 80 kilograms lighter than a comparably equipped predecessor model – with benefits for driving dynamics and fuel consumption as well.

They weren't guessing at the weight when they stated this. It was a clear representation about what ought to have been a known fact (i.e. not a prediction) circulated to the public and intended to be relied on. Sorry, but I just don't see a manufacturer like BMW flippantly falsely advertising key aspects of their new offerings in class-action happy North America. If not a consumer class action, they would also need to fear being hauled before various competition tribunals by their many motivated unfriendly competitors.

Folks, the M3/4 is making this weight unless proven otherwise or BMW issues a retraction. I have the weight of the company behind me at this point.

Edit to add this quote from bmwusa.com on the new M4

This commitment to function driven design results in reduction of up to 180 lbs. compared to its predecessor model, ultimately lowering the center of gravity and improving steering response and precision.

Once again. An official statement that stands until proven otherwise.

[JRV]

Guys it says it on BMWUSA that auto curb weight is 3595 and manual is 3540 for the M3. That is pretty much spot on with what was measured. That's still over 100 lbs less than the current M3.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

This is correct to a point. A car without parking sensors is not going to have the various wiring harnesses for parking sensors, the parking sensor module, and obviously the parking sensors themselves. However, I'm sure the core wiring harness doesn't change just like the fuse panel is going to have a spot for PDC.

This applies to many systems.

Agreed, we are on the same page . This is the reason for me posting all the options and what could add weight from those options.

[hellrotm]

Fun fact.

28 lbs of weight loss comes from the new lithium battery.

Maybe an easy upgrade for E9x M3 owners.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

Fun fact.

28 lbs of weight loss comes from the new lithium battery.

Maybe an easy upgrade for E9x M3 owners.

Damn! Most car batteries weigh around 45 lbs, so that's nearly half the weight. I'd jump on that for sure if I were an E9x owner.

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

Fun fact.

28 lbs of weight loss comes from the new lithium battery.

Maybe an easy upgrade for E9x M3 owners.

Didn't know they went this direction. Very nice. Battery weight is usually (but not always) behind the rear axle too, so that's a nice chunk removed from an important inertial point.

[e39>all]

Relax, it's just a dead body in the trunk

[ixse]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

Damn! Most car batteries weigh around 45 lbs, so that's nearly half the weight. I'd jump on that for sure if I were an E9x owner.

there has always been mini hi perf batteries that weight near 2x lb range.. just coated 5~600 dollars.

[catpat8000]

Originally Posted by AhsanU

I think most people are upset about the claimed weight savings than anything else. Obviously the upcoming M3/M4 will be quicker than an E9X M3 in every aspect, there's no one saying otherwise, but the fact we were misled is what annoys most of us I guess.

It'll be a beast of a car no doubt, but BMW really shouldn't have advertised a product that they failed to deliver at the end. I wouldn't be surprised if people didn't buy it because of the fact they were misled, despite the fact that weight really isn't much a factor - it's the principle of the matter.

To a first approximation, I don't think *anyone* cares about this. BMW is hoping for something like > 10,000 cars per year in sales. Do you think they care about a dozen people on a forum complaining, some of whom wouldn't be buying the car in real life anyway?

[Kadema]

Originally Posted by catpat8000

To a first approximation, I don't think *anyone* cares about this. BMW is hoping for something like > 10,000 cars per year in sales. Do you think they care about a dozen people on a forum complaining, some of whom wouldn't be buying the car in real life anyway?

In a way, yes I do. Bimmerpost is one of the top hits when you google for an M3 forum. I think they care. I don't know to what extent and I think they wouldn't let us know, in order to avoid creating further dependencies.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

Fun fact.

28 lbs of weight loss comes from the new lithium battery.

Maybe an easy upgrade for E9x M3 owners.

Great point. However, is there anything special about the new car making this non-retrofitable? I though I read something about some new tech needed to accompany the battery.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by JRV

Guys it says it on BMWUSA that auto curb weight is 3595 and manual is 3540 for the M3. That is pretty much spot on with what was measured.

Precisely, this weighing being official, monitored, observed, validated, calibrated, whatever, not important. The car clearly does not meet BMW's claim of 80 kg lighter than a comparably equipped E90 M3, period. There is no way to massage their official numbers nor this weighing and get 80 kg.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by catpat8000

To a first approximation, I don't think *anyone* cares about this. BMW is hoping for something like > 10,000 cars per year in sales. Do you think they care about a dozen people on a forum complaining, some of whom wouldn't be buying the car in real life anyway?

Essentially this.


Many of the people complaining won't be buying the car anyway.........at least not anytime soon. This car will sell like hotcakes.

[turbo8765]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Precisely, this weighing being official, monitored, observed, validated, calibrated, whatever, not important. The car clearly does not meet BMW's claim of 80 kg lighter than a comparably equipped E90 M3, period. There is no way to massage their official numbers nor this weighing and get 80 kg.

Correct.

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Essentially this.


Many of the people complaining won't be buying the car anyway.........at least not anytime soon. This car will sell like hotcakes.

It will sell well even if it is close to 3600 lbs.

I'm just disappointed bc BMW had the opportunity to be revolutionary and make the M3/4 dominate again and passed . The competition has been improving by leaps and bounds in dynamics and performance , while BMW has gone to a mass market efficiency approach .

[catpat8000]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

I'm just disappointed bc BMW had the opportunity to be revolutionary and make the M3/4 dominate again and passed . The competition has been improving by leaps and bounds in dynamics and performance , while BMW has gone to a mass market efficiency approach .

You may be right. You may be wrong. But you definitely don't know this yet.

[mithiral67]

The journalist have praised recent M cars (M5, M6, M SUVs) for driving like they weight 500lbs less and being more powerful than the engine rating. If the m3/4 drive like they have half that benefit, the cars going to be amazing. And if they drive like they are 500lb lighter, they will again be the bench mark. Lets weight and see.