Would you say getting an M car is a downgrade from a Porsche?

[RaidersFan]

It depends on what you prefer. I have owned a 991 C2S in the past, and currently own a 997.2 C2S manual. My Fiance drives an M4 manual, and we had an e92 M3 in the past.

991 is by far the faster car. Buttoned down; it can do no wrong in corners. The M4 crazy-man hair on fire torque kicking in really bugs me, it is hard to get used to, although she likes it. The 997.2 is my favorite car: it revs really well, is every bit as quick as the M4, builds power very linearly, handles light on it's feet, just a bit more on the edge than everything else, and is just plain small sports car fun. The E92 M3 is by far the best bargain of the group, and we are seriously considering dumping the M4 and going back to that platform. It was a great driver's car too, and has a bit more analog feel, like the 997 platform does. Also, the NA engine, although slow, is just plain fun to drive.

From a pure performance perspective, it isn't a debate. The old 997.2 C2S is just as fast as a modern M4 at the track. 991, or 991.2 is going to blow any M product out of the water. Power to weight is superior, and Porsche measures power at the wheels, not the crank. So, that 420HP 991.2 C2S is making a lot more power than an M4 CS. It also weighs 400lbs less, and gets traction earlier exiting a turn with the weight distribution being what it is. 7:24 on the ring for the 991.2 GTS is an insane time for a daily driver; the GTS doesn't have any track prep.

As others have surely said, the balancing equation is the practicality of the M product. I could put 2 bicycles and sets of wheels in the E92 with the seats folded, along with luggage for 2 people for a week. I need a rack to put much of anything in a 911. As we are both cyclists who race at the elite level, bikes pretty much go with us on any vacation. It means the M products get driven more often. But if I were just driving the car, and not using it for transporting stuff/people, it's 911 all the way. And don't even get me started on Boxster/Cayman handling: cars don't really get any better than that.

[996ttelise]

Originally Posted by RaidersFan

It depends on what you prefer. I have owned a 991 C2S in the past, and currently own a 997.2 C2S manual. My Fiance drives an M4 manual, and we had an e92 M3 in the past.

991 is by far the faster car. Buttoned down; it can do no wrong in corners. The M4 crazy-man hair on fire torque kicking in really bugs me, it is hard to get used to, although she likes it. The 997.2 is my favorite car: it revs really well, is every bit as quick as the M4, builds power very linearly, handles light on it's feet, just a bit more on the edge than everything else, and is just plain small sports car fun. The E92 M3 is by far the best bargain of the group, and we are seriously considering dumping the M4 and going back to that platform. It was a great driver's car too, and has a bit more analog feel, like the 997 platform does. Also, the NA engine, although slow, is just plain fun to drive.

From a pure performance perspective, it isn't a debate. The old 997.2 C2S is just as fast as a modern M4 at the track. 991, or 991.2 is going to blow any M product out of the water. Power to weight is superior, and Porsche measures power at the wheels, not the crank. So, that 420HP 991.2 C2S is making a lot more power than an M4 CS. It also weighs 400lbs less, and gets traction earlier exiting a turn with the weight distribution being what it is. 7:24 on the ring for the 991.2 GTS is an insane time for a daily driver; the GTS doesn't have any track prep.

As others have surely said, the balancing equation is the practicality of the M product. I could put 2 bicycles and sets of wheels in the E92 with the seats folded, along with luggage for 2 people for a week. I need a rack to put much of anything in a 911. As we are both cyclists who race at the elite level, bikes pretty much go with us on any vacation. It means the M products get driven more often. But if I were just driving the car, and not using it for transporting stuff/people, it's 911 all the way. And don't even get me started on Boxster/Cayman handling: cars don't really get any better than that.

I drove the 997.2 today with the top down as it is perfect weather and I too love how it drives. It's a 7 year old car and I still like driving it better than my 2017 F80 ZCP. I get just as much enjoyment out of it as I did my 991GT3 I got rid of a couple of months ago after two years of ownership. It's speaks volumes how something like this gets so much traction here, but post same thing in a 911 forum and it would be eh, whatever . . . and then silently roll off the page.

[saeyedoc]

First off the original poster never said anything about value, just if it was a downgrade. Sure, the M is a better value, but that's not what was asked.
Also, no one was comparing a Panamera to an M3 or 4. The comments were just about the overall quality and some comparison to a 7 series.

[REDEV217342]

Originally Posted by saeyedoc

First off the original poster never said anything about value, just if it was a downgrade. Sure, the M is a better value, but that's not what was asked.
Also, no one was comparing a Panamera to an M3 or 4. The comments were just about the overall quality and some comparison to a 7 series.

The question -- "is an M car a downgrade from a Porsche". The question is way too damn vague. An M6 sure as hell is no downgrade to many Porsche variants. An M3/M4 sure as hell is no downgrade to some Porsche variants.

So the term "downgrade" automatically means "quality"? Not in my mind it doesn't.

The term downgrade means many things to many people.

[Powerslide]

Originally Posted by saeyedoc

First off the original poster never said anything about value, just if it was a downgrade. Sure, the M is a better value, but that's not what was asked.
Also, no one was comparing a Panamera to an M3 or 4. The comments were just about the overall quality and some comparison to a 7 series.

Once again, my comments were directed specifically to Motorsportsporschefanboytrollenterprise's posts not only in this thread (including post no. 101 above), but in the 10 million other threads on this forum where he gives constant unsolicited Porsche comparisons to everything...(see post no. 105 above for one of the innumerable examples of other people on this forum aside from myself who are also tired of his completely obnoxious antics).

[Speed District]

A base Carrara is comparable to a M4 I guess but anything beyond that is in another league. I have a GT3 and have experience with the GTS. Not comparable to the Ms. Wayyyyyyy better cars in every category.

My GT3 is as comfortable and daily driveable as my M4

[No Boost]

Originally Posted by Powerslide

Once again, my comments were directed specifically to Motorsportsporschefanboytrollenterprise's posts not only in this thread (including post no. 101 above), but in the 10 million other threads on this forum where he gives constant unsolicited Porsche comparisons to everything...(see post no. 105 above for one of the innumerable examples of other people on this forum aside from myself who are also tired of his completely obnoxious antics).

Political/religion subforum: how does the United States defeat ISIS and Kim jong un simultaneously? Answer: [insert random Porsche superiority factor here]

[No Boost]

Originally Posted by Speed District

My GT3 is as comfortable and daily driveable as my M4

Those of us who experience winter weather beg the question: could it be DD in snow with winter rubber? How's the ground clearance? Or should I relocate and do a 180 with my life just to have the ability to DD a GT3.2 with MT (no sarcasm)? Priorities, right?

[Powerslide]

Originally Posted by Stage IV

Political/religion subforum: how does the United States defeat ISIS and Kim jong un simultaneously? Answer: [insert random Porsche superiority factor here]

Exactly....

[REDEV217342]

Originally Posted by Speed District

A base Carrara is comparable to a M4 I guess but anything beyond that is in another league. I have a GT3 and have experience with the GTS. Not comparable to the Ms. Wayyyyyyy better cars in every category.

My GT3 is as comfortable and daily driveable as my M4

You are certainly in the minority if you are being serious about DD'ing a GT3 . I've owned 3 GT level Porsches (and a 987S and 981S) and my former E92M3's and F82M4 were 10x better daily drivers than any of the Porsche's I've owned (noise, size, ground clearance and lack of utility kill it as a DD for me....and most others)

Just curious, why do you own an M4 if your GT3 could be daily driveable? If the answer is to save mileage or wear/tear on the GT3, I can accept that. Congrats on being able to own both.

For a fun weekend car.....between an M car or a 911S/981S, the 911S/981S would be the ideal choice from a pure driving standpoint. As a DD, I'll take the M all day, every day.

For me, personally, I'd opt for a GT350 as a weekend/track car. Love the styling and sound.....not to mention the $$$$ savings. Don't give two shits about the badge on the hood.

[Mike991M4]

Originally Posted by REDEV217342

Just curious, why do you own an M4 if your GT3 could be daily driveable? If the answer is to save mileage or wear/tear on the GT3, I can accept that. Congrats on being able to own both.

Not a GT3 but a 991 C2S. I own both because I like to drive the Porsche to work when its not rush hour (manual) and the M4 to work when I go in during rush hour (DCT).

[REDEV217342]

Originally Posted by Mike991M4

Not a GT3 but a 991 C2S. I own both because I like to drive the Porsche to work when its not rush hour (manual) and the M4 to work when I go in during rush hour (DCT).

I drove my Porsche's to work on Fridays but would never think of driving it every day. If you couldn't own both, would you only own the 991 and drive it everyday?

[Nikolas]

There is no way a GT3 would be comparable as a DD to an M3/4. Yes you could do it, but it is far stiffer, lower, gets far worse gas mileage and far greater parking space anxiety.

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by Nikolas

There is no way a GT3 would be comparable as a DD to an M3/4. Yes you could do it, but it is far stiffer, lower, gets far worse gas mileage and far greater parking space anxiety.

The parking space anxiety almost makes it not worth it at all... Almost haha

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Nikolas

There is no way a GT3 would be comparable as a DD to an M3/4. Yes you could do it, but it is far stiffer, lower, gets far worse gas mileage and far greater parking space anxiety.

OP lives 5 miles from work?

[Mike991M4]

Originally Posted by REDEV217342

I drove my Porsche's to work on Fridays but would never think of driving it every day. If you couldn't own both, would you only own the 991 and drive it everyday?

before the manual '13, I had a PDK '12. I only had one and it was my daily driver. Got rid of it because the seats were uncomfortable after 20 minutes.

The thing is though, the PDK to me, felt like just a normal daily driver. Kind of boring. The manual is much more fun, and I actually have been dailying it for the last 2 months, but thats another story.

[RIP1981]

A regular 991 is in fact a good dd.

I don't see many disadvantages compared to an M3/M4 apart from space.

Ride height isn't lower, I'd even say front is a bit higher and less prone to hitting the ground. Suspension with PASM is even more comfortable. The 991 is also a bit easier to park as it is a bit shorter and not as wide as the M3/M4.

A GT3 however is a bit harsh and low and loud for dd. Depends on your suffering capability. Someone tuning the suspension of an M3/M4, making it even lower and louder can certainly also live with a stock GT3

[saeyedoc]

Originally Posted by Mike991M4

before the manual '13, I had a PDK '12. I only had one and it was my daily driver. Got rid of it because the seats were uncomfortable after 20 minutes.

.

Which seats did you have? Mine has the adaptive sport seats and I find them extremely comfortable.

[Mike991M4]

Originally Posted by saeyedoc

Which seats did you have? Mine has the adaptive sport seats and I find them extremely comfortable.

I had the base 4 way. My new one has the sport plus 4 way. My issue was short torso, wide back. the seat frames were the exact width of my shoulder blades where they contacted the seat. the + with the wings on the seat solved that issue

[PoorLurker]

M4 would be a downgrade in terms of prestige.

However, the M4 could be a better car than the 911 for the right person.

Source: There are people who buy cars based on how big the cup holders are.

[Wills2]

Originally Posted by RaidersFan

It depends on what you prefer. I have owned a 991 C2S in the past, and currently own a 997.2 C2S manual. My Fiance drives an M4 manual, and we had an e92 M3 in the past.

991 is by far the faster car. Buttoned down; it can do no wrong in corners. The M4 crazy-man hair on fire torque kicking in really bugs me, it is hard to get used to, although she likes it. The 997.2 is my favorite car: it revs really well, is every bit as quick as the M4, builds power very linearly, handles light on it's feet, just a bit more on the edge than everything else, and is just plain small sports car fun. The E92 M3 is by far the best bargain of the group, and we are seriously considering dumping the M4 and going back to that platform. It was a great driver's car too, and has a bit more analog feel, like the 997 platform does. Also, the NA engine, although slow, is just plain fun to drive.

From a pure performance perspective, it isn't a debate. The old 997.2 C2S is just as fast as a modern M4 at the track. 991, or 991.2 is going to blow any M product out of the water. Power to weight is superior, and Porsche measures power at the wheels, not the crank. So, that 420HP 991.2 C2S is making a lot more power than an M4 CS. It also weighs 400lbs less, and gets traction earlier exiting a turn with the weight distribution being what it is. 7:24 on the ring for the 991.2 GTS is an insane time for a daily driver; the GTS doesn't have any track prep.

I ran a 997.2 C2S for 3 years and 50,000 miles a superb car but it's not as fast as my F80 M3 and the 9A1 engine felt asthmatic after my S65 in the e92 M3 and my old F10 M5 would leave the Porsche for dead from 80mph.

Porsche measure power at the crank like every other manufacturer what are you on about?

The 991 is very impressive (I would love one) driven the GTS and C4S and C2S on the track and they are great cars and the new turbo GTS is quicker than the M3/4 and so it should be for another 40k.

A manual 991.2 C2S weighs 1525KG EU the manual M4 CP weighs 1590KG EU that's 65KG or in old money 143lb not the 400lb you quote and they are both rated at 450hp at the crank.

I love Porsches but there is a quite a lot of uninformed drivel in your post.

[Carl L]

Having gone back and forth between the two from 2000-2005, I moved from P to M ten years ago and haven't looked back. In an ideal world I'd have a new GT3 for weekends but until we move to our new home there's no way I'd get one up our driveway in the hills.

So to answer your question, no an M3 is not a downgrade from a new 911 unless a) you're looking for a pure sportscar as they both offer different things or b) you care how rich others perceive you to be.