First time going on a track - any advice?

[stormlv]

Hey guys,

As the thread name says, I just booked a short track session next week and it's going to be my first time on a track.

Any advice on what to do in preparation?
What are the modes you usually use?
Any general comments?

Thanks!

[iamwingman]

3 or 4 cocktails.

[CanAutM3]

in the track section, there are already many threads on the exact same topic.

[stormlv]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

in the track section, there are already many threads on the exact same topic.

Uups, sorry, completely missed the track section ...

[DBACE]

Be smooth and listen to the advice you get from more seasoned participants. It's very easy to go off course if you're not paying attention or trying to be the fastest out there without knowing how to go fast. Good luck and don't fuck it up.

[ssuene93]

If it is your frist tracking experience or first time on this track, it is recommended you have an instructor riding with you on the track. You will learn a lot from the instructor about the proper line, braking point, turning point, apex, exiting out, and acceleration and steering. But the most important is dont stress out and enjoy the track. Have fun!!

[Professor///M]

Originally Posted by stormlv

Hey guys,

As the thread name says, I just booked a short track session next week and it's going to be my first time on a track.

Any advice on what to do in preparation?
What are the modes you usually use?
Any general comments?

Thanks!

Drive someone else's car.


Is this first time on a track or first time with your car on a track?

Preparation - driving/seating position - this may be a lot different than your comfortable routine driving position. Elbows should be flexed, and steering wheel probably closer to your body than you would think. You should be able to go >180º steering with your hands still in position at 9 & 3. You shouldn't have to straighten out your leg to depress the brake fully.

Eyes - look where you want the car to go, look ahead and map out where you're going to put your car. Look past corners to see where you want your car to be so you can visualize the line.

Speed - You shouldn't expect much of this on your first time. Brake much earlier than you'd think going into corners. You can always brake later the next lap around

Settings - Sport +, Sport, Comfort or sport, I'd probably keep MDM on the first time around. Some argue to never ride with nannys on, but if this is your first time, you probably should until you get even the course down. If you are smooth, the nannys won't turn on. If you see the car interfering, you know you're being too aggressive on the throttle, or on steering - so if you make it around without intervention that should indicate to you that you're smooth enough to turn DSC off.

General comment - I echo the instructor comment. From the number of times I've been on the track, the one thing I haven't had is an instructor in the seat next to me to help me with the driving lines. That's my biggest limitation to date. You can develop entry speed, exit speed any way that you pull a corner, but the only way to get around a track fast is to stick to the line, hit the apices, and go smooth.



Slow and smooth, that's the best advice I could give. Speed will come with time. Now go out and buy some new tires.

[stormlv]

Originally Posted by JSTDR1V

Drive someone else's car.


Is this first time on a track or first time with your car on a track?

Preparation - driving/seating position - this may be a lot different than your comfortable routine driving position. Elbows should be flexed, and steering wheel probably closer to your body than you would think. You should be able to go >180º steering with your hands still in position at 9 & 3. You shouldn't have to straighten out your leg to depress the brake fully.

Eyes - look where you want the car to go, look ahead and map out where you're going to put your car. Look past corners to see where you want your car to be so you can visualize the line.

Speed - You shouldn't expect much of this on your first time. Brake much earlier than you'd think going into corners. You can always brake later the next lap around

Settings - Sport +, Sport, Comfort or sport, I'd probably keep MDM on the first time around. Some argue to never ride with nannys on, but if this is your first time, you probably should until you get even the course down. If you are smooth, the nannys won't turn on. If you see the car interfering, you know you're being too aggressive on the throttle, or on steering - so if you make it around without intervention that should indicate to you that you're smooth enough to turn DSC off.

General comment - I echo the instructor comment. From the number of times I've been on the track, the one thing I haven't had is an instructor in the seat next to me to help me with the driving lines. That's my biggest limitation to date. You can develop entry speed, exit speed any way that you pull a corner, but the only way to get around a track fast is to stick to the line, hit the apices, and go smooth.



Slow and smooth, that's the best advice I could give. Speed will come with time. Now go out and buy some new tires.

Thanks for the comments!

It's going to be my first time on the track. Yes.

I'm going to go with my car... I wanted to first attend a training course as I got the M driver's package which should come with a free day of the M performance training course, but I have yet to receive an invitation from BMW.

I chose a track with a pretty wide run off area (Circuit de Bresse), so hopefully it should be a bit safer than others.

Regarding the driving position, I think I'm already seated quite ok, but I'll recheck.

As for the driving modes, initially I was thinking of just using MDM, but after reading a bit on this sub-forum, I saw a lot of people say that it just makes you have bad driving habits.

Still, I think it's a good idea to do one or two laps with MDM on just see the circuit and get a feel of the car and my application of throttle.

Speaking of which, regarding throttle maps. I find it pretty hard to be smooth in Sport+ and after reading about liftoff oversteer (and its dangers), I was wondering if Comfort wasn't the way to go.
But then I found a thread which polled people, and most of the answers were Sport+. I think CanAutM3 even commented that by sticking to Sport+ you also get the benefits of anti-lag system.

I'm really curious how it's going to be

Anyway, in the end I've had to reschedule the track session to the first week of September. The whether was quite shitty and rain was announced that day and for a first time, I thought it would have been too hardcore.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by stormlv

Thanks for the comments!

It's going to be my first time on the track. Yes.

I'm going to go with my car... I wanted to first attend a training course as I got the M driver's package which should come with a free day of the M performance training course, but I have yet to receive an invitation from BMW.

I chose a track with a pretty wide run off area (Circuit de Bresse), so hopefully it should be a bit safer than others.

Regarding the driving position, I think I'm already seated quite ok, but I'll recheck.

As for the driving modes, initially I was thinking of just using MDM, but after reading a bit on this sub-forum, I saw a lot of people say that it just makes you have bad driving habits.

Still, I think it's a good idea to do one or two laps with MDM on just see the circuit and get a feel of the car and my application of throttle.

Speaking of which, regarding throttle maps. I find it pretty hard to be smooth in Sport+ and after reading about liftoff oversteer (and its dangers), I was wondering if Comfort wasn't the way to go.
But then I found a thread which polled people, and most of the answers were Sport+. I think CanAutM3 even commented that by sticking to Sport+ you also get the benefits of anti-lag system.

I'm really curious how it's going to be

Anyway, in the end I've had to reschedule the track session to the first week of September. The whether was quite shitty and rain was announced that day and for a first time, I thought it would have been too hardcore.

Sport+ is the mode that has no artificial damping in throttle response. In Efficient and Sport, the engine load slightly lags throttle inputs, which I dislike. There is so much damping in Efficient, I find it actually makes the throttle less predictable.

I have no trouble driving in the snow with DSC off with the Engine in Sport+, where wheel spin is very easy and throttle inputs need to be very precise. I actually prefer Sport+ in those conditions because the car does exactly what I want when I want it. So if it works well in very slippery conditions, there is no reason it cannot work on a dry track. You just need to re-calibrate your foot movements. Further, most spins I've seen either in real life or on the forum don't emanate from too abrupt throttle input, but rather simply from too much throttle for too long with the steering wheel pinched.

I have posted this a few times before, but I will re-itterate it again. I found that the vast majority of students I've worked with that struggled with throttle smoothness was the result of improper foot placement on the throttle pedal. With pedals that are hinged at the bottom like we have on our cars, the heel needs to rest on the hinge with the entire foot laying flat on the pedal. When the heel rests away from the hinge with only the toes pressing on the pedal, a smaller foot movement induces more pedal movement, which makes it more difficult to be precise. Further, in such a position, the toes need to slip up and down the throttle pedal as it moves, and the friction between the pedal and the shoe sole can cause jerkiness. The farther the heel rests from the hinge, the worse this is.

[stormlv]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Sport+ is the mode that has no artificial damping in throttle response. In Efficient and Sport, the engine loads slightly lags throttle inputs, which I dislike. There is so much damping in Efficient, I find it actually makes the throttle less predictable.

I have no trouble driving in the snow with DSC off with the Engine in Sport+, where wheel spin is very easy and throttle inputs need to be very precise. I actually prefer Sport+ in those conditions because the car does exactly what I want when I want it. So if it works well in very slippery conditions, there is no reason it cannot work on a dry track. You just need to re-calibrate your foot movements. Further, most spins I've seen either in real life or on the forum don't emanate from too abrupt throttle input, but rather simply from too much throttle for too long with the steering wheel pinched.

I have posted this a few times before, but I will re-itterate it again. I found that the vast majority of students I've worked with that struggled with throttle smoothness was the result of improper foot placement on the throttle pedal. With pedals that are hinged at the bottom like we have on our cars, the heel needs to rest on the hinge with the entire foot laying flat on the pedal. When the heel rests away from the hinge with only the toes pressing on the pedal, a smaller foot movement induces more pedal movement, which makes it more difficult to be precise. Further, in such a position, the toes need to slip up and down the throttle pedal as it moves, and the friction between the pedal and the shoe sole can cause jerkiness. The farther the heel rests from the hinge, the worse this is.

As always, your replies are awesome and full of information.

To be honest I never gave a second's thought of the correct placement of the foot on the accelerator.
Based on your input, I will actively identify and try to correct my foot placement!

[wakdady]

just leave all the nannies on. period. we have no idea what your "idea" of a proper line is. Last thing anyone wants is for you to run out there and bin the damn thing.

so yeah, leave everything on. drive with an instructor, learn the line and work on inputs, smoothness, and most importantly, AWARENESS.

everything, literally everything else will fall into place over time.

[BJJfrog]

Originally Posted by wakdady

just leave all the nannies on. period. we have no idea what your "idea" of a proper line is. Last thing anyone wants is for you to run out there and bin the damn thing.

so yeah, leave everything on. drive with an instructor, learn the line and work on inputs, smoothness, and most importantly, AWARENESS.

everything, literally everything else will fall into place over time.

I second this. Disagree strongly with the recommendations to turn off traction control or even use MDM to start with. If stormlv was used to performance driving I doubt he would have asked this question.

Learn the course, learn racing lines, learn to be smooth. You'll know if you're not smooth if you see TC lighting up on the dash. If TC lights up too much... well, update your ECU software. Once you're confident, try MDM mode. I don't think you should turn off DSC if your first time on the track is in a 317kW M3. Different if it was an MX5.

Slow in, fast out. Especially if you're worried about lift-off oversteer. Learn what the car feels like.

Your first lap each session will be on cold tyres, so take it easy. Once you've got some heat into them you can push a bit more. You'll learn the feeling. I assume you've got good tyres as it sounds like your car is new.

If the track doesn't have a pump or petrol station close by, maybe bring some extra fuel.

Look after the car. Take the last lap easy to let your brakes cool down. Leave it running for a while to cool down after each session, and don't put the handbrake on - it can warp your discs if applied when they're hot.

[BJJfrog]

Other comments: Watch some youtube tutorials on racing lines, braking, trail braking.

[CanAutM3]

I also support what others are saying about keeping the nannies ON for your first time on track. You'll have your hands full just learning the track, the line and being smooth with your inputs. Might as well keep a safety net. I would recommend MDM though, full DSC is just too much and you need to do something quite stupid to get in trouble with MDM.

If you do get hooked (which you likely will ), then eventually going DSC Off after 3~5 events (once you are comfortable driving the proper line and start have a reasonable pace) is an option if you do want to learn proper car control. But you need to be fully conscious of the additional risks and potential consequences. If the intention is to eventually go with DSC off, doing so relatively early in the learning process is much safer than doing it later IMHO.

[stormlv]

wakdady BJJfrog CanAutM3 Thank you for the suggestions.

I'll take it easy first few laps and will remain in MDM mode for now until get more experience then.

As I said, I pushed the track date to the 8th of September, so I'll have a bit more time to learn till then.

[wakdady]

I tend to agree with Can that driving with the dsc off is the way to go, after all, the older you are you didnt grow up with TC anyway.
i think it makes you a better driver.

My only reservation is that i've been in the car with drivers at events and that DSC light is flashing like it's the second coming of Jesus. if it wasn't for that they wouldn't crashed their precious car in turn 1. after seeing bad things happen on and off track, i tend to be a little more conservative when dispensing advice.

[wakdady]

Originally Posted by stormlv

wakdady BJJfrog CanAutM3 Thank you for the suggestions.

I'll take it easy first few laps and will remain in MDM mode for now until get more experience then.

As I said, I pushed the track date to the 8th of September, so I'll have a bit more time to learn till then.

more time? go to a gokart track and get sideways.
which track are you going to?

[stormlv]

Originally Posted by wakdady

more time? go to a gokart track and get sideways.
which track are you going to?

More time to do "research".
The track is called "Circuit de Bresse"