What to do if car loses control?

[HighlyMedicated]

Originally Posted by Candide13

In my experience, the hardest thing to learn consciously is not to lift the gas pedal when you are encountering trailing throttle oversteer. From regular driving, it just seems very counterintuitive to add a little bit more throttle in that situation, to help the rear tires regain traction. Throw in a bit of rain and downhill curves to that situation and you have a real challenge on your hands..

I didn't get a trailing oversteer at 160mph since I slowrd down. I was just saying I felt the rear a little light and it wobbled slightly but I didn't lose traction...so I lifted off the gas to slow down while being able to stay in control if anything happened. Always 100% alert and aware of the scenario outside. There was no need to brake either, there was plenty of space, the road slightly curved and i adjusted when I felt the wobble and lifted off. In CP M the front is fairly high so the drag at such high speeds is immense with the higher center of gravity which caused the rear to experience more pressuren like I was about to fly and take off. Tires can only handle so many G's. I can easily fix with lowering springs but my car is a daily and I don't drive that fast now that I got a feel for the tune. When driving you are one with the car and it told me to slow down there and I listened, Its all about feeling in cars...thats the best part, you, the machine, and the road! The amazing engineering sound of our motors and the G forces from such innovations!

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by HighlyMedicated

Great info, thank you...just hope I remember when such a thing happens to me. Just takes practice indeed as others have mentioned. My rear started to wobble at 160mph, luckily didn't lose any traction but kept hands on wheel incase I needed to counter and I lifted off the gas until I slowed to a normal speed. Definitely need to point the wheel to where I want to go or else when grip is regained it doesn't go in the wrong direction! Pedal modulation I need to practice indeed! Other noted its almost natural for us to correct the situation, we don't want to crash so you feel the car acting up and try to correct it!

The video at 135mph woah that steering wheel was going all over the place, thats why banks and slight curves can be deceiving! So much momentum the car wants to lose itself but thankfully its short compared to turns!

And that orange M4 lol, on the streets I tend to brake not add more gas when fishtailing, I know I can't control it so I hope it stops asap!

Great info yall

Originally Posted by HighlyMedicated

I didn't get a trailing oversteer at 160mph since I slowrd down. I was just saying I felt the rear a little light and it wobbled slightly but I didn't lose traction...so I lifted off the gas to slow down while being able to stay in control if anything happened. Always 100% alert and aware of the scenario outside. There was no need to brake either, there was plenty of space, the road slightly curved and i adjusted when I felt the wobble and lifted off. In CP M the front is fairly high so the drag at such high speeds is immense with the higher center of gravity which caused the rear to experience more pressuren like I was about to fly and take off. Tires can only handle so many G's. I can easily fix with lowering springs but my car is a daily and I don't drive that fast now that I got a feel for the tune. When driving you are one with the car and it told me to slow down there and I listened, Its all about feeling in cars...thats the best part, you, the machine, and the road! The amazing engineering sound of our motors and the G forces from such innovations!

There is a lot of contradiction in your post. When the rear gets loose while you are decelerating, it IS trailing throttle oversteer.

First question, were you DSC fully off? If not, then DSC/MDM likely did its thing to keep you on the road.

It is also important to understand that grip and slip are not an on-off thing, you don't need to "lose traction" to get oversteer. Tires, to generate grip, need to slip. This is all the time, regardless if the amount of grip they generate. The greater the grip, the greater the slip angle up to a point where tires keep sliding but don't generate any additional grip (they are still gripping though). Oversteer is simply a state where the rear tires are slipping more than the front ones.

In the scenario you describe, you felt the rear getting "wobbly" because you were experiencing trailing throttle oversteer. You were able to correct it through steering input even if you lifted off throttle because you were still far from the limit of the tires. It is quite possible to recover from trailing throttle oversteer through counter-steering only without the re-application of throttle, however you need a lot of room to do so, it is not very elegant (quite nerveracking) and you lose a lot of speed in the process (not good for lap times).

If you would have been closer to the limit of the tires, the outcome could have become quite disastrous.

[HighlyMedicated]

Icic when i think oversteer i think somewhat of a drift where ass moves a little further than the front.

I did have traction on but i went 150 in my old M4 and didn't wobble at all. Was so smooth i took a picture. There was a very slight curve like a couple degrees to the left but nothing drastic. Start of curve felt wobble a little wobble/instability in the rear so I let of the gas and I never hit brake until i was cruising a few miles after. Luckily it was no where near the intensity of the video but i just held the wheel firm and let go of gas. Probably was dsc and the turn with the speed to feel light and shaky in the rear. True if it was about to lose grip it would have been worse, but I had to let go of the gas pedal, wasnt expecting the turn to come so fast , and let the engine bring the speed back to normal. I am trying to drive with mdm on but when I see the orange thing flicker with it on i wonder how it be if it was off. Most roads in la are shitty, if mdm or gsc off and i go anout 30-80 on the street hitting uneven pavement it flashes a bunch. Without it on would i just zoom forward or will the part where dsc needed to come on make me swing out ? I just use trAction on cause on streets its for fun and safetly over the fastest time. Just need practice I guess but hard to simiulate shiiity roads on a nice paved track!

[GlazierGlaze]

Originally Posted by Powerslide

Funny you should say that - I saw a C7 spin out right in front of me only an hour before my spin!

Was that before or after the 370Z slingshot across track into the wall?

[bd307]

Originally Posted by HighlyMedicated

Icic when i think oversteer i think somewhat of a drift where ass moves a little further than the front.

I did have traction on but i went 150 in my old M4 and didn't wobble at all.

Please remove those stupid pictures you have there.

[te37]

Originally Posted by bd307

Please remove those stupid pictures you have there.

Police? Is that you?

[bd307]

Originally Posted by te37

Police? Is that you?

Does it matter either way?

[HighlyMedicated]

I will remove the picture if you remove your avatar of some stoned dog wearing sunglasses. That alone is enough for me to question your personality type, besides being one of those ass hole type power trippin individuals that has been bullyed growing up and now that your old enough, you try to enforce demands and express your puny opinion when you troll this thread and pop up like a rent a cop. Are you bitter and hate on anything thats not as square as your godly goodness wholesome life?

You act like that picture is porno and will corrupt the minds of our children members...go try to be a moderator at cesar milans forum if just going to hate and be negative.

[scotty_miller]

No one person has said it on here but one of the best things to do to learn how to handle a car when loosing control is go on a skid pad. Or if your track event doesn't have one go to an old empty parking lot after a rain storm and induce understeer and oversteer and learn how the car will react and how you need to react. It'll help you develop a muscle memory so when you're in a situation at the track you'll know to react. It'll also help you learn how to rotate the car, throttle steer the car, or slide the car through a corner.

Side note. Ignore all the over calculated people stating lap times and % of throttle that they lifted and somehow relate that to how it helped them save an upset. They make me laugh. Just drive the damn car to learn. No lap timer no "calculations". Leave the ego at the door and go have fun

[Powerslide]

Originally Posted by GlazierGlaze

Was that before or after the 370Z slingshot across track into the wall?

Before the 370Z - I didn't see the 370z incident - but my instructor pointed it out by the wall as we went by at reduced speed ? - makes me that much more cautious but eager at same time to learn proper throttle, steering and brake coordination with DSC off (as crazy and as contradictory as that may sound).

[Powerslide]

Originally Posted by scotty_miller

No one person has said it on here but one of the best things to do to learn how to handle a car when loosing control is go on a skid pad. Or if your track event doesn't have one go to an old empty parking lot after a rain storm and induce understeer and oversteer and learn how the car will react and how you need to react. It'll help you develop a muscle memory so when you're in a situation at the track you'll know to react. It'll also help you learn how to rotate the car, throttle steer the car, or slide the car through a corner.

Side note. Ignore all the over calculated people stating lap times and % of throttle that they lifted and somehow relate that to how it helped them save an upset. They make me laugh. Just drive the damn car to learn. No lap timer no "calculations". Leave the ego at the door and go have fun

I agree that you don't learn how to do something with Laptimer apps - but they are indispensible for going back and analyzing things after the fact when you're not sure how/why they happened (from my spin I was able to go back and see/confirm it was lift oversteer that got me - as I was not aware that I had lifted off the throttle so abruptly).

You can't beat the forensic capabilities of these apps for after-the-fact investigation/analysis (but at the same time - I agree with your point on muscle memory/practice being indispensable from a prospective point of view).

Bottom line - there is no "either or" approach that is right - if possible - use both!

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Powerslide

I agree that you don't learn how to do something with Laptimer apps - but they are indispensible for going back and analyzing things after the fact when you're not sure how/why they happened (from my spin I was able to go back and see/confirm it was lift oversteer that got me - as I was not aware that I had lifted off the throttle so abruptly).

You can't beat the forensic capabilities of these apps for after-the-fact investigation/analysis (but at the same time - I agree with your point on muscle memory/practice being indispensable from a prospective point of view).

Bottom line - there is no "either or" approach that is right - if possible - use both!

^This

I believe it is good to understand the theory to become a better seat-of-the-pants driver. When you are driving, there is no time for analysis, you drive by reflex. But understanding the theory will help build the proper reflexes.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by HighlyMedicated

I did have traction on

That is a key point repeated in this thread: don't rely on correction you do as a driver with DSC/MDM on as a reference point. DSC/MDM alters the behaviour of the car behind the scenes. The same corrections with DSC off can send you in the wall.

Further, the "wobble" you felt could also have been induced by the DSC itself...

[MSups6]

Hard to put into words.

To me its other you know or you don't, i learned fast and natural with no schooling.

You cant teach feel for a car or driving instincts, some just will never be good or great drivers no matter how many driving school events they do.

Only advice i can give is RWD and winter, you learn fast.

[AustinTrkJunkie]

So I've been invited to give hot laps at COTA on the 17th for the Audi club, will be driving R8-V10's...looking forward to it...

Who else?

[Powerslide]

Originally Posted by MSups6

Hard to put into words.

To me its other you know or you don't, i learned fast and natural with no schooling.

You cant teach feel for a car or driving instincts, some just will never be good or great drivers no matter how many driving school events they do.

Only advice i can give is RWD and winter, you learn fast.

Having grown up in the Chicago area and having a drivers license for about 30 years now - yes - winter and lots of snow and ice (and rain) do teach you how to correct oversteer AT LOW SPEEDS - but coming blazing out of a 110 degree turn at 50 mph with the steering wheel pointing at 2:00 in 3rd gear at an rpm where you have close to 425 hp and 406 lb feet (at the crank) at full throttle - and DSC fully-off, that's a far different story than putting the tail out in snow at 5-20 mph...

In the snow/ice - tail end drifts out - I don't even have to think about it to immediately and successfully correct it - the latter situation above, however - was more like

[HighlyMedicated]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

That is a key point repeated in this thread: don't rely on correction you do as a driver with DSC/MDM on as a reference point. DSC/MDM alters the behaviour of the car behind the scenes. The same corrections with DSC off can send you in the wall.

Further, the "wobble" you felt could also have been induced by the DSC itself...

Yes I know i have mdm or off now, that happened before this thread...i mentioned that it happened long ago not recently after this thread.

Learned a good amount from this thread and the reason for this forum! Thanks guys, lets keep sharing and learning everyday!

[HighlyMedicated]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

^This

I believe it is good to understand the theory to become a better seat-of-the-pants driver. When you are driving, there is no time for analysis, you drive by reflex. But understanding the theory will help build the proper reflexes.

I do agree that if you know info before it happens you consciously know what to do and expect. Thanks guys for such great info. Traction and control is very important if not the essence of driving so you don't crash and risk the lives of others !

[HighlyMedicated]

The skidpad is definitely a way to learn the limits, but every turn is diff, angle of turn in, amount of thread on tires, how sharp the turn is and how much grip is left on your tires is more driver from past experiences. Books and forums are a helpful tool but drivers experiences and driving with proper tires and mindset is key as well!

[redpriest]

Practice. Skid pad. Lots of practice. Lots of screw ups.

Honestly, what I did was just do track day after track day, and in "safe" turns with no one around me, I would purposely induce oversteer, either by being too heavy on the throttle in mid turn, and then correct it.

Making friends with other drivers better than you. Talking with them about various situations, etc.

I still screw it up every now and then, and I have the video to back it. Going back and figuring out what you did wrong.

Below was my introduction to lift-off oversteer. I very slightly lifted off the throttle and this was the result. I had to go back through my data to see it:

[MaynardZed]

Originally Posted by redpriest

Practice. Skid pad. Lots of practice. Lots of screw ups.

Honestly, what I did was just do track day after track day, and in "safe" turns with no one around me, I would purposely induce oversteer, either by being too heavy on the throttle in mid turn, and then correct it.

Making friends with other drivers better than you. Talking with them about various situations, etc.

Best advice on this thread so far.

The F8X is a great car to hoon around a track while on those "safe" corners. Every track has at least a couple of these.

Ride along with those really good drivers every chance you get.

I'll add, take video of yourself on track that shows your hands (like redpriest does). Be your own toughest critic.

[MyFragileHalogen]

I jumped into a Miata this season and got all the answers I had been seeking in just a couple track days. It sort of made one whole year of my track experience in M4 almost wasteful in terms of learning. And it's a blast when I get back behind the wheel of the M4.

Beginners may wonder why track instructors tell you nothing but smoothness. Yes, the main trick is SMOOTHNESS. Once you get down acceptable smoothness you can play with rotation with brake and throttle. Correction just comes naturally as you feel the car rotates more than you would like to. It requires quick steering response and weight management(throttle) when you trigger a drifting.

I figured M4 was not the best car for beginners to start with, even with DSC OFF (I tried), as one can only get rotation with braking. Steering is numb with throttle manipulation alone as car is set-up that way from factory.