GetBMWParts
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Forum > M3 / M4 Photos and Videos

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-31-2014, 05:03 AM   #89
gmd2003
Colonel
gmd2003's Avatar
352
Rep
2,176
Posts

Drives: 2014 CP M6 and 2006 VT 525 Z4M
Join Date: May 2012
Location: South Carolina

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
That's bs.
100%

Pss can't handle a 10-15 minute session in 90* + weather with a decent driver in a heavy car like an m3.

The driver in the evo video says the same thing. The pss get hot and greasy and game over. Zero traction , sliding everywhere.

I swapped out to re11 and worlds of differnce, and I'm not even that fast of a driver. Not one person I've ever met tracks on pss unless it's their first time, and they are just learning and it doesn't matter what tires you use.

Extreme summers >>> max performance summers on track. No comparison.
Actually the new formulation of the PSS for the C7 vette at least can hold up on a 3450 pound car at VIR . I know Turbo and he ran consistent 2:08-2:09 on the VIR full course with the PSS on his bone stock Z51 C7 vette for the full 20 min sessions last month in the heat. His tires looked pretty good afterwards too . Michelin did change the compound for the vette and supposedly did something similar for the M4 as well . At any rate the PSS is far better than the P zero that the Porsche had so in this test don't blame the tires . It's the expected outcome of a sports car vs a DD on track . Having just purchased a new set of PSS for my daily they do seem to have significantly more grip than the originals . It's not uncommon for tire manufacturers to change compounds through time .
Appreciate 0
      07-31-2014, 05:08 AM   #90
Alpina_B3_Lux
Colonel
Alpina_B3_Lux's Avatar
263
Rep
2,564
Posts

Drives: Audi R8 LMX, BMW M550i xDrive
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Germany

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 335i  [8.90]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ign335i View Post
I disagree. Having owned PSS, ad08, Re-11, and runflats on my 335i I can say the PSS is a great street tire particularly in the rain, but it is definitely not as good as the re-11 or the ad08. Both the ad08 and re-11 are just as good as street tires, but measurably stickier than PSS.
The AD08(R) are semi-slicks. It's obvious that they're better than a street tire as they've been conceived for track use which the PSS has not. To be fair you would have to compare it to the Michelin Sport Cup tire. I wouldn't want to drive those (or the AD08) in the rain as they're more or less useless and I'd have to creep with 60 km/h on the motorway if it chucks down.
__________________
Audi R8 LMX, BMW M550i xDrive (G30 LCI); gone: Alpina B3 3,3 (E46), BMW 335i, Audi R8 V10 manual, Audi R8 V10, BMW M235i, BMW 550i F10
Appreciate 0
      07-31-2014, 05:34 AM   #91
turbo8765
Captain
61
Rep
776
Posts

Drives: very fast
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: US

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
100%

Pss can't handle a 10-15 minute session in 90* + weather with a decent driver in a heavy car like an m3.

The driver in the evo video says the same thing. The pss get hot and greasy and game over. Zero traction , sliding everywhere.

I swapped out to re11 and worlds of differnce, and I'm not even that fast of a driver. Not one person I've ever met tracks on pss unless it's their first time, and they are just learning and it doesn't matter what tires you use.

Extreme summers >>> max performance summers on track. No comparison.
What tracks do you commonly run? What were your lap time differences between the RE11 and the PSS? You might throw in lap times from other tires you've run to really educate us KP.

Also please post pyrometer tire temps post session, I'm sure you track those in your log book.

I have 14 years experience on track. You don't know what you're talking about. The latest PSS is ridiculously fast for a street tire.
Appreciate 0
      07-31-2014, 06:51 AM   #92
karussell
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
351
Rep
1,749
Posts

Drives: 4 wheels
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NorCal

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
chalk a lot of that up to shitty tires for track work in a 400whp RWD car like the m4.

PSS are not up to task for multiple laps in a powerful car like the m4.

BUT, doesn't matter that the 991 is quicker to me on a short tight track, I think the 991 is an amzing car too. plus, the feedback from the driver was great on both cars. great watch!
shitty tires? PSS I would not call them shitty under any circumstance. And most likely the carrera was running the same tires.

and the base carrera is such a great 911! truly underrated. its fast on any turn tight or not haha. The m4 is a much heavier car on narrower rubber out back. if it were equipped with say 295's rear and 275's front i wonder how it will fair. I think for the cost savings over the base 911 you can afford another set of wheels and several sets of "shitty" tires.
__________________
"It gave you amazing satisfaction, but anyone who says he loved it is either a liar or he wasn't going fast enough." - Jackie Stewart on racing at the Nurburgring
Appreciate 0
      07-31-2014, 07:29 AM   #93
MpowerLex
Banned
MpowerLex's Avatar
United_States
35
Rep
297
Posts

Drives: 2016 M3
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Oviedo, FL

iTrader: (0)

Excellent review! Like how he stated of he had more track time he could prob get the times down a bit more. This new engine is not for the timid. Very very impressed with the times!
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 0
      07-31-2014, 07:42 AM   #94
S65V8
*_*
United_States
806
Rep
3,160
Posts

Drives: ...
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA

iTrader: (10)

certainly makes the case for a base carrera and the cayman gts (since that's even more cost effective and power to weight is similar for both).
Appreciate 0
      07-31-2014, 07:44 AM   #95
Ghetto2315
Colonel
United_States
830
Rep
2,352
Posts

Drives: 16' BMW i8
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: The REAL Jersey Shore

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Love these type of videos. Kind of disappointed the M4 did not crack in to the 1:18's

Last edited by Ghetto2315; 07-31-2014 at 07:53 AM..
Appreciate 0
      07-31-2014, 07:52 AM   #96
Black Gold
Major General
590
Rep
5,396
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Texas

iTrader: (15)

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo8765 View Post
What tracks do you commonly run? What were your lap time differences between the RE11 and the PSS? You might throw in lap times from other tires you've run to really educate us KP.

Also please post pyrometer tire temps post session, I'm sure you track those in your log book.

I have 14 years experience on track. You don't know what you're talking about. The latest PSS is ridiculously fast for a street tire.
Can't find where I said I was a better driver than you, or anyone else. In fact, I specifically said I was an average driver.

I also didn't say the pss was slow. I said that in extremely hot conditions in the summer months on tws in Texas they heated up very quickly and got greasy and wore extremely quickly.

On average I picked up 2.xx seconds per lap with the re11 vs the pss. The pss were ok for the initial couple laps, but they got hot, slick and worn out quickly.

I have zero doubt you're a better driver than me. I also don't think that the evo test was unfair. I do think that the m3 is hamstrung a bit by the tires, and would he significantly better to drive on track with sticker tires that can handle heat better.

You're opinion is you're opinion, but I've never seen anyone track on pss here or compare them favorably *on track* in dry conditions to re11 or any other extreme summer. My aplogies to you if it seemed like I came on too strong, no disrespect meant.

:twocents:

Edit : anway, far off topic. Great test between two great cars. Thrilled with the feedback the m got

Last edited by Black Gold; 07-31-2014 at 08:03 AM..
Appreciate 0
      07-31-2014, 08:09 AM   #97
turbo8765
Captain
61
Rep
776
Posts

Drives: very fast
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: US

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
Can't find where I said I was a better driver than you, or anyone else. In fact, I specifically said I was an average driver.

I also didn't say the pss was slow. I said that in extremely hot conditions in the summer months on tws in Texas they heated up very quickly and got greasy and wore extremely quickly.

On average I picked up 2.xx seconds per lap with the re11 vs the pss. The pss were ok for the initial couple laps, but they got hot, slick and worn out quickly.

I have zero doubt you're a better driver than me. I also don't think that the evo test was unfair. I do think that the m3 is hamstrung a bit by the tires, and would he significantly better to drive on track with sticker tires that can handle heat better.

You're opinion is you're opinion, but I've never seen anyone track on pss here or compare them favorably *on track* in dry conditions to re11 or any other extreme summer. My aplogies to you if it seemed like I came on too strong, no disrespect meant.

:twocents:

Edit : anway, far off topic. Great test between two great cars. Thrilled with the feedback the m got
Fair enough.

The most recent PSS is way better than what came on my e92 M3. Michelin has improved the tire significantly. I agree the RE11 was better than the previous PSS.
Appreciate 0
      07-31-2014, 08:20 AM   #98
Black Gold
Major General
590
Rep
5,396
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Texas

iTrader: (15)

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo8765 View Post
Fair enough.

The most recent PSS is way better than what came on my e92 M3. Michelin has improved the tire significantly. I agree the RE11 was better than the previous PSS.
Interesting, looking forward to trying the new formulation out.

The pss I ran were from probably 2 years ago, so sounds like things have changed since then.
Appreciate 0
      07-31-2014, 10:01 AM   #99
bobski
Enlisted Member
0
Rep
34
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
If it's a base Carrera vs M4 then it's a mismatch.
Appreciate 0
      07-31-2014, 10:09 AM   #100
bradleyland
TIM YOYO
United_States
1504
Rep
3,282
Posts

Drives: 2013 M3
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Vero Beach, FL

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Year's_End View Post
A vanilla 991 also weighs less than 3,100 pounds, so it's got that going for it.
Anglesey is a brutal circuit for heavy cars. Lots of >90° turns on this circuit.
__________________
His: 2019 R1250GS - Black
Hers: 2013 X3 28i - N20 Mineral Silver / Sand Beige / Premium, Tech
Past: 2013 ///M3 - Interlagos Blue Black M-DCT
Past: 2010 135i - TiAg Coral Red 6MT ///M-Sport
Appreciate 0
      07-31-2014, 10:26 AM   #101
bradleyland
TIM YOYO
United_States
1504
Rep
3,282
Posts

Drives: 2013 M3
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Vero Beach, FL

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo8765 View Post
Fair enough.

The most recent PSS is way better than what came on my e92 M3. Michelin has improved the tire significantly. I agree the RE11 was better than the previous PSS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
Interesting, looking forward to trying the new formulation out.

The pss I ran were from probably 2 years ago, so sounds like things have changed since then.
Not to add fuel to this fire, but if you're (KP) on the Gulf Coast, and turbo8765 is in the VIR area, those are two very different climates. It's entirely possible that each of your experiences are valid and correct for your respective locations.

Horses for courses... nearly literally
__________________
His: 2019 R1250GS - Black
Hers: 2013 X3 28i - N20 Mineral Silver / Sand Beige / Premium, Tech
Past: 2013 ///M3 - Interlagos Blue Black M-DCT
Past: 2010 135i - TiAg Coral Red 6MT ///M-Sport
Appreciate 0
      07-31-2014, 10:32 AM   #102
Taskmaster
Banned
Japan
2463
Rep
9,004
Posts

Drives: M235i 6MT / E92 328 Msport 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Florida

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
Interesting, looking forward to trying the new formulation out.

The pss I ran were from probably 2 years ago, so sounds like things have changed since then.
I don't know, the PSS just seem like the Ultimate compromise to me. Until I see AutoX guys grabbing these over RS3s/RE11s/Star Spec 2s - I'm going to say it's probably not a track worthy tire.
Appreciate 0
      07-31-2014, 10:52 AM   #103
lawgone
Lieutenant
United_States
64
Rep
543
Posts

Drives: 2014 335i M Sport
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Cincinnati, OH

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BGR
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powaup View Post
I really enjoyed the feedback from Marino and I agree with him about the throttle response. It's always nice to hear a pro driver's take on a car
For a pro driver, he sure had an extremely tight grip on the wheel and seemed to be pushing with his outside hand through the corners instead of pulling with the inside. Not saying I'm anywhere near as good as him, just didn't seem like "normal" professional driving.
There's always one.
__________________
2014 335i f30 M Sport, Mineral Gray, Premium, Nav, Comfort Access, M Sport Brakes, 18" Potenza RFT Summer/Staggered
2011 328xi e92 M Sport, Space Grey, Premium, Nav, Comfort Access, BMW Apps
Appreciate 0
      07-31-2014, 11:04 AM   #104
yousefnjr
salty cowboys fan
yousefnjr's Avatar
6115
Rep
3,392
Posts

Drives: ‘06 Z4MR, ‘20 X7, ‘22 M4x
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa13 View Post
Comparisons like this are great because of course we want to see the M keep up with the Porsche. But it's simply impossible on the track in stock form.. I knew the outcome before I clicked play. I'm also sure 99% of you all knew how it would end as well.

Now, what always gets me with test like this is the price factor, what they should do it put some of money into making the M more track worthy. I know then we are talking about stock vs modded, and some of you will argue, "well then the Porsche should be modded to dick head." But, I believe that a few minor tweaks would have made this comparison AMAZING. Wider/R compound rubber all around, a stiffer suspension with some added camber, and possibly thicker sways.

The M would still come out 10k cheaper then the 911.

This those corrections are not added it wouldn't be 90:100 Porsche.. I'm sorry, hit it would be 100:100.. Inless some kind of freak accident befell the 911.

For me it's M3 all day, but I also know without a doubt that a stock 911 will spank me on the track .
LOL. How about we throw $200k in mods on a 325i and put it up against a veyron? The bimmer will come out a million cheaper!
Appreciate 0
      07-31-2014, 11:19 AM   #105
kevinlevrone
Lieutenant
261
Rep
435
Posts

Drives: 335i
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Europe

iTrader: (0)

So the bottom line is that the M4 with 0.27hp/kg gets beaten by the 911 with 0.25hp/kg by 1.4 seconds on a short track. This is not something to be proud of.
Appreciate 0
      07-31-2014, 11:24 AM   #106
i001947
Captain
i001947's Avatar
26
Rep
688
Posts

Drives: '13 E92 M3
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: US

iTrader: (0)

Let's all of us cut the BS. The issue is money. We all want more for less!

If we had the money, there would be no discussion which car we would choose.

Porsche C4S, Turbo S etc. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Appreciate 0
      07-31-2014, 12:17 PM   #107
onatuesday
Captain
157
Rep
965
Posts

Drives: Hyundai
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by i001947 View Post
Let's all of us cut the BS. The issue is money. We all want more for less!

If we had the money, there would be no discussion which car we would choose.

Porsche C4S, Turbo S etc. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
The differentiator for me to pick the M4 over the 911 has nothing to do with money and everything to do with the M4 having a usable backseat and trunk space. And I'm not sure I'd take a 911 over a Cayman GTS anyways. For the price of a 911, there are more performance oriented cars out there.

Now a 911 GT3 yes in heartbeat but that's also $160k+
Appreciate 0
      07-31-2014, 12:32 PM   #108
RingMeister01
Croatian
RingMeister01's Avatar
No_Country
880
Rep
3,613
Posts

Drives: PORSCHE
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NYC

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
That's bs.
100%

Pss can't handle a 10-15 minute session in 90* + weather with a decent driver in a heavy car like an m3.

The driver in the evo video says the same thing. The pss get hot and greasy and game over. Zero traction , sliding everywhere.

I swapped out to re11 and worlds of differnce, and I'm not even that fast of a driver. Not one person I've ever met tracks on pss unless it's their first time, and they are just learning and it doesn't matter what tires you use.

Extreme summers >>> max performance summers on track. No comparison.
+1

PSS are ok but it's the most overrated tire, IMO.

Dunlop Sport Max Race (standard on 991 GT3) are more appropriate for track duty and can be driven on street.

M4 did very well against what's considered the benchmark sports car and much more expensive.
__________________
NARDO GREY '18 PANAMERA TURBO
Ducati V4 S Corse (track only)
Husqvarna FS450 (track only)
Looking for an SUV
Appreciate 0
      07-31-2014, 12:42 PM   #109
nate340
Enlisted Member
6
Rep
40
Posts

Drives: 135i
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

I was at the track last week I spoke to a guy with an M4 and he was having throttle oversteer issues too. He's had class wins in our local time attack series and is a skilled driver on track. It shouldn't be too much trouble once people start flash tuning these cars to get a more linear throttle, it bothers me that BMW puts such aggressive throttle map on the cars in the first place just so when people test drive cars they feel excessively powerful at part throttle.
Appreciate 0
      07-31-2014, 12:51 PM   #110
pkimM3r
Banned
pkimM3r's Avatar
205
Rep
7,298
Posts

Drives: m3 saloon in granny mode.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: lost angeles

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Year's_End View Post
Really? Do they get overheated and overworked easily? I know they're not cup tires but I've only seen positive feedback on them aside from tread wear issues.
in short, they melt with any sort of track driving. Re11 or Ad08 are way better for performance.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:26 AM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST