BMW M3 vs. Audi RS4. CarThrottle compares them!

[Jim B]

Originally Posted by erind

Lol what a bunch of noobs. No traction in wet conditions? I live in Belgium. We have a shitty weather here. It rains almost every day and the traction is fine. Where are they getting this information from. If its not the sound then they complain about something else. btw the sound of the new M4 is really nice in sport+ . I attended a meeting last week en everybody loved the sound.

This generation shot is missing one thing. An E30 M3!

[BMWJ]

....and doesn't this belong in the vs. section anyway......

[Law]

Originally Posted by 123sub

To bad that it is not possible to get a engine like the RS4 in the BMW.

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

For anyone who says the RS4 sounds like crap, you really must hear one in real life. One of my neighbors has one (100% stock) and trust me, it sounds like a gas turbine and due to the sound, turns heads all the time, which is a rarity where I live. I have to say it is probably one of the best engine noise cars I have ever heard, period.

This thread is the first time i've ever heard anyone complain about the sound of an RS4.


Still have a soft spot for the B7

[Kayani_1]

Glad to hear it from an owner of both cars.

Originally Posted by trinim3

No it's not even close. M3 has much better steering than the rs4/rs5...one of the few aspects that isn't up for debate

[gavinsan]

Originally Posted by Damasconian

I don't discount the comments from the UK reviewers stating the M twins are tough to drive in anything other than dry conditions. I head to the UK a lot for work and it rains almost through the year, regardless of season. To them, a car that performs well in the wet is much more important to them than it is to us.

I live in Texas. We love rain in Texas. But I get 330 days a year of sun and no rain so the "wet" aspect of the car was never considered even once. Maybe some of our Pac-NW members can chime in on this. I got nothing.

This is a fair point. I live in london and it rains plenty.
This time of year particularly the roads are very greasy and very rarely dry which offers little grip so a car like this f80 m3 is tough to enjoy without driving irresponsibly and illegally !

Evo in their review tested in clement wales and no surprise 4 wheel drive golf performed better..... but when you walk up to the new m3 it is sooo much more of a special car with pedigree and presence ! It looks like a serious performance car and goes like one !
Imho if you are going to spend the extra money on a performance vehicle when you drive it if it does not shock with its acceleration it kind of seems a waste !

[gavinsan]

Originally Posted by afadeev

There is nothing wrong with F80 in the wet that a little bit of traction control (calibrated right foot, with some DSC on top) can't fix.
Yes, the car has tons of torque, and you can spin rear wheels on demand in the wet in most gears. But what kind of a tool would got WOT in the rain in a performance car with any balls? Or complain about it?

I spent 3 days driving F80 in cold rain in Germany (40s and low 50s), and it behaved as predictably and reassuringly as one would ever desire. Both in the twisties, and on autobahn.

a

I have to disagree with the wet weather performance of the m3 . You cannot deploy the power in the wet and having 4 wheel drive allows you to do that .
I had several 4 wheel drive performance cars and all put down the power in the wet no trouble.
The reality is if you enjoy tiptoeing around in the wet then the m3 is fine but for fast wet weather driving you need 4 wheel drive imho.

I liked the new m3 and don't mind the traction issues and don't drive very aggressively anymore so no issue

[chris82]

Originally Posted by Law

This thread is the first time i've ever heard anyone complain about the sound of an RS4.


Still have a soft spot for the B7

That sounds incredible, holy ****

[Eichler1]

Originally Posted by trinim3

No it's not even close. M3 has much better steering than the rs4/rs5...one of the few aspects that isn't up for debate

It's a brave new world. Road & Track (1/15) describes the new 2015 Mustang GT's steering by saying, "It's BMW steering, the find you don't get in a BMW any more."

Admittedly having driven neither car in this comparison, I would not take the default position that the BMW's steering is better than the Audi's, as I might have in times past.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by Eichler1

It's a brave

Admittedly having driven neither car in this comparison, I would not take the default position that the BMW's steering is better than the Audi's, as I might have in times past.

I own one of the two and have about 2500 miles driving the rs5.

The handling, weight and steering is in another league. In its own right the rs5 is a great handling and steering car, but compared to the m3 (which isn't exactly small or a featherweight) it feels ponderous and slow to react.

No comparison here as far as vehicle dynamics go. And I have a soft spot for Audi after owning a b5 1.8t manual that I loved back when I was young

[brava09]

Originally Posted by /// M sa

Lol at the people bitching about traction, drove 300 miles in pouring rain and car handled great 80 + mph

Sure, but try to keep up with an RS4 and then talk about traction.

[ss134]

I agree with the all weather capabilities of the RS4 making sense, the M3 will not be as quick on a wet road and that's a fact......but in the dry the M utterly annihilates the RS4 on a track or in straight line performance. Despite the numbers looking similar it's on a different level of acceleration and grunt. The fact that it used twice as much fuel and doesn't look as good seals the fate of the RS4. Would love BMW to make an M3 estate, I would buy one in a heartbeat.

[brava09]

Originally Posted by ss134

The fact that it used twice as much fuel and doesn't look as good seals the fate of the RS4.

Definitely, as the RS4 is at the end of life, based on a 8 years old platform. Next year we should see a new generation and then speak again.

But against the E92 M3, the RS5 utterly annihilated it, both straight line and track. Just compare them on fastestlaps.com

[minn19]

Not according to these guys. Top Gear E90 M3 vs Audi RS5

http://www.topgear.com/uk/videos/994843088001

[onatuesday]

Originally Posted by minn19

Not according to these guys. Top Gear E90 M3 vs Audi RS5

http://www.topgear.com/uk/videos/994843088001

Before this gets out of hand let's please not go down this rabbit hole (as we have many times before). It's a matter of preference. F8x yes is faster than an e92 or b8 rs5/rs4. However, it's not all about straight line speed. And it's not all about steering. Too many other factors at play to make a unanimous decisive victory which is why we have to be okay with people having different opinions on which is the right car for their preferences.

[minn19]

@trinim3 it's not letting me quote for some reason. I know and completely agree with what you are saying. I was just having a little fun. But, I did find it interesting that this version of the Stig was able to pull off a faster lap in the E90 M3 vs the RS5 even in wet conditions. Which, seems to be the latest hang up here.

[onatuesday]

Originally Posted by minn19

@trinim3 it's not letting me quote for some reason. I know and completely agree with what you are saying. I was just having a little fun. But, I did find it interesting that this version of the Stig was able to pull off a faster lap in the E90 M3 vs the RS5 even in wet conditions. Which, seems to be the latest hang up here.

Right but that's just one data point out of many which is what fastestlaps accounts for and according to fastestlaps RS5 is faster on most tracks than the e92. I'm also faster in my rs5 than I ever was in my e92. However, Audis have to be driven in a certain way to work in conjunction with the torque vectoring otherwise they won't be fast. Many BMW drivers especially like to do trail braking and dive bomb corners, which will get you nothing but understeer in an Audi. If you use the slow-in-fast-out method, the Audi rotates very nicely.

The F8X is quite a bit faster but hey it's newer. It better be. When the next RS5 comes out I'd expect it to be faster. It's always a game of leap frog

[ss134]

The M3 has good grip in the wet when up to speed but unfortunately when tackling a tough twisty road you are constantly braking and accelerating into and out of corners. In this scenario the M3 cannot deploy it's full power, in fact if you try to apply more than half throttle in the first 4 gears you are not going anywhere fast. On roads where I live in the current conditions I am confident I would be faster in a 330d x drive. In the dry of course it is a different story but the facts are the facts - you cannot use all of the M3s power effectively in the wet- the monster torque that makes it so fast in the dry overpowers the rear tyres with ease.
As others have said - yes you can modulate the power by the throttle and make it safe to drive but you cannot use the engines full performance in the wet which means a 300hp all wheel drive car that can use it's full potential may well be faster in a lot of scenarios.
I am enjoying my F80 but I am not blind to it's flaws - a performance car that can only use it's performance in favourable conditions is not ideal. The difference between my E90 M3 in the wet and dry was not that significant- in this car the difference is huge.

[brava09]

They really should offer xdrive for M as an option. AMG just did it, RS had it forever, Porsche as well, now even Ferrari has it.

The 'purists' can have it RWD, while the others may have it AWD. I'll be all over an x drive M3 if they offered it. In fact that's the reason I jumped ships to the RS, wanted to be able to make full use of all power anytime.

[NeedleBanger]

Originally Posted by AKRAPOVICOWNS

Huh..that was wierd..he didnt like the steering but liked the sound..pretty much the oposit of other reviews

I don't like electronic steering at all, ruins a good vehicle.

[bladeomatic]

A key quote from the article:

"More than anything, I wanted the M3 to feel like its M Performance little brother - the M235i - and then some. But it just doesn’t. Actually - ignoring the fact that it’s a lot less practical - the considerably less expensive, non-M Division 235i coupe is a more compelling package that’s considerably more engaging to drive."

Couldn't agree more.
I almost sprang for an M4 earlier this year.
Can't tell you how happy I am I stuck with the M235i.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by bladeomatic

A key quote from the article:

"More than anything, I wanted the M3 to feel like its M Performance little brother - the M235i - and then some. But it just doesn’t. Actually - ignoring the fact that it’s a lot less practical - the considerably less expensive, non-M Division 235i coupe is a more compelling package that’s considerably more engaging to drive."

Couldn't agree more.
I almost sprang for an M4 earlier this year.
Can't tell you how happy I am I stuck with the M235i.

And so it starts

Yeah, uh, um... OK...

[minn19]

Originally Posted by trinim3

Right but that's just one data point out of many which is what fastestlaps accounts for and according to fastestlaps RS5 is faster on most tracks than the e92. I'm also faster in my rs5 than I ever was in my e92. However, Audis have to be driven in a certain way to work in conjunction with the torque vectoring otherwise they won't be fast. Many BMW drivers especially like to do trail braking and dive bomb corners, which will get you nothing but understeer in an Audi. If you use the slow-in-fast-out method, the Audi rotates very nicely.

The F8X is quite a bit faster but hey it's newer. It better be. When the next RS5 comes out I'd expect it to be faster. It's always a game of leap frog

Again, I don't disagree with you, but I like the Top Gear video for a few reasons. It has the same driver on the same course in pretty much identical conditions. The M3 was able to beat the RS5s laptime by a full second at its own game. Conventional wisdom would have the RS5 AWD crushing the RWD M3 in this situation.

Most of us obviously don't approach the talent level of the Stig or the often mentioned Tiff Needell. An AWD RS5 is going to be easier for the average driver to go faster in than a car like an M3. Especially in the wet conditions for numerous reasons and the big one being fear. I'm just responding to the poster saying an RS5 annihilates the M3 in all aspects, which obviously isn't true.