M4 GTS Tested by Jeremy Clarkson on The Grand Tour

[Captain Unknown GT4]

Well, here is somthing for you to catch up on. It seems there are more than 2 who manage.

here

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1334032

Its a race car driver that seems get it up to decent speed, he happend to also describe the GTS that it feels like a real race car. It seems GTS was also a future Classic and best track car in the groupe.

Whatever, you seems not to understand that its very easy to set up this car between the 2 tested BMW factory settings. It only take 30min to 1h for anybody, but lets not forget the average car mag guy need to put more in to stage a nice photo shoot and what not for you keep buying. Hence thats more importent to some magz than find the real performance out of car. Some do this better than other. Sport auto been setting supertest laps on the ring for 18years, they are not in to big fancy productions like motortrend and what not. They get real fact on cars performance.

Originally Posted by Nkc

I'd say close to nothing significant.......BUT..... if you set it all up right like its life depended on it, it suddenly becomes magical. Unfortunately, no one other than the maybe 1 or 2 setup gods on this forum knows this magical way.

[Captain Unknown GT4]

Here is a a god exampel of an other test.

[swagon]

Do you work for BMW in the M GmbH marketing department? This is getting a bit ridiculous.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Captain Unknown GT4

Was that the best you could pull out��

And some day you start driving a GTS rather than just nail you face to the magazine you might get it?

Well, you're the one constantly posting magazine articles. Not me...

I post technical explanations that you just keep ignoring. One does not need to drive a car to be able to make sound engineering deductions.

Originally Posted by Captain Unknown GT4

You have no comment on the aero sport auto pic. I put out?

That part that vanila M4 produce plenty of lift and not downforce. That GTS in street mode aero setting is not producing downforce. But at Max aero track setting it very much do produce downforce. So we dont need to be a nuclear scientist to see the lack of laptimes and people feel GTS slippery and twitcy.........well could that be due to them drive it in steetmode-where it produce near to no downforce?

Thats very much the case!

OK, let's use those numbers. So comparing 52kg total downforce (12kg front + 40kg rear) at max settings at 200km/h vs using your above assumption of neutral lift/downforce for the min setting on a 1600kg GTS (that includes a driver because you need one to go around a track) yields ~3% more grip at 200km/h (1652/1600). At 100km/h the advantage of max aero over min aero becomes less than 1% in total grip. If you really believe that 1~3% in grip makes that much difference there is a placebo effect going-on.

Don't get me wrong (again). I am not saying the aero on the GTS is useless. I do however believe that the GTS is a total package, where each individual upgraded component (aero, springs, shocks, revised suspension geometry, stickier tires, wider wheels, etc...) work together and incrementally contribute to the overall gain in performance. But saying that just changing the aero setting makes or breaks the car's handling, I call

[Nkc]

Originally Posted by swagon

Do you work for BMW in the M GmbH marketing department? This is getting a bit ridiculous.

Of course he doesn't. Even BMW wouldn't even try to defend this car.

[AW BMW]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

This thread has gotten ridiculous!!!

I agree completely about the thread, the car is highly controversial but I see some people here are hating on the car like if BMW personally did something against the haters themselves.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by AW BMW

I agree completely about the thread, the car is highly controversial but I see some people here are hating on the car like if BMW personally did something against the haters themselves.

Yep. Like the post above yours. Ridiculous

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

Yep. Like the post above yours. Ridiculous

And there are others that defend the car with irrational fanboyism

This car is clearly very polarizing

[Bimmed Out]

Originally Posted by Nkc

Of course he doesn't. Even BMW wouldn't even try to defend this car.

Originally Posted by AW BMW

I see some people here are hating on the car like if BMW personally did something against the haters themselves.

Cough.

[Phatcat]

Journalists who can't drive vs biased owner, I love it.

I am impressed with that Jaguar though, barely slower than the GTS and quicker than the Nissan GTR. Yes it's got power but Jag not known for handling.

[IS3andME]

Originally Posted by Captain Unknown GT4

Here is a a god exampel of an other test.

Car and Driver Lightning Lap at VIR. Look at the Mustang GT350R lap time and the Corvette Grand Sport vs. the M4 GTS.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...d-more-feature

[VCP]

Originally Posted by IS3andME

Car and Driver Lightning Lap at VIR. Look at the Mustang GT350R lap time and the Corvette Grand Sport vs. the M4 GTS.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...d-more-feature

Thanks for the update

[jml]

Finally got to drive one yesterday, wow. Just wow. I think the challenge is that it's a very narrow bandwidth car. It is one of the most thrilling cars I've driven, right up there with the greats like the 430 Scud and 997.2RS - but the problem is that people expect mercedes-like street manners, which is just not going to happen when you have this level of focused tuning on a platform that was not designed to have a wide bandwidth like the R8 or 911. It's one of the best track cars you can buy for around 100k right now, maybe not the fastest (I think I could keep up with my X5M...but then I can keep up with pretty much anything out there with 700hp on tap), but it is by far one of the most rewarding to drive and learn from - much like the 997.2 RS. i think if you've loved the 997, this is a car that will keep scratching that itch.

Why do people gravitate towards the 1M, Scud, 997RS....it's because they have character and have a level of deep found fun that is addictive. They are not the fastest cars out there...nor did they win car of the year awards across the board, nor are they universally loved, but all are selling for beyond original MSRP.

[Captain Unknown GT4]

Sure, you must drive the car to fully understand whats happen. You sitt in the garage doing excel dok, thats what you do accually and by that you hardly could relate to all them tests as we who driven the car can!
So on that part We are not on the same level. On the other hand we agre that its the total everything as you mention that make GTS the GTS.

Still when no clu Clarkson drive a track Orienten GTS around a track in street mode where it give no accual aero at all, and also drive high street setting in chassie..well its not that strange he feel no GTS, its not. When ever you test these things for your self you will understand. Clarkson would as well if he bother to see to it that cars was set for track work.

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Well, you're the one constantly posting magazine articles. Not me...

I post technical explanations that you just keep ignoring. One does not need to drive a car to be able to make sound engineering deductions.



OK, let's use those numbers. So comparing 52kg total downforce (12kg front + 40kg rear) at max settings at 200km/h vs using your above assumption of neutral lift/downforce for the min setting on a 1600kg GTS (that includes a driver because you need one to go around a track) yields ~3% more grip at 200km/h (1652/1600). At 100km/h the advantage of max aero over min aero becomes less than 1% in total grip. If you really believe that 1~3% in grip makes that much difference there is a placebo effect going-on.

Don't get me wrong (again). I am not saying the aero on the GTS is useless. I do however believe that the GTS is a total package, where each individual upgraded component (aero, springs, shocks, revised suspension geometry, stickier tires, wider wheels, etc...) work together and incrementally contribute to the overall gain in performance. But saying that just changing the aero setting makes or breaks the car's handling, I call

[Captain Unknown GT4]

Thanks for that feedback!
Did you by any chance test it in low down tracksetting and full aero. Its somthing special for sure.

Originally Posted by jml

Finally got to drive one yesterday, wow. Just wow. I think the challenge is that it's a very narrow bandwidth car. It is one of the most thrilling cars I've driven, right up there with the greats like the 430 Scud and 997.2RS - but the problem is that people expect mercedes-like street manners, which is just not going to happen when you have this level of focused tuning on a platform that was not designed to have a wide bandwidth like the R8 or 911. It's one of the best track cars you can buy for around 100k right now, maybe not the fastest (I think I could keep up with my X5M...but then I can keep up with pretty much anything out there with 700hp on tap), but it is by far one of the most rewarding to drive and learn from - much like the 997.2 RS. i think if you've loved the 997, this is a car that will keep scratching that itch.

Why do people gravitate towards the 1M, Scud, 997RS....it's because they have character and have a level of deep found fun that is addictive. They are not the fastest cars out there...nor did they win car of the year awards across the board, nor are they universally loved, but all are selling for beyond original MSRP.

[Captain Unknown GT4]

Thanks, is this same drive laping al cars?

Sport auto use same race car driver Christian on al these test.
GTS totaly out lap supercar Honda NSX.(GTS 1.09.06)

Originally Posted by IS3andME

Car and Driver Lightning Lap at VIR. Look at the Mustang GT350R lap time and the Corvette Grand Sport vs. the M4 GTS.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...d-more-feature

[Captain Unknown GT4]

Oh well, whe post that super high dollar 911R at 1381kg full fuel as tested just for fun. Yes 911R is 64l fuel tank( GTS 1601kg full 60L fuel as tested)



That Clarkson is no the real driver anyway. Moore show than accual go, I guess thats why he left out the laptimes anyway.

[Captain Unknown GT4]

Almost forget, as a reminder to the overal heat issu the day GTS was driven by sport auto on Nur. As we see here it was 30 degrees(tarmac was 34 degrees) in the shade, wich have effect on the 2X turbo GTS. Still 7.37min under those temp is not bad. BMW drove it 7.28min at early morning at 7-13 degrees as I recal. More optimal for sure.

[jml]

Originally Posted by Captain Unknown GT4

Thanks for that feedback!
Did you by any chance test it in low down tracksetting and full aero. Its somthing special for sure.

It was at a private day at a local track here in Austin. The owner was not sure about the suspension setup, but it had "full aero" - which I could definitely feel in T2 and T17-18.

[Captain Unknown GT4]

Thanks! Hope you get a chance to test it also on low down tracksetting. (If it was not alredy lowdown) It Is very tranformed as camber and toe etc. gets to an overall more aggressive stance in that drop to low setting. Aswell it will not pitch and roll like it can in high street setup.

Then again It might just been at that setting as your impressions is very much like mine in terms how fun car is.

Originally Posted by jml

It was at a private day at a local track here in Austin. The owner was not sure about the suspension setup, but it had "full aero" - which I could definitely feel in T2 and T17-18.

[Captain Unknown GT4]

So, here is a little somthing for that excel guy. Now just think of it will you, here you have aero on 991 GT3 RS, at full swing it give 345kg overall downforce.


In 200km/h you see the nr. right? Now lets prettend you take AWAY all this aero effect on RS, would you really belive It would put down the same laptimes, or feeling of secureity in the lap? You can get rid of that excel sheet of yours, out and drive and you will know you could not get same laptimes or feeling if no aero on.

In regards off GTS, if its set in street mode on all aero it give almost no downforce. Hence you experience a whole other thing vs full aero.

If it made no difference as you say, It would not be possible to adjust it. Its there to provide a difference and it does. And GTS iS build to meet entusiasts who dont mind this. To set it right, it part of the experience we like, you know like driving a racecar, it need attention. Its not for everybody, but us few!

In most other cars, eventually you need to adjust to the car. In GTS you could adjust the car to your preferd driverstyle!

When we say lowdown tracksetting we talk about BMW track setting and they also have high street setting(it only for street and long Nurburgring, nothing else) 2 default setting wich the ractrack instruction book tell how to sett, easy with all click etc. on rebound and compression and how to lower it down.

The average Clarkson would never bother...

Other than that you could drop it even lower and adjust what ever to your liking.
Just in the same way you can in new MB AMG GT-R


991 GT3 RS aero nr.



GTS aero nr.

Put it in street and it hardly give any aero effect. Aswell see M4 aero, it do not provide downforce, it provide lift on bothe front and rear axle. If the aero was just not adding anything why on earth put it on. Just let it be as your average M4.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Captain Unknown GT4

Sure, you must drive the car to fully understand whats happen. You sitt in the garage doing excel dok, thats what you do accually and by that you hardly could relate to all them tests as we who driven the car can!
So on that part We are not on the same level. On the other hand we agre that its the total everything as you mention that make GTS the GTS.

Still when no clu Clarkson drive a track Orienten GTS around a track in street mode where it give no accual aero at all, and also drive high street setting in chassie..well its not that strange he feel no GTS, its not. When ever you test these things for your self you will understand. Clarkson would as well if he bother to see to it that cars was set for track work.

Seriously Captain, you are definitely the most extreme fanboy troll I've come across in a long time