I've made a terrible mistake - test drove a 2018 Cayman S PDK

[MNoob]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

Boys are nearly 6, 3, and 0 years of age. The nearly 6 year old is 50.5" tall - very tall for his age.

My folks had a 911 when i was a kid. road trip with me and my brother stuffed in the back. and 2 dogs. just say no. even with young kids, you might as well fold them into a suitcase and stuff them in the trunk.

[996ttelise]

Originally Posted by MNoob

My folks had a 911 when i was a kid. road trip with me and my brother stuffed in the back. and 2 dogs. just say no. even with young kids, you might as well fold them into a suitcase and stuff them in the trunk.

Lol, nothing s little therapy might resolve for ya! 911s are bigger today and the 991 back seat is even bigger than the 997.

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Hi Joe,

I think before you give up on the f80 try to ride in one with an aftermarket full coilovers setup (+/- R tires). A baller $$ onlins or jrz setup might get you closer to what you want without needing to move to a p-car

Also, my $0.02 is don't necessarily think that a 911 will be better than a cayman. It's pretty different "feel" in my opinion, with the mid vs rear engine

Another idea is that you could keep your f80 and get someone's "spec boxster" or "spec 996" as a toy. The ones prepped for timed competition are more fun than the stockers and you can really toss them around since they are relatively cheap used cars with full safety equipment.

Don't bother resisting, just add a pure sports car to live with your f80

It doesn't.

I have Ohlin R/T on my M3, and while it tames the rear-end and the rebound stroke that the stock suspension fails at, it still doesn't feel quite right or what you will get from Porsche.

It's very punishing over certain bumps and that is with the reduced rear spring rate from the M2 kit.

[blschaefer1]

Originally Posted by 996ttelise

None of this is a big deal nor really matters. I am just curious. I also have only raced Spec Caymans, but never actually spent time in street Caymans.

Did you have Contis on the 911? Which tires did you have? I know the Continentals do make noise from experience in turbos with wider tires. I have a 991.2 turbo and my wife has 997.2 with 305s. Both have PS4s. I have been driving my turbo all day and was listening for road noise since this thread.

Lol, I must be deaf from my band touring days because I don't hear crap or pebbles. My wife's car is dead quiet also and both of ours are cabriolets with a lot of camber.

Both the 981 and 991 came with P Zero’s. I switched to Michelin Pilot Super Sports on the 991. Tire roar improved, but was still present.

Both my cars has PSE and I would typically drive with the baffles closed (quiet mode) unless I was getting after it in a canyon or something. The cars are loud inside, plain and simple, though the 991 is better because the engine is further away from the driver.

Having said all this, you don’t buy these cars for their quiet interiors. You buy them for the driving dynamics, part of which are the sounds....engine mechanicals, exhaust, tires, etc. Some people spend thousands to upgrade to the Burmester audio package which makes little sense to me given the above.

My tastes and priorities have changed since my Porsche days (and M4 days). I currently have 2017 S6 in the garage. More of a daily driver now as opposed to special occasion car. Glorious V8 sounds that are not synthesized as is the case with current BMW’s. Excellent 7 speed DCT. Ultra comfortable freeway cruiser with just enough naughtiness to have fun in when needed. Too bad the V8 is going away in future iterations. It is a magical powerplant.

[996ttelise]

Originally Posted by blschaefer1

Both the 981 and 991 came with P Zero’s. I switched to Michelin Pilot Super Sports on the 991. Tire roar improved, but was still present.

Both my cars has PSE and I would typically drive with the baffles closed (quiet mode) unless I was getting after it in a canyon or something. The cars are loud inside, plain and simple, though the 991 is better because the engine is further away from the driver.

Having said all this, you don’t buy these cars for their quiet interiors. You buy them for the driving dynamics, part of which are the sounds....engine mechanicals, exhaust, tires, etc. Some people spend thousands to upgrade to the Burmester audio package which makes little sense to me given the above.

My tastes and priorities have changed since my Porsche days (and M4 days). I currently have 2017 S6 in the garage. More of a daily driver now as opposed to special occasion car. Glorious V8 sounds that are not synthesized as is the case with current BMW’s. Excellent 7 speed DCT. Ultra comfortable freeway cruiser with just enough naughtiness to have fun in when needed. Too bad the V8 is going away in future iterations. It is a magical powerplant.

I think that pretty well explains it. You have a completely different back drop than I and completely different set of expectations or needs.

I wouldn't drive an S6 if Audi gave me one for free . . . Didn't really drive the M3 either . . . My wife had an S7 for a few months and an AMG CLS for a year before her Macan S. The Audi felt like what I perceive a Buick to drive like.

I have always driven sports cars including old school Diablo VT and 6.0, had a CGT, 3 diff Ferrari Challenge cars, air cooled 911s with primary or secondary bypass and no cats, and etc. To me, the 991 is quiet, smooth and luxurious.

I used to drive my Stage II catless exhaust Elise, with Lexan windows, what little bit of sound insulation it once had ripped out and sitting on Hoosiers with Ohlins back and forth to Florida at one time when it was my dedicated beach car and I needed to get back to my place in Tennessee on short notice. That car would literally make my head and ear rings after about an hour or so and that was an 8 hour trip. Made my 911 feel Rolls like.

Guys coming from luxo cruiser backgrounds complain about road noise. Guys coming from a sports car back ground are amazed about how comfy 911s really are.

[instarand]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

All,

I have 47k miles on my '15 F80 m3 6mt. I've considered getting ridden of it but it's just been a spotless all around excellent vehicle. For the sake of this commentary, know that I'm riding on 18" wheels rocking 265/285 continental DW tires (i.e. slightly taller and wider than stock).

My boss just bought a fully loaded 2017 Cayman S. It was a dealer car loaded with every option. PASM, 20" wheels, Sport Chrono, etc.

He handed me the keys and let me drive it the way it's meant to be. And now I can't get it out of my head.

First, let me acknowledge I'm comparing a 4-door sedan to a 2-door mid-engine car. But I'm not comparing their track capabilities. The cayman DROVE better.

I realize this can become a contentious topic because it's the subjective. The feel of a chassis, steering feel, braking feel, ride quality, response, sound, etc.

What first hit me was I drove over a patch of broken up pavement I've driven over many times in the m3. It creates substantial body movements and chassis disruption. It doesn't feel good either. In the Cayman in Sport mode, it floated over it. You felt it, you felt connected to the road, it just didn't bother the cayman.

As I began to toss it around more I began to realize all of it's manners just felt like a higher level than I'm used to.

Now I can't stop thinking about it and need to go drive a 911 with PASM. I can't do a cayman with 3 boys - it's just not right as I'd never be able to take them with me. But if a new(ish) 911 drives like this...

Just wanted to share this.

Joe

P.s. I haven't driven an f8x comp package yet, which I understand also offers a superior suspension feel/ride quality than the adaptive suspension 2015 f8x.

You're comparing a purpose built sports car to a sporty version of a 3 series sedan. That's like a cayman/911 owner test driving an M3 and being like damn that's so much more comfortable and practical, why is BMW so much better?!

Porsche 911's and cayman's are sports cars through and through. Purpose built from the ground up with only one goal in mind.

I sold my 997.2 C2S once my first child came (10 weeks ago) and bought an M3. I bought the M3 because it does so many things really well. It's fast as hell, it's big "enough" for most family activities, it's fun and cool, it has BMW quality and it's available in stick shift. It does everything really well, but it's not the best in any of those categories in my opinion. It isn't best sports car, it isn't the most practical car, not the best build quality, etc., it doesn't have most advanced tech or have the best fit and finish... but it does all of those things really well. In my opinion it may very well be the best all around car for the enthusiast with a small family. Hence my 2018 M3 which I love.

The 911/ cayman does one thing really well: it's an awesome sports car. Compared to the M3 It's tighter, the gear box is crisper, the balance and chassis is sharper, the fit and finish in my opinion is a step above bmw, etc.

So if you're looking for the a one (maybe two) trick pony the 911/Cayman is hard to beat especially for the price. But don't expect to test drive a Porsche for a day and wonder why it "feels" so much better than the run of the mill M3. Take the cayman to Home Depot with a baby, a stroller and a diaper bag and report back on how it went.

[Darth One]

Who brings a baby to home depot??

[instarand]

Originally Posted by Darth One

Who brings a baby to home depot??

Haha. He sleeps his best on car rides and stroller rides. Why not kill two birds with one stone and get some errands done!

[JoeFromPA]

You know - I think one thing I was saying was totally missed here....

The Cayman's poise was such that it felt like it offer a more enjoyable DAILY DRIVER for me than the m3. Albeit with less cargo room and no room for passengers.

That was the surprise. Not that it could handle better, not that it sounded good, not that it had better steering or braking. But that as a package, and with 20" wheels against my 18", I felt like it would actually handle my daily roads with more poise and enjoyment.

I realize that's a summation of an emotion damn near impossible to capture with words. But those of you thinking I drove the cayman and went "Oh look it's so much more of a dedicated sports car than my M3".....no, that's not it. What surprised me and made me upset I drove it was that I felt like it would make a more fun daily driver over broken pavement and round the local roads. Which is why I've been shopping Cayman S' and 991.1's for 4 days.....

[Funf6cyl]

Originally Posted by instarand

You're comparing a purpose built sports car to a sporty version of a 3 series sedan. That's like a cayman/911 owner test driving an M3 and being like damn that's so much more comfortable and practical, why is BMW so much better?!

Porsche 911's and cayman's are sports cars through and through. Purpose built from the ground up with only one goal in mind.

I sold my 997.2 C2S once my first child came (10 weeks ago) and bought an M3. I bought the M3 because it does so many things really well. It's fast as hell, it's big "enough" for most family activities, it's fun and cool, it has BMW quality and it's available in stick shift. It does everything really well, but it's not the best in any of those categories in my opinion. It isn't best sports car, it isn't the most practical car, not the best build quality, etc., it doesn't have most advanced tech or have the best fit and finish... but it does all of those things really well. In my opinion it may very well be the best all around car for the enthusiast with a small family. Hence my 2018 M3 which I love.

The 911/ cayman does one thing really well: it's an awesome sports car. Compared to the M3 It's tighter, the gear box is crisper, the balance and chassis is sharper, the fit and finish in my opinion is a step above bmw, etc.

So if you're looking for the a one (maybe two) trick pony the 911/Cayman is hard to beat especially for the price. But don't expect to test drive a Porsche for a day and wonder why it "feels" so much better than the run of the mill M3. Take the cayman to Home Depot with a baby, a stroller and a diaper bag and report back on how it went.

I wouldn’t say the 911 and Cayman are at all own trick ponies. Everything they do, are some of the best, if not the best, in the business. My 991.2S is damn practical, including taking kids in the back and ample space for groceries or bags from shopping up from. When I need more space, I take my Macan GTS which if you ask my opinion is a lot more fun to drive than either my M3 or M4 were. It’s buiot much better and sounds levels better too...as well as the PDK being a better transmission. Sure it’s not as fast, but it’s plenty fast for any type of street driving. Again, it’s a better place to be and just a riot to drive.

[Funf6cyl]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

You know - I think one thing I was saying was totally missed here....

The Cayman's poise was such that it felt like it offer a more enjoyable DAILY DRIVER for me than the m3. Albeit with less cargo room and no room for passengers.

That was the surprise. Not that it could handle better, not that it sounded good, not that it had better steering or braking. But that as a package, and with 20" wheels against my 18", I felt like it would actually handle my daily roads with more poise and enjoyment.

I realize that's a summation of an emotion damn near impossible to capture with words. But those of you thinking I drove the cayman and went "Oh look it's so much more of a dedicated sports car than my M3".....no, that's not it. What surprised me and made me upset I drove it was that I felt like it would make a more fun daily driver over broken pavement and round the local roads. Which is why I've been shopping Cayman S' and 991.1's for 4 days.....

I have said there isn’t a better, more cohesive, put together car than a Porsche in the world, and I simply don’t think there is. Porsche knows not only engines, but is seasons to none when it comes to suspension. The highest quality tubing and parts offer what not many others can. My 911 S in 20s rides worlds better than my M3 or M4 did on 19s or even an M3/4 on 18s and that says all you need to know about how much more advanced the 911 is.

[KevinGS]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

You know - I think one thing I was saying was totally missed here....

The Cayman's poise was such that it felt like it offer a more enjoyable DAILY DRIVER for me than the m3. Albeit with less cargo room and no room for passengers.

That was the surprise. Not that it could handle better, not that it sounded good, not that it had better steering or braking. But that as a package, and with 20" wheels against my 18", I felt like it would actually handle my daily roads with more poise and enjoyment.

I realize that's a summation of an emotion damn near impossible to capture with words. But those of you thinking I drove the cayman and went "Oh look it's so much more of a dedicated sports car than my M3".....no, that's not it. What surprised me and made me upset I drove it was that I felt like it would make a more fun daily driver over broken pavement and round the local roads. Which is why I've been shopping Cayman S' and 991.1's for 4 days.....

Because if you don't need the space, and you love driving (and don't need to win all the stoplight races), the Cayman is simply a better car. Many experts have concluded that the Cayman may be the most enjoyable car to drive on a road or track, because it's so tossable, immediate and pure. And you can get AC, a radio and enough luxury to keep you coddled on longer trips.

I've driven both a Boxster in an autocross, and a Cayman on a track, and the experience is incredible....so tossable, so planted, suspension so alive.

BUT, having said that, I wish it had about 100 more horsepower, because that chassis can handle more power. I would love to drive a GT4, just to see how much it ups the ante.

So, yes, don't even compare your M3 to the Cayman, it's simply an unfair comparison.

[instarand]

Originally Posted by Funf6cyl

I wouldn’t say the 911 and Cayman are at all own trick ponies. Everything they do, are some of the best, if not the best, in the business. My 991.2S is damn practical, including taking kids in the back and ample space for groceries or bags from shopping up from. When I need more space, I take my Macan GTS which if you ask my opinion is a lot more fun to drive than either my M3 or M4 were. It’s buiot much better and sounds levels better too...as well as the PDK being a better transmission. Sure it’s not as fast, but it’s plenty fast for any type of street driving. Again, it’s a better place to be and just a riot to drive.

You are right. A dodge demon is a one trick pony. The 911 is actually pretty usable considering its size and intent. I used to fit two sets of golf clubs and groceries in my 997. The cayman is significantly less usable however vs a 911.

The 911 just seems small to me since I have now a baby that requires a rear facing child seat. That alone blows up the entire 911 program which is why I sold. Rear facing baby seat in the back rendered the passenger seat useless - all the way forward and tilted into the dash.

I haven't experimented with forward facing car seats in the 911. In CT, babies need to be rear facing until 2, and then in a car seat (of different variations) until the age of 8. Once my youngest is older than 2 (some future unborn baby) then I am going to try 911 configurations again with car seats.

For me, right now, nothing beats a MT M3. I f-ing love this thing!!

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

It doesn't.

I have Ohlin R/T on my M3, and while it tames the rear-end and the rebound stroke that the stock suspension fails at, it still doesn't feel quite right or what you will get from Porsche.

It's very punishing over certain bumps and that is with the reduced rear spring rate from the M2 kit.

I was thinking 3-way ttx when I posted but point taken, sometimes it is easier to just get a Porsche than modify

[M3 Esq]

You shouldn't have driven it. The damage has been done.

If you're thinking 911 the 991 platform seems to have been designed to drive more like a cayman than a traditional 911. The front axle is considerably wider than the 997 and it's longer and they moved the motor farther forward. Plus the chassis is more sophisticated as is pasm over bmws edc. As you pointed out it just seems to absorb imperfections in the road better than Bmw.

Don't drive one if you don't plan on buying one

[Funf6cyl]

Originally Posted by KevinGS

Because if you don't need the space, and you love driving (and don't need to win all the stoplight races), the Cayman is simply a better car. Many experts have concluded that the Cayman may be the most enjoyable car to drive on a road or track, because it's so tossable, immediate and pure. And you can get AC, a radio and enough luxury to keep you coddled on longer trips.

I've driven both a Boxster in an autocross, and a Cayman on a track, and the experience is incredible....so tossable, so planted, suspension so alive.

BUT, having said that, I wish it had about 100 more horsepower, because that chassis can handle more power. I would love to drive a GT4, just to see how much it ups the ante.

So, yes, don't even compare your M3 to the Cayman, it's simply an unfair comparison.

Have you driven the new 718 S or GTS? They surely do not need more power anymore and are even better to drive (think GT4+). The S/GTS are faster than the GT4 in a straight and are as fast on track despite not running cup tires. The steeering is incredible too. I am not sure how Porsche can get EPS to have so much feel yet every other version by anyone else is beyond bad. The new 4 Cylinder also sounds quite good - I prefer the GTS with the changes to the turbo and intake as it really seems to scream more than it does in the S.

[shortseller]

Bottom line here is, every car enthusiast should at some point drive a mid engine Porsche just to see what it’s all about, problem is what the OP is now lamenting over!

[KevinGS]

Originally Posted by Funf6cyl

Have you driven the new 718 S or GTS? They surely do not need more power anymore and are even better to drive (think GT4+). The S/GTS are faster than the GT4 in a straight and are as fast on track despite not running cup tires. The steeering is incredible too. I am not sure how Porsche can get EPS to have so much feel yet every other version by anyone else is beyond bad. The new 4 Cylinder also sounds quite good - I prefer the GTS with the changes to the turbo and intake as it really seems to scream more than it does in the S.

I have not driven the new 4-cylinder Cayman/Boxster? But if they got that 4-cylinder to sound legit, and it's faster, then that would be perfect.

A screaming Cayman or Boxster is just nirvana. And I think the new Boxster Spyder is just sick, love that thing. I even like the old 2011 one.

[Speed District]

Porsche > BMW. End Thread

[saeyedoc]

Originally Posted by KevinGS

I have not driven the new 4-cylinder Cayman/Boxster? But if they got that 4-cylinder to sound legit, and it's faster, then that would be perfect.

A screaming Cayman or Boxster is just nirvana. And I think the new Boxster Spyder is just sick, love that thing. I even like the old 2011 one.

Unfortunately, the sound isn't nearly as good as the old one.

[Golfster]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

As I began to toss it around more I began to realize all of it's manners just felt like a higher level than I'm used to.

Now I can't stop thinking about it and need to go drive a 911 with PASM.

It's hard to put the genie back in the bottle!

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by Golfster

It's hard to put the genie back in the bottle!

I'm currently evaluating doing something crazy like:

- New Wrangler Unlimited 6mt for bad weather and family hauling or
- 6mt Toyota Tacoma for same

+

PDK Boxster 718 / Cayman 718 (if Wrangler, then Cayman)

...

My income fluctuates by ~40-60% per year so maybe I'll see how this next quarter goes