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10-28-2017, 03:16 PM | #1 | |
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Autocar: Dirk Hacker hints next generation M3/M4 may not get manual transmission
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/i...and-csl-models
To this end, Hacker confirmed the M2 is likely to be the last M car offered with a manual gearbox, saying: “I like manual very much, but the take up rate from customers on cars other than the M2 is just going down. The fact is that a double clutch gearbox delivers better performance and efficiency.” Quote:
Reminds me of the bad old 1970s / 1980s GM and Roger Smith, selling Cadillac Cimarons as BMW M-fighters. Cars like those were in such poor taste that one could be excused for swearing "never American, only German" when it came to car ownership. Sadly, today BMW sells Prius-fighters and 1970s Cadillac-clones and then in an ironic and Orwellian-twist, insists that the target market for these abominations is driving enthusiasts. Today, M = automatic transmissions, xDrive, low-revving, turbocharged powerplants installed in obese, huge, chrome-clad platforms slathered in M decals. To my eye there's more in common here with a 1975 Pontiac Trans Am and the Smokey Bandit crowd than Euro performance motoring. As anyone who remembers BMW's M pre-Millennial history knows, a good, classic M car is compact, lightweight, quick (but probably not bone-crushingly fast), athletic, agile, and understated in appearance and styling. All of these attributes in toto made BMWs of that era "authentic". Hard to define, but easy to know. Just compare pics of an E30 M3 and Cadillac Cimarron, or a ZL1 1LE and M4 GTS. One is authentic, one isn't. Prediction: BMW under current corporate governance will become a case study at HBS / Kellogg / Wharton as an example of long-term value destruction in pursuit of near-term growth. The BMW brand once represented a legitimate 4-door alternative to Porsche and was the unchallenged ruler of the sport sedan segment. They discarded that crown to compete with Prius. BMW management appears to view M Division as a minor annoyance rather than a halo sub-brand. Screw BMW. I'll take my next performance car from GM, Ford, or Porsche please. Pathetic.
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Outside: BMW M-Aero, Euro region lighting, Seibon | Inside: M3 cockpit, Recaro SPG, Prototipo, AutoSolutions SSK, UCP | Stop: M3 ST-40R, PFC | Grip: Solid-mounted subframes, rear coilover conversion, M3 Nitron R3, Hyperco, SPL, AKG, ARC8 | Go: StageFP, CF snorkel, 3IM, MILVs, SuperSprint headers, Dundon Motorsports Inconel exhaust, VoltPhreaks | Cool: CSF | PCA #2018100384 | BMW CCA #505794 Last edited by tetsuo111; 10-30-2017 at 07:45 PM.. |
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10-28-2017, 03:22 PM | #2 |
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Why is BMW pathetic? They are only reacting to consumer demand. Stop buying those junk dct transmissions and they will stop producing them.
I just bought a manual and will continue to as long as it's offered. My next car will most likely be a manual Porsche. |
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10-28-2017, 03:27 PM | #3 | |
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IME, product portfolios shaped by demand work satisfactorily with commodities. And if BMW has evolved strategy to compete in the automotive commodity segment, then this might be reasonable. But I thought this company competes in the premium segment? And segment leaders are defined by innovation and delivering product in an iconoclastic manner, i.e. Apple, Amazon, etc. I understand. My early cars were Porsches. I had to move heaven and earth to find a 6MT BMW wagon. In fact the sales agent was so adamant that I try a new SUV and could not understand why I needed a wagon. When I told her it's about the driving dynamics, her facial expression simply looked confused.
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2011 6MT RWD ClubSport Wagon | 3,185lbs | 1 of 149 ZSPs delivered in North America
Outside: BMW M-Aero, Euro region lighting, Seibon | Inside: M3 cockpit, Recaro SPG, Prototipo, AutoSolutions SSK, UCP | Stop: M3 ST-40R, PFC | Grip: Solid-mounted subframes, rear coilover conversion, M3 Nitron R3, Hyperco, SPL, AKG, ARC8 | Go: StageFP, CF snorkel, 3IM, MILVs, SuperSprint headers, Dundon Motorsports Inconel exhaust, VoltPhreaks | Cool: CSF | PCA #2018100384 | BMW CCA #505794 |
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10-28-2017, 03:32 PM | #5 |
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At least it sounds like DCT is still going to be an option rather than ZF auto..
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10-28-2017, 03:34 PM | #6 | |
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Most people dont fit that profile, and if you want to sell to most people then you give up on the things the enthusiasts love. BMW is becoming like Ford or GM. I consider myself lucky to have owned an E46, and F80. Sadly, by the time I decide to replace my F80 i doubt anyone will make manuals anymore. The next owner of my F80 will be a scrap yard, because ill drive it until there is nothing left to drive. |
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10-28-2017, 03:51 PM | #7 | |
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Companies are simply an extension of the Board's and executive management interests and priorities. In the case of BMW, the managers and strategy that made the company relevant and interesting were cast aside in exchange for pursuing very fast growth. There's no such thing as a free lunch. And bottom line - I don't care how many times BMW tells us that M cars are better cars with autos. These aren't the people I consider driving enthusiasts nor would I waste time talking cars and sharing a beverage with them.
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2011 6MT RWD ClubSport Wagon | 3,185lbs | 1 of 149 ZSPs delivered in North America
Outside: BMW M-Aero, Euro region lighting, Seibon | Inside: M3 cockpit, Recaro SPG, Prototipo, AutoSolutions SSK, UCP | Stop: M3 ST-40R, PFC | Grip: Solid-mounted subframes, rear coilover conversion, M3 Nitron R3, Hyperco, SPL, AKG, ARC8 | Go: StageFP, CF snorkel, 3IM, MILVs, SuperSprint headers, Dundon Motorsports Inconel exhaust, VoltPhreaks | Cool: CSF | PCA #2018100384 | BMW CCA #505794 |
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10-28-2017, 03:59 PM | #8 |
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There are also a few other articles that suggest the manual will remain...
Speculation
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10-28-2017, 04:05 PM | #9 | |
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To this end, Hacker confirmed the M2 is likely to be the last M car offered with a manual gearbox, saying: “I like manual very much, but the take up rate from customers on cars other than the M2 is just going down. The fact is that a double clutch gearbox delivers better performance and efficiency.” However, he did hint that the next generation M3 and M4 may not have to follow the M5 in using a four-wheel-drive system. “We will increase the power of these cars, but we don’t want to increase the weight,” he said. “We’ll use four-wheel drive where we need it.”
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2011 6MT RWD ClubSport Wagon | 3,185lbs | 1 of 149 ZSPs delivered in North America
Outside: BMW M-Aero, Euro region lighting, Seibon | Inside: M3 cockpit, Recaro SPG, Prototipo, AutoSolutions SSK, UCP | Stop: M3 ST-40R, PFC | Grip: Solid-mounted subframes, rear coilover conversion, M3 Nitron R3, Hyperco, SPL, AKG, ARC8 | Go: StageFP, CF snorkel, 3IM, MILVs, SuperSprint headers, Dundon Motorsports Inconel exhaust, VoltPhreaks | Cool: CSF | PCA #2018100384 | BMW CCA #505794 |
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10-28-2017, 04:15 PM | #10 |
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I knew it was the beginning of the end for BMW when they went to the electric starter and abandoned the hand crank in the 1950s.
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10-28-2017, 04:16 PM | #11 | ||
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Here people bitch and moan endlessly about this, but in 5 years we all will feel the consequences. A manual might not be lightning fast but it teaches one a lot about driving. This will become a safety issue with the new drivers.
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10-28-2017, 04:20 PM | #12 |
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First post - congrats.
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2011 6MT RWD ClubSport Wagon | 3,185lbs | 1 of 149 ZSPs delivered in North America
Outside: BMW M-Aero, Euro region lighting, Seibon | Inside: M3 cockpit, Recaro SPG, Prototipo, AutoSolutions SSK, UCP | Stop: M3 ST-40R, PFC | Grip: Solid-mounted subframes, rear coilover conversion, M3 Nitron R3, Hyperco, SPL, AKG, ARC8 | Go: StageFP, CF snorkel, 3IM, MILVs, SuperSprint headers, Dundon Motorsports Inconel exhaust, VoltPhreaks | Cool: CSF | PCA #2018100384 | BMW CCA #505794 |
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10-28-2017, 04:25 PM | #13 |
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First post but 3rd M car. Many folks on this forum have that ratio skewed the other way.
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10-28-2017, 04:37 PM | #14 | |
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I'm not saying you're wrong or right, but that article is hearsay. The title is sensational, and that particular article is meant to be "polarizing". Especially the part leading up to the quotation. You cannot say with certainty that this is true. You just cannot infer that is truth based off that quote. This is the same logic people use when reading articles about technology and science. Throwing around the names of prestigious universities is not a citation. More often than not, the citation is not posted because their data is cherry picked to reinforce the writer's point.
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10-28-2017, 05:55 PM | #15 | |
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Anything can change at anytime. But come on, even in an academic peer-review environment, the head of an institution is considered a credible source. Furthermore, dilution of the M brand is consistent with the corporate strategy of the past decade. Sadly I agree with you about the sensational headline. It seems to be the status quo today.
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2011 6MT RWD ClubSport Wagon | 3,185lbs | 1 of 149 ZSPs delivered in North America
Outside: BMW M-Aero, Euro region lighting, Seibon | Inside: M3 cockpit, Recaro SPG, Prototipo, AutoSolutions SSK, UCP | Stop: M3 ST-40R, PFC | Grip: Solid-mounted subframes, rear coilover conversion, M3 Nitron R3, Hyperco, SPL, AKG, ARC8 | Go: StageFP, CF snorkel, 3IM, MILVs, SuperSprint headers, Dundon Motorsports Inconel exhaust, VoltPhreaks | Cool: CSF | PCA #2018100384 | BMW CCA #505794 |
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10-28-2017, 06:20 PM | #16 |
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lol.
The G80 is like... 4 Years off. It is so early too tell and knee jerk reactions online doesn't help. You can honestly continue to complain but car enthusiasts are a dime a dozen now. Not to mention the continuing whining doesn't help BMW want to cater if all we do is complain. No one gives BMW/Benz constructive criticism anymore. Just more whining. MTs are taken less and less. That sadly won't change either. BMW won't lose money if a few people go away from the M brand. This isn't what their money comes from. Corporation is driven by sales. MT doesn't give it to them anymore. That is the bottom line. (Not gonna quote Stone Cold Steve Austin~)
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10-28-2017, 06:29 PM | #17 | |
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It would have been believable in a Q&A format, but that wasn't the case. I guess we'll see come product release.
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10-28-2017, 07:36 PM | #18 |
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LONG LIVE THE DCT
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10-28-2017, 07:39 PM | #19 |
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You all make sure that you yell at the kids to get off the lawn while you finish reading the newspaper before you go to your 3pm dinner at Denny's
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10-28-2017, 08:43 PM | #20 |
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2011 6MT RWD ClubSport Wagon | 3,185lbs | 1 of 149 ZSPs delivered in North America
Outside: BMW M-Aero, Euro region lighting, Seibon | Inside: M3 cockpit, Recaro SPG, Prototipo, AutoSolutions SSK, UCP | Stop: M3 ST-40R, PFC | Grip: Solid-mounted subframes, rear coilover conversion, M3 Nitron R3, Hyperco, SPL, AKG, ARC8 | Go: StageFP, CF snorkel, 3IM, MILVs, SuperSprint headers, Dundon Motorsports Inconel exhaust, VoltPhreaks | Cool: CSF | PCA #2018100384 | BMW CCA #505794 |
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10-28-2017, 08:47 PM | #21 |
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Better limit your posts. Too many and you'll lose an M. Maybe two. ;-)
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2011 6MT RWD ClubSport Wagon | 3,185lbs | 1 of 149 ZSPs delivered in North America
Outside: BMW M-Aero, Euro region lighting, Seibon | Inside: M3 cockpit, Recaro SPG, Prototipo, AutoSolutions SSK, UCP | Stop: M3 ST-40R, PFC | Grip: Solid-mounted subframes, rear coilover conversion, M3 Nitron R3, Hyperco, SPL, AKG, ARC8 | Go: StageFP, CF snorkel, 3IM, MILVs, SuperSprint headers, Dundon Motorsports Inconel exhaust, VoltPhreaks | Cool: CSF | PCA #2018100384 | BMW CCA #505794 |
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10-28-2017, 08:55 PM | #22 |
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I guess some people can't see the big picture in all this.
In 20 years there will be no ICE cars, let alone manuels. These are the glory days, enjoy them and one day we'll all look back and say remember when.... This has little to do with BMW specifically, I guess some people just can't read between the lines yet. If you were in a leadership role at BMW, would you invest your stakeholders money in R&D or technology that roughly 10% of your target buyers wanted or would shell out their own money for? Ok then. |
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