Crashed on Nurburgring during tourist ride. BMW ED insurance HDI denies claim

[dongerkim]

Hello everyone,

After going back and forth on whether to post this or not, I decided to do so to help those who are considering driving on the Nordschleife/Nurburgring with their own vehicles during their ED. It’s been about 3 weeks now and still is an on going process. I am simply sharing my experience to help others and get some advice from fellow forum members. Excuse my spelling and grammar, English is not my mother tongue.

A little background of my trip. This is my 2nd F80 ED within two years. My first ED was an absolute first class experience from BMW. After my first trip, I couldn’t wait to come back to Germany, on German roads, in a German car. I decided to sell my 2016 F80 M3 last year to go on the ultimate 3 month European Delivery vacation in a EOP MY18 F80. Found my allocation from my previous dealer early this year and my delivery date in Munich was set in April. It is important to note that at the time of my MY16 ED trip, BMW’s ED insurance policy was Allianz. It is now HDI.


My first European Delivery on the Nordschleife accident free! Now that I remember, this was on a Nordschleife track day.


My second European delivery before the little incident

Fast forwarding to the Nurburgring. About 3 weeks ago, I got into an accident during the public tourist ride session, also known in German as touristenfahrten. I lost control of the vehicle and hit a barrier. No one else was involved, and it was a relatively minor accident. Although my car was drivable, I did the standard procedure which was pull over in a safe area, put on the bright yellow emergency vest from the BMW welt gift store, jump over the barrier then contact the marshals.

Front and rear passenger side bumpers have small ish scratches that went down to the primer, and both driver side wheels are scratched up pretty bad. The car will need a new alignment and that’s all I really know for now without a professional taking a closer look.




The most visible cosmetic damage on the driver side front bumper. The rear is much less visible


Both wheels look more or less like this. It was very hard to see the damage without a close up side angle.

The marshals came out incredibly quickly and sorted out the small details at the crash site. He deemed that my car was leak free/safe to drive and had asked me to follow him to the front office. The marshals assessed the damage and I was responsible for €1,700 for which I paid for on the spot.

So next, it’s time to call the Insurance company. I phone a number that I was given in my ED packet with the Insurance information. I explain to him exactly what happened, sent emails of the damages, etc etc. Just all the usual things you would need to explain to the Insurance, plus let’s not forget where it happened. There was a bit of confusion as he thought I would just drop off my car and get a rental to continue my trip as most ED trips are 14 days. I explained to him that I am half way into my 3 month trip and would like to get the car fixed and returned to me so i can continue my trip. He arranged for me to have my car dropped off the next day at a BMW Procar (I think it acts like a BMW dealership, but they also have a body shop).

So the next day I head to the BMW Procar with all my documentation, claim number etc. I hand over my keys and now I am waiting to get my rental. I was then told to wait while they talk to HDI, the insurance company before they give me the green light. After a lot of phone calls and couple of hours of waiting, I was given the bad news that HDI does not cover the Nurburgring. I asked for a number who I could contact at HDI to explain in more detail and maybe clear up some misunderstanding. They suggested me to take the car back to the US to fix as it likely cheaper there. They gave me an estimate of what it would cost to fix it at their garage and would be in the realm of €17,000. Ouch

I then give HDI a call and the person who picked up the call was very short and direct in saying that the Nurburgring is not covered. I didn’t even get a chance to explain it wasn’t the Nurburgring GP track, Private track day or under what circumstance the accident happened. The phone call was very short and felt like I wasn’t going to get very far with HDI directly.

I then reach out to BMW NA, european delivery department for help. They then asked me to email them more photos of the damages, explaining in detail what happened since the accident to dropping off the car and BMW Procar. BMW NA/ED tell me they will be in contact with HDI and will get back to me. Because of the time zone difference from EST and GMT+1 here in Germany, I would imagine that’s why things were very slow. I’ve also asked them for the full policy even if it’s in German.

During this time, I was assigned to one person from BMW NA to handle my case. She has been very polite and eager to help but didn’t have any new developments. At this point, about a week has passed since the accident and I’ve been anxiously following up with BMW NA constantly. I then get an email that includes the relevant part of the Insurance policy in German. Some parts are highlighted and oddly some parts are blacked out. I’ve asked a German friend what the highlighted part means, and was told the bad news ~ that it excludes all race tracks.



At the same time, BMW NA is now requesting for receipts/Invoice of the property damage at the Nurburgring and to fill out an accident report with a drawing. I found this odd that they are requesting more information but figured there is some hope.

Another week goes by and I try as hard as I can not to call/email BMW but couldn’t help myself. The person handling my case said they would get an answer from HDI the next day, but that slowly turned into another week. I followed up and followed up and sounded like she was under the impression that HDI would contact me. Then I got this email yesterday.



So now I am currently roping in Nurburgring law enforcement department and have forward it to BMW and likely going to have to talk to the Insurance company again. As of now, it seems like the HDI is not even honoring the 3rd party coverage of the property damage. To think that I was not only driving uninsured but no 3rd party coverage (called liability coverage in the US) on the Nordschleife during public tourist drives really blows my mind. The thought of being responsible for a multi super car accident because my coolant hose blows, or worse, someone gets injured or... yeah.

I was very naive to think that the BMW European Delivery Program provided a clear policy that Insures the Nordschleife during public days. After all the research and fellow forum members here asking if it’s covered, even post Allianz to HDI change. If it is ultimately not insured, I do feel a little slighted that BMW ED didn’t actively warn new customers about the new Insurance stance on the Nurburgring. In 2015, they clearly scared me to death about little Lichtenstein lol. I mean, what could possibly go wrong there compared to driving on the Nordschleife during a tourist day, where you can be liable for others. I would imagine doing a lap on the Nordschleife is not a foreign idea on a European Delivery trip.

Maybe it was a slight oversight by BMW ED or it was a budget decision to go from Allianz to HDI.

Would I visit the Nurburgring again? Absolutely, but under very different circumstances. Rent a track prepped car or pay the premium for a track day. At least that way you know you’re only responsible for yourself and your car (again, please read the fine print). I think it’s way too risky and no fun worrying about the worst case scenario for 10 minutes.

Would I do another BMW ED? Probably. I have been a big BMW fan all my life and driving a M car in Germany is truly a dream come true.

I am still currently in Germany trying to sort this out and it will be coming up to a month being car-less (the alignment is a bit off and just don’t feel safe driving around). It’s not totally over yet and will keep trying to cover all basis with my case with the Insurance and BMW. Hopefully my experience can help others with making a decision when coming out to the Nurburgring!



TLDR- Crashed my car on the Nordschleife during public tourist ride. Estimated $20,000+ in damages (probably a lot less) and BMW’s European Delivery Insurance policy from HDI denies my claim 3 times.

[hatepotholez]

damn so sorry this happened to you. I wonder why they changed from Allianz to HDI? Also isn't the ring considered a "public road"?

Thanks for warning us, this sways my decision not to take my car on the ring but rent one instead.

I hope it works out for you.

[MomoM3]

Sorry to hear about your story but thankfully you’re ok and the car wasn’t damaged too bad. Sounds like a huge inconvenience and damper on your trip though.

I agree that BMW ED should warn drivers about the ‘Ring as it relates to the HDI insurance policy to avoid others finding out the hard way as you did.

I can imagine that’s gotta be one of the most popular destinations for an ED pickup, no? Very scary to think of how many people might be running around with zero collision and liability insurance while driving Nurburgring right now.

[Darth One]

How is that 17k euros in damage? Looks like a scraped bumper and two rashed wheels...?? :

[LOW4LYF]

Originally Posted by Darth One

How is that 17k euros in damage? Looks like a scraped bumper and two rashed wheels...?? :

They let you pay for the damage on the track like the guard railing and if they close the track because of the accident you need to pay the money they lost.

[Thescout13]

I'm sorry man. I remember all the threads about ED and the ring that you participated in and this breaks my heart. Keep us updated on your baby.

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by Figurka

They let you pay for the damage on the track like the guard railing and if they close the track because of the accident you need to pay the money they lost.

That's not what was 17,000. The 17,000 is what the repairs cost him for the car, he already said he paid ring damage of 1,700 on the spot.

[CachacoF80]

Sorry to hear. I'm picking my car in 2 weeks and have been debating whether to just do RingTaxi and/or rent a car and leave mine safely. I think even renting a car there is a large potential out of pocket if you have an incident.

Can you kindly share why you lost control? Was it others ahead of you the originated the incident? Were you pushing it a bit? The question is not meant to serve as criticism (because I appreciate a lot that you are posting this for others) more as a self assessment for me.

Hope it all works out.

[Nikolas]

That totally sucks! Sorry to hear. I just turned my car in, but I asked at the Welt about coverage at the ring. They said it's covered. I'd raise hell at BMW NA. I can't say I read the policy though. We ended up skipping the ring due to time constraints.

[dongerkim]

First off, thanks everyone for your response.

Originally Posted by hatepotholez

damn so sorry this happened to you. I wonder why they changed from Allianz to HDI? Also isn't the ring considered a "public road"?

I am trying to get a statement in WRITING from the insurance on their definitive definition. I already have a statement from the Nurburgring Law enforcement department. I just want to see how this pan's before quoting any party. I didnt realize how many moving parts would be involved. BMW N/A, HDI, Nurburgring and myself.

Originally Posted by Darth One

How is that 17k euros in damage? Looks like a scraped bumper and two rashed wheels...?? :

I was surprised as well. This is just what I was told. I do remember curbing my wheel + had a small bumper scuff when I dropped of my car during my first ED. Upon re-delivery, I saw a pretty large invoice to make the car perfect. I believe taxes are higher here and likely have a higher tolerance for repairs. Ironically, I was not expecting the first car's damages to be fixed via insurance, but was expecting my current car to be fixed lol.

Originally Posted by Figurka

They let you pay for the damage on the track like the guard railing and if they close the track because of the accident you need to pay the money they lost.

I believe the time of track closure cost is a rumor.

Originally Posted by CachacoF80

Sorry to hear. I'm picking my car in 2 weeks and have been debating whether to just do RingTaxi and/or rent a car and leave mine safely. I think even renting a car there is a large potential out of pocket if you have an incident.

Can you kindly share why you lost control? Was it others ahead of you the originated the incident? Were you pushing it a bit? The question is not meant to serve as criticism (because I appreciate a lot that you are posting this for others) more as a self assessment for me.

Hope it all works out.

Yes, most rentals will have a deductable if you crash and usually does not include track barrier repairs. At the very least you're somewhat capped financially for the worst case scenario.

To answer your question on how I lost control. There were no cars ahead or behind me that influenced the crash at all. Believe it or not, I really was not pushing it, I just made a simple mistake and misjudged my speed and turning point. It was a combination of not slowing down enough/not turning the steering wheel enough. If i had to guess, I probably made contact with the barrier going around 40-80KPH.

I just want to be clear, when I scan my ticket and the entry gate goes up I accept its not a matter of "if" but "when". I really am thankful that no one else was involved.

[FlyingLow78]

When I crashed at Monza back in January, my insurance denied my claim for damage to my car, but did pay for the damage to the other car involved. They only did this because I've been accident- and ticket-free with them for over 13 years. I didn't have any special coverage beyond normal comprehensive and collision commensurate with Italian law.

[dongerkim]

Originally Posted by FlyingLow78

When I crashed at Monza back in January, my insurance denied my claim for damage to my car, but did pay for the damage to the other car involved. They only did this because I've been accident- and ticket-free with them for over 13 years. I didn't have any special coverage beyond normal comprehensive and collision commensurate with Italian law.

I have been told that it is Germany law that all cars with license plates will have 3rd party coverage a the very least. I find this all so gray when it comes to the Nurburgring. The fact that HDI denied even the property damage claim gives me a bad feeling that I had 3rd party insurance.

The real lesson I learned is ~ Don't be a afraid to ask the tough questions, and get it in writing. I don't want to read the terms of service or the fine print as much as the next guy, but now I find it necessary. Actually I don't even think getting it in writing is good enough....

I hate to quote somebody but I always seem to come back to this post ~

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...7&postcount=92



How would you even begin to interpret this?

[bd307]

I remember when we were doing ED in 2016, exclusions were listed and Nordschleife was not one of them.

I asked the lady who handled the ED paperwork with me at the Welt before the delivery specifically about Nordschleife and she pointed to me the exclusions and that was how I know about the exclusions. The list of exclusions included some countries that were not covered under the ED insurance policy.

Thank you for sharing the information and hope the car will be back in shape very soon.

[shiv.nandak]

Originally Posted by Darth One

How is that 17k euros in damage? Looks like a scraped bumper and two rashed wheels...?? :

Yea.. a hard impact will rash your wheels. Sounds like the impact was substantial.

[IK6SPEED]

Note to self....

If comp and collision claim, do NOT reveal it occurred at Nurburgring.

Props to the OP for posting this.

[420Coupe]

Shit! this is definitely an unfortunate situation!

I hope this get's worked out and they at the very least cover a portion of it.

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by IK6SPEED

Note to self....

If comp and collision claim, do NOT reveal it occurred at Nurburgring.

Props to the OP for posting this.

Exactly what I was thinking haha. If it's drivable, drive off the ring, find a railing in a side street or a less busy highway and "crash" (read bump) into it, then call insurance.

Granted, that's insurance fraud and I would NEVER do that. But if I was a more scrupulous man I might.

[Nikolas]

Originally Posted by 420Coupe

Shit! this is definitely an unfortunate situation!

I hope this get's worked out and they at the very least cover a portion of it.

They should cover it as it is officially considered a race track only during timed race events, otherwise it is a toll road. Painful that it is all of a sudden not covered with the switch in insurance companies.

[Space gray]

Originally Posted by dongerkim

I have been told that it is Germany law that all cars with license plates will have 3rd party coverage a the very least. I find this all so gray when it comes to the Nurburgring. The fact that HDI denied even the property damage claim gives me a bad feeling that I had 3rd party insurance.

The real lesson I learned is ~ Don't be a afraid to ask the tough questions, and get it in writing. I don't want to read the terms of service or the fine print as much as the next guy, but now I find it necessary. Actually I don't even think getting it in writing is good enough....

I hate to quote somebody but I always seem to come back to this post ~

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...7&postcount=92



How would you even begin to interpret this?

Hi OP, I'm very sorry for the troubles you're having.
I took mine to the Ring back in April 2017 after the insurance had switched to HDI Global. In view of what's happening to you, I'm fortunate that nothing happened but I remember running the referenced German document in google translate after I got back. From my recollection, there was no specific exclusion for Nurburgring, but there was some exclusion language for "maximum speed trials" and maybe competition. The other exclusions I recall were the obvious ones like no coverage while you're committing a crime or drunk driving.
It seems very sketchy that the policy document in German that they sent you has blacked out portions. How is it possible that the insurance company can change they policy at their whim? This doesn't seem right.
If I were in your shoes, I would find an insurance lawyer in Germany and request a full copy of the insurance policy and have the lawyer review it.
I hope that this gets resolved to your satisfaction.

[Don Molina]

Hi, the Nordschleife is (when not during races) a one-way toll road.

German insurances need to explicitly deny claims done in such an environment, I'm pretty sure about that. Otherwise the insurance would need to pay.

During TF, the 'Ring is NOT a race track, and not a competition event, so these usual disqualifiers do not apply.

Misha from Apex has a video on Youtube explaining insurance for the 'Ring during TF, it's pretty enlightening.

I would suggest you go through the actual insurance contract and see what it mentions with regards to one-way toll roads.


In any case, sucks man. I feel for you :|

[dongerkim]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I got denied again for the 4th time today but still trying to explore one other avenue. I will update as soon as I can, I just want to make sure I have all the information at once.

It sounds very self serving since I'm in the hot seat, but it would be nice to set a precedent for all future European Deliveries!

[Darth One]

Whenever you have the repairs done, make sure they itemize every penny of that 17k. That's a quarter of the value of the car for two wheels and a bumper. A 666 wheel is what, a grand? And even two bumper covers are not gonna come close to adding up to the rest.

If you end up on the hook financially, it might be better just to get it repaired in the States, assuming it's not unsafe to transport. Actually, if it's a lease you might not want to go nuts on concours-quality paint jobs anyway