SportAuto M4 CS against Mustang Shelby GT350

jpdchicago · 08-05-2017, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

That's a wrong assessment. Even on comparable tires, performance metrics indicate an M4 will either match or be faster than a base GT350 around a track. A GT350R is a different story though.

GT350R is still 4 seconds behind the M4 Gts on the ring. BMW still knows how to make cars...
Just way too expensive but great!

CanAutM3 · 08-05-2017, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpdchicago

GT350R is still 4 seconds behind the M4 Gts on the ring. BMW still knows how to make cars...
Just way too expensive but great!

There is no "official" clocked 'ring time for the GT350R. The infamous 7:32 time is only based off rumours...

minn19 · 08-05-2017, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpdchicago

GT350R is still 4 seconds behind the M4 Gts on the ring. BMW still knows how to make cars...
Just way too expensive but great!

But the R and many other much cheaper cars still beat the GTS on a bunch of other tracks that matter much more IMO when driven by pros. The 'Ring times are about the most useless stat when comparing cars that is used today for a number of reasons.

As usual it will come down to the driver. The M3/4 and regular GT350 are close enough in performance that there is no real clear edge IMO for either car.

I will say if they put R spec 305/315 Cup 2s on the car in this test it would be interesting to see the times it could put up.

jpdchicago · 08-05-2017, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by minn19

But the R and many other much cheaper cars still beat the GTS on a bunch of other tracks that matter much more IMO when driven by pros. The 'Ring times are about the most useless stat when comparing cars that is used today for a number of reasons.

As usual it will come down to the driver. The M3/4 and regular GT350 are close enough in performance that there is no real clear edge IMO for either car.

I will say if they put R spec 305/315 Cup 2s on the car in this test it would be interesting to see the times it could put up.

I agree the GT350R is probably one of the best track car for the money. I just could not live with all that plastic around the dash. If performance (and sound) are the only criteria, nothing beats it in terms of value IMO.
But I will stick with BMW for the overall experience and build quality. No issues in 20 years & 5 cars (3 M cars)

CanAutM3 · 09-10-2017, 02:31 PM

For those interested, Google translation of the article:

The Oktoberfest starts with us much earlier, and now: the limited BMW M4 CS with 460-PS-Biturbo meets the Mustang Shelby GT350 with 533 hp V8 high-speed naturally aspirated. Well, then times cheers

!

Thirty-five degrees, white sandy beach, a hammock, shading palms and a refreshing white beer - in which environment is it better to philosophize about dream cars? Leave the white sand beach, the hammock, the shading palm trees and the refreshing white beer away, and replace the whole with the pit lanes of Hockenheim. And what about the dream cars? Please, we will test the BMW M4 CS and the Mustang Shelby GT350.

Air conditioning deactivate, now counts every PS. Already during the photo production at sunrise shortly after 5 o'clock in the morning (thanks again to the photographer and all the contributors for this suffering ability), Hockenheim Temperatures of 26 degrees Celsius. Now, a few seconds before 5 pm, the thermometer shows Majorca-suspicious 34 degrees Celsius. While speed limits are temporarily imposed on the motorways as a result of impending heat bubbles in the asphalt, the PS duo must compete for asphalt temperatures of 55 degrees on the Small Course.

BMW M4 CS? The coming classic
At 17 o'clock, the pitot jumps to green, and the BMW M4 CS sprints in the test first on the small course. The goal of the BMW M was to close the gap between the normal M4 and the long sold out hardcore model M4 GTS. The bad news for M fans in advance: The M4 CS limited to 3,000 copies is already sold out at its market launch.

Even visually, the CS, which stands as an abbreviation for "Clubsport", has the stuff to become a future classic. And we are already dreaming of the legendary M special models of the BMW M3 E30 Sport Evolution, the M3 E36 GT or the M3 E92 CRT at the introductory stage with the M4 CS. Of course not to forget the godfather of all special models called M3 E46 CSL. However, from the standpoint, the CSL ranks rather at the level of the M4 GTS. The M4 CS, however, is, as already mentioned, positioned below the M4 GTS, or as the press release says: "Unlike the BMW M4 GTS, BMW has consciously focused on the use on the race track for the M4 CS dispensed with. "

What is that supposed to mean? Is the M4 CS like only an optically embellished normal M4 to the better sales tactics, as Audi makes it also with its R8 special models like gladly? In addition to optical subtleties such as the CS lettering, the splitter and the tailgate spoiler attachment in Sichtcarbon, the CS also carries details that indicate that it wants to be more than any optics special model. Compared to the M4 with the Competition package, the 460-horsepower six-cylinder twinturbo now has a further 10 hp. 29 HP more performance is it in the to the base M4. But that alone would not justify the exorbitant price premium of 34,800 euros in comparison to the 82,100 euro basic coupé with DKG.

Expensive but worth it
Unlike the M4 GTS, the CS does not wear full-seat seats, but the magnificent sports seats, which are also available with the Competition package. They offer the perfect compromise between Sport and everyday life. "And where should you put your arms here?", Had asked the co-driver in the M4 CS the day before. The driver's right-footed response had fallen under full load in the bassy six-cylinder concerto.

The right armrest is not exactly the same on the M4 GTS console, but also on the M4 GTS door panels with the pull-in loops and embroidered M-colors. The slightly lower everyday comforts we like the sportier, the sparse central console as well as the door linings made of pressed natural fibers reduce the weight of the M4 special model. Pressed natural fiber? So, renewable resources? Yes exactly, so "Öko" can also provide for PS fans for joy. Speaking of weight reduction - in addition to the classic version of the M4 in CFK, the M4 CS also carries a CFK rear diffuser and the CFK bonnet, which we already know from the M4 GTS.

About 25 percent lighter than a conventional M4 engine hood weight saving, still weighing 1,609 kilograms, the M4 CS is just six kilos lighter than the M4 with DKG, which came to the Supertest in 2014. The M4 GTS, which at 1.601 kilos was also not a light weight, showed how much weight reduction in the M4 is. Our wish: At least under 1.600 kilos should weigh the next M4 generation - with full tank. DSC off, steering in sport mode, damper and accelerator characteristic in sport + - we are now chasing the current M4 CS over the small course.

M4 CS conceals its weight
The round time will stop at 1.11.0 minutes in the hot conditions, nine-tenths of a second faster than the M4 with competition package. But with perfect outside temperatures a deep 1.10 or a high 1.09er-Rundzeiteit with the CS is possible. However, today's round-trip is somehow secondary. Even if in the cockpit with deactivated one-zone air conditioner now dominate over 40 degrees and one would lie in the bathing trunk along with free upper body the lap times, the rear derailleur is worth every welding drops.

Point precision, and precisely control the boundary area with very light performance control under load - the CS driving behavior is just the right mix between "fast" and "fun". Or something else: it is this typical M-driving behavior, which is why we simply have to love the former M3 and today's M4 models - not too neutral and digital, as many other sports cars are tuned these days. The tuning of the chassis is largely similar to that of the set-up with a competition package, but - just like the precise, electromechanical adaptive steering with three separately selectable characteristics, the differential lock and the ABS - have been specially adapted to the M4 CS. Above all, the ABS vote fits very well on the small course to another CS novelty - the Cup tire of the type Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 on the new CS forging wheels.

Stunning how late you can brake with the CS in the turn. Since you forget smoothly that he is an over-1.6 tonner. The Dreiliter-Biturbo is one of the best turbo engines currently. It scores with its easy-to-measure gas intake and its even performance over the entire speed range up to the maximum speed of 7.600 / min. Unlike the AMG or Porsche, the DKG does not switch up and down autonomously on the race track in the border area, but also asks for automatic intervention in manual mode. Perhaps the last tenth of the DKG vote is to be found in the border area. Honestly, however, it is also fun to observe the switching lamps and then still determine the switching time automatically.

Grandios: V8 plus hand switch
You are driving on your own? Then the upgrade to the M4 CS is the Mustang Shelby GT350. What unemotional controller has unpacked the red pencil here and decided that the car does not officially come to Europe? Fortunately, there is importer Geigercars, who still drives us to the wildest wild horse. Compared to the US price (54.845 US dollar), the Shelby with 79.900 euro is then significantly more expensive, but you do not have to worry about the whole import trade itself. And: The Shelby is a real bargain compared to the M4 CS, because it is only slightly above the basic price of a basic M4 with hand switch (from 78,200 euros). Shelby start button, zack, in love!

The flat-plan V8 engine with its 5.2-liter displacement and 533 hp, you will be able to enjoy the power of a turbocharged engine - the purity of the sound. And when the valve exhaust system is set to the "Sport" mode in the menu, it has happened to you. Suddenly you realize that you have the sound of the M4 just talked nice. And so far we have only talked about stand gas. Get out of the pit lane, the first time full load. He turns and spins and turns - at 8,250 tours, the V8 finale of the metallic-hammering full-load spectacle waits and the limiter starts.

The Shelby is celebrating itself with an emotional exhaust whistle. Okay, the latter can also the exhaust system of the M4 CS, only with her you realize that it was artificially trained. Clack, clack, clack, when you love the second time in the Shelby? During the first switching operations. Unlike the M4 CS available only with DKG, there is the Mustang Shelby GT350 with hand switch. The Corvette is the perfect choice for the precise guidance and fast switching of the Shelby six-speed transmission - so a hand switch must work.

And right now the point is reached, I have to be honest. Pony car disciples and Mustang fans, you will probably hate me, but I will not praise the Shelby any further because others have celebrated it before. The normal Mustang I found - with four-cylinder as well as with eight-cylinder - class, but rarely a vehicle has lately disappointed me as the Shelby GT350. Out on the street, the ami and me were still in good shape. But as soon as you drive the Shelby directly into the race track after an M4 CS, you are frightened.

Shelby GT350 does not like the heat
How does the difference feel? Here the sniper rifle, there arrow and bow. After the euphoric single test of my esteemed colleague Helmreich, I had promised myself much more. Most likely, everything is due to the extreme heat with which the Shelby has to fight in Hockenheim. The fact that the oxygen content at 35 degrees is significantly lower today than at the last editorial visit at measuring conditions of 11 degrees Celsius, explains the now much poorer longitudinal dynamics. Instead of 4.9 and 14.5 seconds, the hardcore Mustang now takes 5.1 or 15.6 seconds for the sprint from zero over the top speed of 100 and 200 km / h.

The elasticity values are also worse off the bench than the Shelby single test. Despite the better power-to-weight ratio, the Shelby (3.2 kg / hp) does not give the M4 CS (3.5 kg / hp) a chance. In the case of roundness, the poorer longitudinal dynamics are clearly noticeable compared to the Shelby test car in issue 5/2016. Despite almost the same curve speed in the South Voyage as in the single test, the GT350 today misses five km / h topspeed on the start-finish straight.

And then there is still the issue of brake. In the standard brake measurement, the Shelby had to fight for the ten consecutive bikes from 100 km / h to zero with noticeably longer pedal and fading of its Brembo brake system. This is anything but an intoxicating result: a braking distance of 37.3 meters from 100 km / h. After cooling, the Brembo brake recovered again, but during the fast lap, the Shelby brake still fell uncomfortably: Compared to the perfectly adjustable brake pedal of the M4 CS, the Ami shows an extremely hardened brake pedal when braking in the border area. On the attempt to re-brake the same as with the M4 CS in the curve, the Shelby GT350 pushes bluntly over the front axle.

But even if you set the braking points with the Pony Car earlier, a noticeable steering of the steering wheel is noticeable. Already on the first lap the Michelin pilot super sports tires overheat and capitulate under the front axle load as well as the glowing asphalt temperatures. The driving behavior becomes more undefined from curve to curve. Sometimes the Shelby defends himself with power overruns against the crushing defeat, sometimes with sudden performance overloading. And the more you fight, the more you realize how hopeless today is the fight for the Shelby against the M4 CS. Perhaps we should have the white sand beach, the hammock and the palm trees as well as the white beer. The M4 CS, but above all the Mustang Shelby GT350 in the Hockenheim heaters, did not have any real potential.

Conclusion
That the pack for the Mustang Shelby GT350 is so crass, so I would not have expected. The idea of this comparison test was a simple calculation. For the price of a basic M4 with hand switch, you can also buy the Shelby at Geigercars in Munich. With his performance weight he did not seem to be without a chance against the BMW M4 CS on the paper. In view of the extremely high outside temperatures, the Shelby could not fully develop its potential.

To fight effectively against the M4 CS, one would probably have had to take the rare GT350R with cup rubbing. Even with normal outside temperatures, the normal GT350 would have had a lot against the M special model. For me, the CS is the most rounded M4. Not so overmotivated as the M4 GTS, but with the certain something compared to the normal M4. Yes, the price is very high, but the M4 CS has good chances to become a value-stable classic in the future.

No Boost · 09-10-2017, 07:26 PM

There appears to be some confidence that particular model should hold its value rather well. For this reason, I don't think the speculated $100k USD is over-the-top. If I were in the market for a high performance coupe at that price, I'd probably jump on it. It's a given that it's going to be like the ZCP kicked up a couple of notches, which itself, is winning a ton of comparos lately. Odds are, the CS will be a future classic.

09-10-2017, 02:31 PM	#115
CanAutM3 General 21117 Rep 20,741 Posts Drives: 2021 911 turbo Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Montreal iTrader: (1) Garage List 2022 Audi RS6 [10.00] 2021 Porsche 911 turbo [10.00]	For those interested, Google translation of the article: The Oktoberfest starts with us much earlier, and now: the limited BMW M4 CS with 460-PS-Biturbo meets the Mustang Shelby GT350 with 533 hp V8 high-speed naturally aspirated. Well, then times cheers ! Thirty-five degrees, white sandy beach, a hammock, shading palms and a refreshing white beer - in which environment is it better to philosophize about dream cars? Leave the white sand beach, the hammock, the shading palm trees and the refreshing white beer away, and replace the whole with the pit lanes of Hockenheim. And what about the dream cars? Please, we will test the BMW M4 CS and the Mustang Shelby GT350. Air conditioning deactivate, now counts every PS. Already during the photo production at sunrise shortly after 5 o'clock in the morning (thanks again to the photographer and all the contributors for this suffering ability), Hockenheim Temperatures of 26 degrees Celsius. Now, a few seconds before 5 pm, the thermometer shows Majorca-suspicious 34 degrees Celsius. While speed limits are temporarily imposed on the motorways as a result of impending heat bubbles in the asphalt, the PS duo must compete for asphalt temperatures of 55 degrees on the Small Course. BMW M4 CS? The coming classic At 17 o'clock, the pitot jumps to green, and the BMW M4 CS sprints in the test first on the small course. The goal of the BMW M was to close the gap between the normal M4 and the long sold out hardcore model M4 GTS. The bad news for M fans in advance: The M4 CS limited to 3,000 copies is already sold out at its market launch. Even visually, the CS, which stands as an abbreviation for "Clubsport", has the stuff to become a future classic. And we are already dreaming of the legendary M special models of the BMW M3 E30 Sport Evolution, the M3 E36 GT or the M3 E92 CRT at the introductory stage with the M4 CS. Of course not to forget the godfather of all special models called M3 E46 CSL. However, from the standpoint, the CSL ranks rather at the level of the M4 GTS. The M4 CS, however, is, as already mentioned, positioned below the M4 GTS, or as the press release says: "Unlike the BMW M4 GTS, BMW has consciously focused on the use on the race track for the M4 CS dispensed with. " What is that supposed to mean? Is the M4 CS like only an optically embellished normal M4 to the better sales tactics, as Audi makes it also with its R8 special models like gladly? In addition to optical subtleties such as the CS lettering, the splitter and the tailgate spoiler attachment in Sichtcarbon, the CS also carries details that indicate that it wants to be more than any optics special model. Compared to the M4 with the Competition package, the 460-horsepower six-cylinder twinturbo now has a further 10 hp. 29 HP more performance is it in the to the base M4. But that alone would not justify the exorbitant price premium of 34,800 euros in comparison to the 82,100 euro basic coupé with DKG. Expensive but worth it Unlike the M4 GTS, the CS does not wear full-seat seats, but the magnificent sports seats, which are also available with the Competition package. They offer the perfect compromise between Sport and everyday life. "And where should you put your arms here?", Had asked the co-driver in the M4 CS the day before. The driver's right-footed response had fallen under full load in the bassy six-cylinder concerto. The right armrest is not exactly the same on the M4 GTS console, but also on the M4 GTS door panels with the pull-in loops and embroidered M-colors. The slightly lower everyday comforts we like the sportier, the sparse central console as well as the door linings made of pressed natural fibers reduce the weight of the M4 special model. Pressed natural fiber? So, renewable resources? Yes exactly, so "Öko" can also provide for PS fans for joy. Speaking of weight reduction - in addition to the classic version of the M4 in CFK, the M4 CS also carries a CFK rear diffuser and the CFK bonnet, which we already know from the M4 GTS. About 25 percent lighter than a conventional M4 engine hood weight saving, still weighing 1,609 kilograms, the M4 CS is just six kilos lighter than the M4 with DKG, which came to the Supertest in 2014. The M4 GTS, which at 1.601 kilos was also not a light weight, showed how much weight reduction in the M4 is. Our wish: At least under 1.600 kilos should weigh the next M4 generation - with full tank. DSC off, steering in sport mode, damper and accelerator characteristic in sport + - we are now chasing the current M4 CS over the small course. M4 CS conceals its weight The round time will stop at 1.11.0 minutes in the hot conditions, nine-tenths of a second faster than the M4 with competition package. But with perfect outside temperatures a deep 1.10 or a high 1.09er-Rundzeiteit with the CS is possible. However, today's round-trip is somehow secondary. Even if in the cockpit with deactivated one-zone air conditioner now dominate over 40 degrees and one would lie in the bathing trunk along with free upper body the lap times, the rear derailleur is worth every welding drops. Point precision, and precisely control the boundary area with very light performance control under load - the CS driving behavior is just the right mix between "fast" and "fun". Or something else: it is this typical M-driving behavior, which is why we simply have to love the former M3 and today's M4 models - not too neutral and digital, as many other sports cars are tuned these days. The tuning of the chassis is largely similar to that of the set-up with a competition package, but - just like the precise, electromechanical adaptive steering with three separately selectable characteristics, the differential lock and the ABS - have been specially adapted to the M4 CS. Above all, the ABS vote fits very well on the small course to another CS novelty - the Cup tire of the type Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 on the new CS forging wheels. Stunning how late you can brake with the CS in the turn. Since you forget smoothly that he is an over-1.6 tonner. The Dreiliter-Biturbo is one of the best turbo engines currently. It scores with its easy-to-measure gas intake and its even performance over the entire speed range up to the maximum speed of 7.600 / min. Unlike the AMG or Porsche, the DKG does not switch up and down autonomously on the race track in the border area, but also asks for automatic intervention in manual mode. Perhaps the last tenth of the DKG vote is to be found in the border area. Honestly, however, it is also fun to observe the switching lamps and then still determine the switching time automatically. Grandios: V8 plus hand switch You are driving on your own? Then the upgrade to the M4 CS is the Mustang Shelby GT350. What unemotional controller has unpacked the red pencil here and decided that the car does not officially come to Europe? Fortunately, there is importer Geigercars, who still drives us to the wildest wild horse. Compared to the US price (54.845 US dollar), the Shelby with 79.900 euro is then significantly more expensive, but you do not have to worry about the whole import trade itself. And: The Shelby is a real bargain compared to the M4 CS, because it is only slightly above the basic price of a basic M4 with hand switch (from 78,200 euros). Shelby start button, zack, in love! The flat-plan V8 engine with its 5.2-liter displacement and 533 hp, you will be able to enjoy the power of a turbocharged engine - the purity of the sound. And when the valve exhaust system is set to the "Sport" mode in the menu, it has happened to you. Suddenly you realize that you have the sound of the M4 just talked nice. And so far we have only talked about stand gas. Get out of the pit lane, the first time full load. He turns and spins and turns - at 8,250 tours, the V8 finale of the metallic-hammering full-load spectacle waits and the limiter starts. The Shelby is celebrating itself with an emotional exhaust whistle. Okay, the latter can also the exhaust system of the M4 CS, only with her you realize that it was artificially trained. Clack, clack, clack, when you love the second time in the Shelby? During the first switching operations. Unlike the M4 CS available only with DKG, there is the Mustang Shelby GT350 with hand switch. The Corvette is the perfect choice for the precise guidance and fast switching of the Shelby six-speed transmission - so a hand switch must work. And right now the point is reached, I have to be honest. Pony car disciples and Mustang fans, you will probably hate me, but I will not praise the Shelby any further because others have celebrated it before. The normal Mustang I found - with four-cylinder as well as with eight-cylinder - class, but rarely a vehicle has lately disappointed me as the Shelby GT350. Out on the street, the ami and me were still in good shape. But as soon as you drive the Shelby directly into the race track after an M4 CS, you are frightened. Shelby GT350 does not like the heat How does the difference feel? Here the sniper rifle, there arrow and bow. After the euphoric single test of my esteemed colleague Helmreich, I had promised myself much more. Most likely, everything is due to the extreme heat with which the Shelby has to fight in Hockenheim. The fact that the oxygen content at 35 degrees is significantly lower today than at the last editorial visit at measuring conditions of 11 degrees Celsius, explains the now much poorer longitudinal dynamics. Instead of 4.9 and 14.5 seconds, the hardcore Mustang now takes 5.1 or 15.6 seconds for the sprint from zero over the top speed of 100 and 200 km / h. The elasticity values are also worse off the bench than the Shelby single test. Despite the better power-to-weight ratio, the Shelby (3.2 kg / hp) does not give the M4 CS (3.5 kg / hp) a chance. In the case of roundness, the poorer longitudinal dynamics are clearly noticeable compared to the Shelby test car in issue 5/2016. Despite almost the same curve speed in the South Voyage as in the single test, the GT350 today misses five km / h topspeed on the start-finish straight. And then there is still the issue of brake. In the standard brake measurement, the Shelby had to fight for the ten consecutive bikes from 100 km / h to zero with noticeably longer pedal and fading of its Brembo brake system. This is anything but an intoxicating result: a braking distance of 37.3 meters from 100 km / h. After cooling, the Brembo brake recovered again, but during the fast lap, the Shelby brake still fell uncomfortably: Compared to the perfectly adjustable brake pedal of the M4 CS, the Ami shows an extremely hardened brake pedal when braking in the border area. On the attempt to re-brake the same as with the M4 CS in the curve, the Shelby GT350 pushes bluntly over the front axle. But even if you set the braking points with the Pony Car earlier, a noticeable steering of the steering wheel is noticeable. Already on the first lap the Michelin pilot super sports tires overheat and capitulate under the front axle load as well as the glowing asphalt temperatures. The driving behavior becomes more undefined from curve to curve. Sometimes the Shelby defends himself with power overruns against the crushing defeat, sometimes with sudden performance overloading. And the more you fight, the more you realize how hopeless today is the fight for the Shelby against the M4 CS. Perhaps we should have the white sand beach, the hammock and the palm trees as well as the white beer. The M4 CS, but above all the Mustang Shelby GT350 in the Hockenheim heaters, did not have any real potential. Conclusion That the pack for the Mustang Shelby GT350 is so crass, so I would not have expected. The idea of this comparison test was a simple calculation. For the price of a basic M4 with hand switch, you can also buy the Shelby at Geigercars in Munich. With his performance weight he did not seem to be without a chance against the BMW M4 CS on the paper. In view of the extremely high outside temperatures, the Shelby could not fully develop its potential. To fight effectively against the M4 CS, one would probably have had to take the rare GT350R with cup rubbing. Even with normal outside temperatures, the normal GT350 would have had a lot against the M special model. For me, the CS is the most rounded M4. Not so overmotivated as the M4 GTS, but with the certain something compared to the normal M4. Yes, the price is very high, but the M4 CS has good chances to become a value-stable classic in the future. __________________ Porsche 911 turbo 2021 992 GT Silver Previous cars: M4cs 2019 F82 Limerock Grey / M4 2015 F82 Silverstone / M3 2008 E92 Silverstone / M3 2002 E46 Carbon Black Last edited by CanAutM3; 09-10-2017 at 05:08 PM..
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09-10-2017, 07:26 PM	#116
No Boost enthusiasm > practicality 4021 Rep 2,247 Posts Drives: 987 CS \| G35x Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Chester County, PA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2007 987.1 Cayman S [10.00] 2008 Infiniti G35x ... [0.00]	There appears to be some confidence that particular model should hold its value rather well. For this reason, I don't think the speculated $100k USD is over-the-top. If I were in the market for a high performance coupe at that price, I'd probably jump on it. It's a given that it's going to be like the ZCP kicked up a couple of notches, which itself, is winning a ton of comparos lately. Odds are, the CS will be a future classic. __________________ FSI 3.8L Stg II\|6MT\|SOUL\|IPD+GT3 TB\|Numeric Racing\|KW\|Tarett\|Rennline\|Raceseng\|APEX\|Recaro\|7.3 lb/hp VQ35HR\|5AT\|Stillen\|FI\|UpRev tune 8k rpm\|TransGo\|Hotchkis\|Whiteline\|H&R\|Z1\|Corbeau\|R1 Concepts\|10 lb/hp Left lane campers, GTFO!
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