Rolled 46,000 miles today, first problem

garrettdeb · 02-15-2017, 01:03 PM

So first off I have scheduled a service appointment and will update following.

My situation is this - I'm fairly certain that either my analog temperature gauge in the instrument cluster is not reading correctly or I have another issue.

I think that in just a few minutes, 10 or so, my car used to (i.e. just a few days ago) warm to 250 degrees - 12 o'clock - on the gauge. I live in Boston so the time to reach operating temperature will vary by a few minutes depending on the wide range of temperatures we experience.

Today after driving for almost 40 minutes the gauge registered 230 - I'm not sure if this topped out or if it would have kept going with a longer drive. I would say that it took at least 20 minutes for it to move off the lower limit stop.

Interestingly the LEDs for tachometer behave as they always have - when the engine is cold there is a lower limit for red-line and it increases to the max red-line in the same amount of time it has since new.

My question: Can you confirm your typical operating temperature is 250 degrees after warmup, and how long does it take to reach it?

Thanks,
Garrett

frankiebones · 02-15-2017, 01:05 PM

What throttle setting are you referring to? I am 220 in Sport + after warm up.

Naz24 · 02-15-2017, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankiebones

What throttle setting are you referring to? I am 220 in Sport + after warm up.

+1.

Sport + has extra cooling to the engine, this feels normal to me.

Its also been quite cold around the northeast lately

garrettdeb · 02-15-2017, 01:28 PM

Economy throttle setting

shiv.nandak · 02-15-2017, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naz24

+1.

Sport + has extra cooling to the engine, this feels normal to me.

Its also been quite cold around the northeast lately

He did say that it took 20 mins for the needle to even move off the lower limit. Thats not normal.

garrettdeb · 02-15-2017, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankiebones

What throttle setting are you referring to? I am 220 in Sport + after warm up.

How long does warmup take?

G35POPPEDMYCHERRY · 02-15-2017, 01:32 PM

MINE NEVER goes to the middle. always the notch before

garrettdeb · 02-15-2017, 01:37 PM

I appreciate the feedback, perhaps I am mistaken that it ever reached the middle - 250. I still do think it is taking (or at least appearing to take) an excessive amount of time to reach operating temperature. I will set a timer on my next drive and record the intervals from the point it moves off the lower limit, reaches the first interval (which is I think 190) and the point it reaches the second interval (which I think is 220).

DocWeatherington · 02-15-2017, 02:32 PM

I will concur with others depending on the throttle settings the motor runs at different oil temps up to about 60 degrees of change. Additionally, I have noticed the warm up times very according to outside temps. I wouldn't be shocked if its will run hot just to run hot, and do slow warm ups for a system/reliability test. Cold temps equal performance hot equals MPGs up to a certain point.

Has it throw any codes? The temp it appears can vary a lot. I would just take it in to see, but its unlikely you have an issue. But better staff than sorry.

See this link below, its a common concern.
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1025229

Also I think this common among the BMW M, and maybe even the standard lineup.

Note Post# 16: " I made a discovery today that i hadn't previously realized. I normally drive in Sport throttle and Sport Plus Steering. Well I decided to spend some time in Sport Plus throttle. The thing is I have a MPE Steering Wheel II with race display and normally leave the engine temp display on while the car warms up. The only thing is I noticed on normal application the engine was quite some amount lower than normal. It was clear the cooling systems were firing away in Sport Plus mode. I normally find in sport mode the engine water/oil temps reached and then maintains about 106-109c (223-228F). Today they stayed around the 84C/93C (183F/199F) in Sport Plus. To test this further I switched to Sport Plus from Sport and the water temp dropped fast from about 228F to 200F in about 45 seconds. " Jimjamz

IcebergM4 · 02-15-2017, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G35POPPEDMYCHERRY

MINE NEVER goes to the middle. always the notch before

+1, even lower now in all settings since I got my AWE heat exchanger installed.

RowanBuds · 02-15-2017, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G35POPPEDMYCHERRY

MINE NEVER goes to the middle. always the notch before

Same here, sometimes a hair above that, and a little below in Sport +

MaX PL · 02-15-2017, 08:22 PM

One other thing Ive found is that in the summer, Sport+ runs at a constant 190 and in the winter, it seems to run a bit warmer as the secondary cooler likely doesn't come on as its cold outside.

I run 250 in efficient and sport regardless of time of year.

paliknight · 02-15-2017, 10:23 PM

I know when its super cold out the car will take over 20 minutes to warm up unless i do some highway driving.

TurboM · 02-15-2017, 11:51 PM

You guys are seriously paranoid.

Under normal conditions (economy, comfort, etc.) the motor (coolant) will aim to run between 200-250 degrees. Switching to sport+ mode will engage the thermostat a bit more aggressively and will try to keep the motor a bit cooler under the assumption that you will be pushing it closer to its limits. That being said you'll see coolant temps closer to 180-210 degrees. Cooler doesn't always mean better either, 220 is perfectly fine for this, or any, motor. Key number here is the oil temp, not coolant.

SakhirM4 · 02-16-2017, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurboM

You guys are seriously paranoid.

Under normal conditions (economy, comfort, etc.) the motor (coolant) will aim to run between 200-250 degrees. Switching to sport+ mode will engage the thermostat a bit more aggressively and will try to keep the motor a bit cooler under the assumption that you will be pushing it closer to its limits. That being said you'll see coolant temps closer to 180-210 degrees. Cooler doesn't always mean better either, 220 is perfectly fine for this, or any, motor. Key number here is the oil temp, not coolant.

The gauge in the M4/M3 is for oil temp, not coolant.

G35POPPEDMYCHERRY · 02-16-2017, 01:13 AM

damn pretty sure if you hit 250 you got something worng. i drove that shit in 100 degree weather and whipped it and didnt hit 250

JoeFromPA · 02-16-2017, 08:38 AM

Edited: Your temp sensor might be off, the oil pump could be malfunctioning, your water pump could have an issue (creating uneven cooling), etc....but almost any of those except the oil temp sensor would trigger warning lights.

Since you are based in MA, I'm assuming you are driving in some real winter temps. Under normal winter driving, the temp gauge will start to show >160 degree oil between 8-12 minutes after start-up with mild driving. 8 minutes representing active driving, 12 minutes representing more idling time. If you just idle your car from stone cold, perhaps it'll take longer than that.

But your ultimate oil temps sound normalish to me. 220-230 is fine. 250 is a bit high, but also not problematic.

I would check the oil level and go into your cars secret menu in dash to have it show actual digital oil temps as they move around. See if they are moving linearly and "look" how you'd expect ~6.5 quarts of oil to heat up in 20 degree ambient temps.

JoeFromPA · 02-16-2017, 08:41 AM

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1030658

Here ya go - here's the page when I posted pictures and some info on accessing the secret menu and someone else posted some more comprehensive links for the f30 platform. Just scroll down.

Use this to see if your temp is varying in unlikely ways rather than rely solely on the analog gauge.

FlyingLow78 · 02-16-2017, 09:21 AM

Even flogging my car repeatedly up to 155 mph and down to 18 mph, then repeat 40-50 times, I never saw oil temps move above 230. Seriously good cooling on this car!

nicknaz · 02-17-2017, 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garrettdeb

I would say that it took at least 20 minutes for it to move off the lower limit stop.

that's not normal OP, I'd get it checked out if you can replicate it.

psedog · 02-17-2017, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Quote:

Originally Posted by garrettdeb

I would say that it took at least 20 minutes for it to move off the lower limit stop.

that's not normal OP, I'd get it checked out if you can replicate it.

It takes 6-7 miles right now for my car to start warming up. This is in So. Cal as well. I think his car is fine.

garrettdeb · 02-17-2017, 09:31 AM

Maybe paranoia is the operative word - cancelled my service appointment.

So Wednesday night I made the following observations, all settings in "economy", outside air temperature 41 degrees. Approximately 1-2 minutes of back roads followed by highway at 50-70mph. Both trips engine was completely cold

Trip number one - 7 minutes until needle moved off 160, another 7 minutes until needle passed 190. Topped out at a hair over 220.

Trip number two - 7 minutes until needle moved off 160, another 7 minutes until needle passed 190. Topped out at a hair over 220.

All my concerns arose from a trip I made last Saturday - it felt like it took 20 minutes for the engine to even move off the lower limit, but I must just be losing it.

I suspect that this is a result of my subconscious brain telling me that I have 4000 miles left on my warranty - which will probably carry me until end of April Then I have 5 months of lease left without warranty coverage.

02-15-2017, 01:03 PM	#1
garrettdeb Private 21 Rep 52 Posts Drives: 2015 M3 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Stoughton, MA iTrader: (0)	Rolled 46,000 miles today, first problem - I think So first off I have scheduled a service appointment and will update following. My situation is this - I'm fairly certain that either my analog temperature gauge in the instrument cluster is not reading correctly or I have another issue. I think that in just a few minutes, 10 or so, my car used to (i.e. just a few days ago) warm to 250 degrees - 12 o'clock - on the gauge. I live in Boston so the time to reach operating temperature will vary by a few minutes depending on the wide range of temperatures we experience. Today after driving for almost 40 minutes the gauge registered 230 - I'm not sure if this topped out or if it would have kept going with a longer drive. I would say that it took at least 20 minutes for it to move off the lower limit stop. Interestingly the LEDs for tachometer behave as they always have - when the engine is cold there is a lower limit for red-line and it increases to the max red-line in the same amount of time it has since new. My question: Can you confirm your typical operating temperature is 250 degrees after warmup, and how long does it take to reach it? Thanks, Garrett
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02-15-2017, 01:05 PM	#2
frankiebones Brigadier General 5299 Rep 3,056 Posts Drives: Fire Orange G80 6MT Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Long Island, NY iTrader: (0)	What throttle setting are you referring to? I am 220 in Sport + after warm up. __________________ Fire Orange 6MT G80 (Miss July, 2021 Cover of Bimmerpost) SMB M3 CS (gone) YMB F80 6MT (gone)
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02-15-2017, 01:28 PM	#4
garrettdeb Private 21 Rep 52 Posts Drives: 2015 M3 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Stoughton, MA iTrader: (0)	Economy throttle setting
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02-15-2017, 01:32 PM	#7
G35POPPEDMYCHERRY Banned 4995 Rep 4,139 Posts Drives: F80 Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Philadelphia iTrader: (1)	MINE NEVER goes to the middle. always the notch before
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02-15-2017, 01:37 PM	#8
garrettdeb Private 21 Rep 52 Posts Drives: 2015 M3 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Stoughton, MA iTrader: (0)	I appreciate the feedback, perhaps I am mistaken that it ever reached the middle - 250. I still do think it is taking (or at least appearing to take) an excessive amount of time to reach operating temperature. I will set a timer on my next drive and record the intervals from the point it moves off the lower limit, reaches the first interval (which is I think 190) and the point it reaches the second interval (which I think is 220).
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02-15-2017, 02:32 PM	#9
DocWeatherington Brigadier General 2933 Rep 4,076 Posts Drives: F90 CP Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: US iTrader: (0) Garage List 23 Bmw M3 [10.00]	I will concur with others depending on the throttle settings the motor runs at different oil temps up to about 60 degrees of change. Additionally, I have noticed the warm up times very according to outside temps. I wouldn't be shocked if its will run hot just to run hot, and do slow warm ups for a system/reliability test. Cold temps equal performance hot equals MPGs up to a certain point. Has it throw any codes? The temp it appears can vary a lot. I would just take it in to see, but its unlikely you have an issue. But better staff than sorry. See this link below, its a common concern. http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1025229 Also I think this common among the BMW M, and maybe even the standard lineup. Note Post# 16: " I made a discovery today that i hadn't previously realized. I normally drive in Sport throttle and Sport Plus Steering. Well I decided to spend some time in Sport Plus throttle. The thing is I have a MPE Steering Wheel II with race display and normally leave the engine temp display on while the car warms up. The only thing is I noticed on normal application the engine was quite some amount lower than normal. It was clear the cooling systems were firing away in Sport Plus mode. I normally find in sport mode the engine water/oil temps reached and then maintains about 106-109c (223-228F). Today they stayed around the 84C/93C (183F/199F) in Sport Plus. To test this further I switched to Sport Plus from Sport and the water temp dropped fast from about 228F to 200F in about 45 seconds. " Jimjamz Last edited by DocWeatherington; 02-15-2017 at 02:43 PM..
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02-15-2017, 08:22 PM	#12
MaX PL Major 532 Rep 1,415 Posts Drives: M3 Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: NY iTrader: (0)	One other thing Ive found is that in the summer, Sport+ runs at a constant 190 and in the winter, it seems to run a bit warmer as the secondary cooler likely doesn't come on as its cold outside. I run 250 in efficient and sport regardless of time of year.
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02-15-2017, 10:23 PM	#13
paliknight fuck this field 2192 Rep 2,605 Posts Drives: 18 F80 CS/18 F80 ZCP/19 M2C Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: everywhere iTrader: (1)	I know when its super cold out the car will take over 20 minutes to warm up unless i do some highway driving. __________________ BMW family... for now.
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02-15-2017, 11:51 PM	#14
TurboM Captain 252 Rep 674 Posts Drives: 2018 F82 M4 ZCP Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Atlanta iTrader: (1)	You guys are seriously paranoid. Under normal conditions (economy, comfort, etc.) the motor (coolant) will aim to run between 200-250 degrees. Switching to sport+ mode will engage the thermostat a bit more aggressively and will try to keep the motor a bit cooler under the assumption that you will be pushing it closer to its limits. That being said you'll see coolant temps closer to 180-210 degrees. Cooler doesn't always mean better either, 220 is perfectly fine for this, or any, motor. Key number here is the oil temp, not coolant.
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02-16-2017, 01:13 AM	#16
G35POPPEDMYCHERRY Banned 4995 Rep 4,139 Posts Drives: F80 Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Philadelphia iTrader: (1)	damn pretty sure if you hit 250 you got something worng. i drove that shit in 100 degree weather and whipped it and didnt hit 250
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02-16-2017, 08:38 AM	#17
JoeFromPA Colonel 1792 Rep 2,995 Posts Drives: '15 AW M3 6MT Stripper Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: SE PA iTrader: (0)	Edited: Your temp sensor might be off, the oil pump could be malfunctioning, your water pump could have an issue (creating uneven cooling), etc....but almost any of those except the oil temp sensor would trigger warning lights. Since you are based in MA, I'm assuming you are driving in some real winter temps. Under normal winter driving, the temp gauge will start to show >160 degree oil between 8-12 minutes after start-up with mild driving. 8 minutes representing active driving, 12 minutes representing more idling time. If you just idle your car from stone cold, perhaps it'll take longer than that. But your ultimate oil temps sound normalish to me. 220-230 is fine. 250 is a bit high, but also not problematic. I would check the oil level and go into your cars secret menu in dash to have it show actual digital oil temps as they move around. See if they are moving linearly and "look" how you'd expect ~6.5 quarts of oil to heat up in 20 degree ambient temps.
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02-16-2017, 08:41 AM	#18
JoeFromPA Colonel 1792 Rep 2,995 Posts Drives: '15 AW M3 6MT Stripper Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: SE PA iTrader: (0)	http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1030658 Here ya go - here's the page when I posted pictures and some info on accessing the secret menu and someone else posted some more comprehensive links for the f30 platform. Just scroll down. Use this to see if your temp is varying in unlikely ways rather than rely solely on the analog gauge.
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02-16-2017, 09:21 AM	#19
FlyingLow78 The G8X is a disaster. 🤮 930 Rep 988 Posts Drives: Not a BMW anymore Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Europe iTrader: (3)	Even flogging my car repeatedly up to 155 mph and down to 18 mph, then repeat 40-50 times, I never saw oil temps move above 230. Seriously good cooling on this car!
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02-17-2017, 09:31 AM	#22
garrettdeb Private 21 Rep 52 Posts Drives: 2015 M3 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Stoughton, MA iTrader: (0)	Maybe paranoia is the operative word - cancelled my service appointment. So Wednesday night I made the following observations, all settings in "economy", outside air temperature 41 degrees. Approximately 1-2 minutes of back roads followed by highway at 50-70mph. Both trips engine was completely cold Trip number one - 7 minutes until needle moved off 160, another 7 minutes until needle passed 190. Topped out at a hair over 220. Trip number two - 7 minutes until needle moved off 160, another 7 minutes until needle passed 190. Topped out at a hair over 220. All my concerns arose from a trip I made last Saturday - it felt like it took 20 minutes for the engine to even move off the lower limit, but I must just be losing it. I suspect that this is a result of my subconscious brain telling me that I have 4000 miles left on my warranty - which will probably carry me until end of April Then I have 5 months of lease left without warranty coverage.
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