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      01-02-2017, 03:58 PM   #1
robertg
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Blackstone Lab Oil Analysis

Now that the new F80/F82/F82 S55 have been out for a few years, I am wondering what owners out there are performing an oil analysis from Blackstone Labs?

I bring this up because I had a E92 08 335I with the N54 twin turbo before my F80 M3 and had rod bearing issues starting at 74,000 miles (spun bearing on cylinders 5 and 6). I performed oil changes every 7,500 with BMW store brought oil. Back then BMW recommended oil changes every 15,000 so I halved it this the 7,500 and this had issues. The car was a daily driver and never tracked.

Also I know that the previous E92 M's with the S65 engine had issues with rod bearing primarily due to the tight tolerances and the use of 10w-60 oil.

It would be nice if we can start a thread with owners posting that oil analysis report... I just sent mine in, 27,500 miles (oil changes roughly every 5k miles) delivery date Aug 2014.

Thoughts?

Last edited by robertg; 01-02-2017 at 04:03 PM.. Reason: more content
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      01-02-2017, 05:00 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertg View Post
Now that the new F80/F82/F82 S55 have been out for a few years, I am wondering what owners out there are performing an oil analysis from Blackstone Labs?

I bring this up because I had a E92 08 335I with the N54 twin turbo before my F80 M3 and had rod bearing issues starting at 74,000 miles (spun bearing on cylinders 5 and 6). I performed oil changes every 7,500 with BMW store brought oil. Back then BMW recommended oil changes every 15,000 so I halved it this the 7,500 and this had issues. The car was a daily driver and never tracked.

Also I know that the previous E92 M's with the S65 engine had issues with rod bearing primarily due to the tight tolerances and the use of 10w-60 oil.

It would be nice if we can start a thread with owners posting that oil analysis report... I just sent mine in, 27,500 miles (oil changes roughly every 5k miles) delivery date Aug 2014.

Thoughts?
I'd personally love a thread that contained a bunch of UOA..

I've seen only two UOA of the new twin power oil, one of the 0w30 and one of the 5w30. What I can tell you from those two (you'd have to search they are on here somewhere.. ) is that the TBN for both were good for 5k drain intervals. I'd choose the 5w30 over the 0w30 because from what I recall, the 0w30 viscosity was near a 20w after 5k miles, whereas the 5w30 seemed like thicker 30w oil even after 5k miles. Judging from these two results, I ended up buying 7 liters from ecs tuning of the 0w40 twin power turbo. I'll likely do a UOA of that, but not for awhile since I drive 4k per year. .. Mostly want to see the TBN and viscosity levels to be honest.
Only problem is the sample size is so small that these results are basically just for some data, and nothing else.

I was never a fan of the old BMW 5w30 pre-twinpowerturbo formulation, I'd much rather go GC 0w30 or M1 0w40. However, with the new twin power turbo oil being GTL (Gas to liquid)and having a lower NOACK, I choose to stick with it in hopes it'll keep my intake valves cleaner.


YMMV..

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      01-04-2017, 07:50 PM   #3
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I'm planning on changing my oil within the next few days. My '16 M4 Coupe currently has 7550 miles on it with 7 track days. I wanted to change at 6200 miles but the holidays got in the way. I'm planning on having it changed by the dealer at ~10,000 miles and every 5,000 miles after that, or yearly, whichever comes first!

I'll definitely be sending a sample to Blackstone and I'll post the results here. I've been sending samples of both my '06 Z4 M Roadster (~50,000 miles) and my wife's '11 335is Coupe (~60,000 miles) to Blackstone with no bad reports so far. The S54 engine in the Z4 M Roadster, like in the E46 M3, has known problems with the rod bearings, so I'm definitely watching that one.

BTW, I'm going to use the "M TwinPower Turbo" 0W-40 oil, which I got from ECS Tuning, for my oil change.
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      01-05-2017, 08:04 PM   #4
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FYI... UOA's are notoriously unreliable on low mileage engines. Also the single pass UOA on various oil brands isn't worth the paper it's printed on.
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      04-02-2017, 08:41 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD ///M4 View Post
I'm planning on changing my oil within the next few days. My '16 M4 Coupe currently has 7550 miles on it with 7 track days. I wanted to change at 6200 miles but the holidays got in the way. I'm planning on having it changed by the dealer at ~10,000 miles and every 5,000 miles after that, or yearly, whichever comes first!

I'll definitely be sending a sample to Blackstone and I'll post the results here. I've been sending samples of both my '06 Z4 M Roadster (~50,000 miles) and my wife's '11 335is Coupe (~60,000 miles) to Blackstone with no bad reports so far. The S54 engine in the Z4 M Roadster, like in the E46 M3, has known problems with the rod bearings, so I'm definitely watching that one.

BTW, I'm going to use the "M TwinPower Turbo" 0W-40 oil, which I got from ECS Tuning, for my oil change.
did you get around to posting? interested in your results
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      04-03-2017, 02:36 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teefive View Post
did you get around to posting? interested in your results
Thanks for the reminder!

I changed my oil as an interim oil change at 7,585 miles in January. Here's the report from Blackstone:
Comments:
This is a nice first report for your M4. We often see excess metal and silicon left from the wear-in process in engines as new as this one, but high-end German cars often look great right from the beginning and that's what we have here. Universal averages show typical wear levels for BMW's S55 engine after about 4,900 miles on the oil. Your sample compares nicely with that benchmark. No excess fuel or harmful coolant is present and air and oil filtration look great (see silicon and insolubles). You'll probably find wear drops next time, even with the racing.
By "racing" he means the track days at Nurburgring, Circuit Park Zandvoort, and Spa Francorchamps during our Euro Delivery, and 2-day HPDEs at Laguna Seca and Buttonwillow in August and October after redelivery. I changed the oil in January before more 2-day HPDEs at Buttonwillow in February and Laguna Seca in March. I took my car in for the 10,000 mi. service last month but didn't have the tech collect a sample. I'll do another sample when I do another interim oil change at 15,000 miles, but it doesn't look like any more track days before that.
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File Type: pdf Blackstone M4 7585 miles_edited.pdf (108.0 KB, 448 views)
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Last edited by SD ///M4; 04-03-2017 at 09:35 PM..
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      04-05-2017, 08:01 AM   #7
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Let me share how UOAs go in terms of "diagnosing wear"

Everything looks great for many, many UOAs with very low trends.

Then suddenly you get a spike. Maybe in iron. Maybe in lead. Maybe in copper. And internet experts will advise you on whether or not it looks like bearing material bleeding off into the oil.

You freak out. But your car is running great. So you either sit on it or do a preemptive bearing replacement and the bearings look fine. But you feel better at night. And you weigh less, which is nice - a few grand lighter.

Or maybe you freak out and sit on it and the bearings begin some light knocking, at which time you choose to replace them. But it wasn't until the knocking - an actual symptom - emerged that you knew to do that.

....

This is the story of UOAs for diagnosis of wearing engine parts. They are completely useless as a diagnostic tool. Metal parts with lubrication related issues do one of two things:

1. Something happens where wear accelerates suddenly and emerges as a sound or symptom (i.e. rod knock on bearings, cam noise, excessive oil loss if rings are wearing, etc.) and it's not too hard to diagnose and fix before the engine fails. This can show up on a UOA but by the time it's confirmed as to WHAT is causing the metal spikes in the oil, you know it by the symptom.

2. A metal part fails catastrophically and with no warning, and it wouldn't have shown up in the UOA anyway.

I have been following UOAs for well over a decade and did >20 myself on several cars and learned these truths at the end. I can count on one or two fingers how many times I EVER saw a UOA show a trend that was correctly diagnosed, and fixed, before a clear symptom emerged and was only identified via UOA. Maybe 0 fingers
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      04-05-2017, 08:19 AM   #8
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Is the report encouraging us to change oil at around 4,900 miles?

Regardless of what BMW states concerning oil changes, what intervals do you guys suggest we follow for the S55?
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      04-05-2017, 06:21 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD ///M4 View Post
Thanks for the reminder!

I changed my oil as an interim oil change at 7,585 miles in January. Here's the report from Blackstone:
Comments:
This is a nice first report for your M4. We often see excess metal and silicon left from the wear-in process in engines as new as this one, but high-end German cars often look great right from the beginning and that's what we have here. Universal averages show typical wear levels for BMW's S55 engine after about 4,900 miles on the oil. Your sample compares nicely with that benchmark. No excess fuel or harmful coolant is present and air and oil filtration look great (see silicon and insolubles). You'll probably find wear drops next time, even with the racing.
By "racing" he means the track days at Nurburgring, Circuit Park Zandvoort, and Spa Francorchamps during our Euro Delivery, and 2-day HPDEs at Laguna Seca and Buttonwillow in August and October after redelivery. I changed the oil in January before more 2-day HPDEs at Buttonwillow in February and Laguna Seca in March. I took my car in for the 10,000 mi. service last month but didn't have the tech collect a sample. I'll do another sample when I do another interim oil change at 15,000 miles, but it doesn't look like any more track days before that.
Thank you for sharing! Quick question, based on the viscosity numbers, i'm guessing this is 0w30 or 5w30?
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      04-05-2017, 07:24 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swifty View Post
Is the report encouraging us to change oil at around 4,900 miles?

Regardless of what BMW states concerning oil changes, what intervals do you guys suggest we follow for the S55?
No it is just saying that 4,900 is the average oil life they have seen in their tests.

I always cut the oil change interval in half, so every 5k Miles on the M3.
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      04-06-2017, 09:38 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
No it is just saying that 4,900 is the average oil life they have seen in their tests.

I always cut the oil change interval in half, so every 5k Miles on the M3.
That's exactly what I did with the e92.
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      04-09-2017, 06:16 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesGames View Post
Thank you for sharing! Quick question, based on the viscosity numbers, i'm guessing this is 0w30 or 5w30?
Prior to my interim oil change, the 1200 mi. break-in service was done in Germany during Euro Delivery and the service order indicates "BMW Engine Oil LL04 0W-30".
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      05-04-2017, 06:41 PM   #13
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0W-40 ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesGames View Post
I'd personally love a thread that contained a bunch of UOA..

I've seen only two UOA of the new twin power oil, one of the 0w30 and one of the 5w30. What I can tell you from those two (you'd have to search they are on here somewhere.. ) is that the TBN for both were good for 5k drain intervals. I'd choose the 5w30 over the 0w30 because from what I recall, the 0w30 viscosity was near a 20w after 5k miles, whereas the 5w30 seemed like thicker 30w oil even after 5k miles. Judging from these two results, I ended up buying 7 liters from ecs tuning of the 0w40 twin power turbo. I'll likely do a UOA of that, but not for awhile since I drive 4k per year. .. Mostly want to see the TBN and viscosity levels to be honest.
Only problem is the sample size is so small that these results are basically just for some data, and nothing else.

I was never a fan of the old BMW 5w30 pre-twinpowerturbo formulation, I'd much rather go GC 0w30 or M1 0w40. However, with the new twin power turbo oil being GTL (Gas to liquid)and having a lower NOACK, I choose to stick with it in hopes it'll keep my intake valves cleaner.


YMMV..

OK -- You like the 0W-40 GTL and state that the lower NOACK is a key reason for selecting. Well - most 0W-40 oils have a higher NOACK than their say 5W-40 counterparts. The same PP Euro 5W-40 has a NOACK of 6.2% while the 0W-40 is higher (est. at 9%) from what I have read. So unless you live in a cold climate I think the 5W-40 trumps 0W-40.
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      05-05-2017, 06:44 PM   #14
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I just got analysis back. Oil changed at 58,000 miles.
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      05-08-2017, 01:36 PM   #15
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I had my break-in done right at 1200, closing in on 10k miles now on my 17' M3 Comp. Would it be a good a idea to send in the oil they take out at my 10k change?
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      05-12-2017, 05:19 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodengun
I just got analysis back. Oil changed at 58,000 miles.
Looks great!

People should note that with 58k miles this engine has settled in and there's absolutely nothing wrong with the oil at his interval.
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      03-19-2018, 10:00 PM   #17
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2015 BMW M3  [0.00]
40k miles currently. Have just been doing recommended 10k intervals.

Just wanted to post this up in case anyone is interested.
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      03-19-2018, 10:23 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeFromPA View Post
Let me share how UOAs go in terms of "diagnosing wear"

Everything looks great for many, many UOAs with very low trends.

Then suddenly you get a spike. Maybe in iron. Maybe in lead. Maybe in copper. And internet experts will advise you on whether or not it looks like bearing material bleeding off into the oil.

You freak out. But your car is running great. So you either sit on it or do a preemptive bearing replacement and the bearings look fine. But you feel better at night. And you weigh less, which is nice - a few grand lighter.

Or maybe you freak out and sit on it and the bearings begin some light knocking, at which time you choose to replace them. But it wasn't until the knocking - an actual symptom - emerged that you knew to do that.

....

This is the story of UOAs for diagnosis of wearing engine parts. They are completely useless as a diagnostic tool. Metal parts with lubrication related issues do one of two things:

1. Something happens where wear accelerates suddenly and emerges as a sound or symptom (i.e. rod knock on bearings, cam noise, excessive oil loss if rings are wearing, etc.) and it's not too hard to diagnose and fix before the engine fails. This can show up on a UOA but by the time it's confirmed as to WHAT is causing the metal spikes in the oil, you know it by the symptom.

2. A metal part fails catastrophically and with no warning, and it wouldn't have shown up in the UOA anyway.

I have been following UOAs for well over a decade and did >20 myself on several cars and learned these truths at the end. I can count on one or two fingers how many times I EVER saw a UOA show a trend that was correctly diagnosed, and fixed, before a clear symptom emerged and was only identified via UOA. Maybe 0 fingers
You are completely correct. On my old car, (Evo X) I built a 2.4L stroker with forged everything and a dry sump oil system. The dry sump belt came off after a WOT pull and of course the motor lost oil pressure. I shut it down about 2 seconds after the belt came off and I thought I caught it in time.

I sent in an oil analysis on that same oil to see if the bearings showed any wear on the UOA. The UOA came back completely normal, yet a couple hundred miles later, before I sold the motor I pulled all the bearings just to make sure they were good and the bearings were trashed.
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      03-20-2018, 11:41 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chetrickerman View Post
You are completely correct. On my old car, (Evo X) I built a 2.4L stroker with forged everything and a dry sump oil system. The dry sump belt came off after a WOT pull and of course the motor lost oil pressure. I shut it down about 2 seconds after the belt came off and I thought I caught it in time.

I sent in an oil analysis on that same oil to see if the bearings showed any wear on the UOA. The UOA came back completely normal, yet a couple hundred miles later, before I sold the motor I pulled all the bearings just to make sure they were good and the bearings were trashed.
Thank you. I still read lots on UOAs and how they are useful. But we are well over a decade of pretty commonly conducted UOAs across tons of platforms. And you know what?

They are terrible at diagnosing problems outside of the following:

1. An issue causing excessive fuel accumulation in the oil (i.e. stuck injector) which will almost always show up via CEL on any OBDII system

2. An issue with air filtration whereby filtration isn't as good as it should be - which can be useful

3. Determining if you are driving your oil into sludge or if it can keep going

....

And you know who needs this? Not people who change their oil every 5k-10k miles on newer vehicles using synthetic oils.

Let me repeat this to the general public: A UOA will not be a reliable tool to diagnose metal-on-metal wear problems with your engine in a preventative fashion. It MAY diagnose fuel issues dumping fuel into your cylinder/oil, air filtration issues, or determining if your oil is worn out (extremely rare with synthetic oils run normal durations).

That's it - if you aren't looking to diagnose those things, skip the UOA.
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      04-10-2018, 12:53 PM   #20
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04/2015 Production S55 F80.
Oil analysis at 20,900 miles on the car.
Approx 3,900 miles and 3 track days on the oil.
BMW 0W-30

Will have another low mileage 2-4 track session report to run later this summer.
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      01-30-2019, 02:33 PM   #21
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04/2015 Production S55 F80.
Oil analysis at 24,400 miles on the car.
Approx 3,500 miles and 2 track days on the oil.
BMW 0W-30

My last UOA was done in March 2018 with 3,865 miles on the oil and 3 track days. Post #20 in this thread.
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      02-02-2019, 10:39 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RowanBuds View Post
04/2015 Production S55 F80.
Oil analysis at 24,400 miles on the car.
Approx 3,500 miles and 2 track days on the oil.
BMW 0W-30

My last UOA was done in March 2018 with 3,865 miles on the oil and 3 track days. Post #20 in this thread.
Thanks for sharing. Looks like it sheared down to a 25 weight only after 3500 hard miles?

I would probably run Pennzoil Euro 5w-40 for track duty. This confirmed my suspection that the 0W-30 runs on the thin side of a 30 weight as it is LL-01FE
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