E85 safe for M4??

[rich8102]

There is a station not far from me that sells E85. Is it safe to fill the car with? If so, should the entire tank be filled? Or 50/50 mix of E85 and 93? Is it safe to put E85 in on a consistent basis? The only engine mod I have is a JB4 stage 1. Sorry for the newb questions, just did not want to damage the car in any way.

Thx, Rich

[orevah]

I believe you can only run 30% e85 if your running map 2 on jb4. I dont think you can run e85 on stage 1. As far as filling the entire tank up that is a really bad idea. Fuel connecters have to be connected on map 2 in order to run e85.

[Dethsupp0rt]

Originally Posted by rich8102

There is a station not far from me that sells E85. Is it safe to fill the car with? If so, should the entire tank be filled? Or 50/50 mix of E85 and 93? Is it safe to put E85 in on a consistent basis? The only engine mod I have is a JB4 stage 1. Sorry for the newb questions, just did not want to damage the car in any way.

You definitely don't want to fill the car with it, nor go with a 50/50 mix. The JB stage 1 cannot adjust fuel trims, and the ECU will only adjust them so much (I'm not sure of the exact number, but I'm guessing it's good up until about E25).

Keeping in mind your 93 octane has 10% ethanol already, you could get away with 1, maybe 2 gallons of 85 per tank . . . however I'm not sure if you'd feel much of a performance difference.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

The stage1 is not really suited for E-mixes. If you are serious about using E85 upgrade to the JB4 and make sure you hook in the Fuel connector.

Stage1 is fully not compatible with e85

Mike

[///M ARMY]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

The stage1 is not really suited for E-mixes. If you are serious about using E85 upgrade to the JB4 and make sure you hook in the Fuel connector.

If you are gonna try with the Stage1 you need very low mix.. Maybe 20-25% at most.

Mike

what he said. Please do not use 50/50 mix. You can do 4 gallons of E85 and top of 91.

[rich8102]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I appreciate it. Sounds like JB4 stage 2 is the way to go with this.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by rich8102

Thanks for the feedback guys. I appreciate it. Sounds like JB4 stage 2 is the way to go with this.

I made an edit to my post. Should not use any e85 with stage1

Mike

[///M.Tonee]

i've tested various % of e85 mix and the optimal is right at E30. Our tank is 15.9 gallons so use 4.25 gallons of e85 and 11.65 gallons of 91 pump.



If you push too much e85, you will get trim error codes:

[rutiger]

will that trim code also result in a CEL on dash?

[///M.Tonee]

Originally Posted by rutiger

will that trim code also result in a CEL on dash?

no it does not have CEL on dash

[peter_s]

You will ruin your fuel pump. The alcohols (ethanol) will eat the rubber seals in the pumps internals and all the other rubber parts in your fuel delivery system. It will not happen overnight, but give it a year or two. Manufacturers almost never prepare a car for ethanol if it isn't designed as a flex fuel car.

Also, the problem with E85 is that some days it can be e60, some days e80. A flex sensor that measures the amount of ethanol in the fuel is critical. I would also bet that the car will run lean because the stock injectors probably can't handle the extra 30% of needed fuel flow. Be VERY cautious.

If I were to run E85 I would rebuild the whole fuel delivery system for E85. Change pump, lines, gaskets and injectors. And then tune it with a flex fuel sensor.

[pikkagtr]

That isnt true about the fuel system and rubber parts.
Modern cars have a lot better materials than say a car in the 90s
I ran 100% straight E85 on my EVO ix 2006 27psi for 155k miles then got 2010 EVO X and also ran 100% E85 for another 80k miles without a single fault.
My friend still has a 93 mitsu talon TSI 4G63 and it runs on 100% E85, although not a true daily and outs on only around 6-7k miles a yr, but has been running it for over 8yrs, and dont tell me a 23 yr old mitsubishi has better fuel system rubber parts/seals than a brand new BMW

I would be more worried about fuel trims and running lean since E85 requires roughly 30% more to out put the same amount of work as Gasoline, as it has less BTU per gal

[whitstap]

I believe the true octane rating of e85 is closer to 94-96(r+m)/2 not 105 as originally marketed...and e85 at pump is 83-84% max and sometimes way less (can buy cheap beaker style test kit too lil messy)...cool calculator tho thx found it first search...still potent stuff has cooling properties and can increase the effective octane of the gas more when blended in small quantities but there is a point of diminishing returns...no e85 stations within 30 miles any direction of my house in fla found some on turnpike the other day and tried a few tanks in my f80 w/ 5 gal e85 blended with Shell 93 and the car definitely had better low end response and torque even got a lil louder (leaner?) definitely lost at least 2mpgs but worth the response... Im running filters and dps no tune right now FYI...installing jb4 stage 1 this weekend but won't run any e85 till I get stage 2 connected good to know...would run e30 all the time if had near me oh well thx

[Account Closed]

Explain something to me guys. I'm lost...I raced my buddies and either they put too much e85 in their cars, or wheel weight is a major factor in this. All of us are shocked.

I raced my buddy who has an M4 too, JB4 on map 2 (I believe or at least that's what he said) and he also has a full exhaust which I think was Eismann. It wasn't Akra, or that other popular one. Anyways, we raced from 40 in 2nd gear. Keep in mind, I'm bone stock, besides a downpipe. Now, I won him by a nose once we got to 110ish. Please explain to me why a JB4 M4 with a full exhaust, lost to a non-JB4 M4, running on 91 octane, and with just a downpipe? How is that possible? We are both DCT, in fact, we were all DCT on that day. On top of this, we raced twice and both times were nearly identical. I also raced his friend who had a downpipe, e85 (don't know the %) and JB4 (don't know the map). I won by a whole car. Keep in mind that my buddy has stock 19s with stock tires, and the other guy had gold 20" wheels (don't know the brand)...and my wheels are the stock 18s with stock tires.

Was my wheels a factor in this race or was their e85 mix all wrong? I drove my buddies car to hear his exhaust and how it sounded in his car, and I felt like the engine was....not performing well? It wasn't as responsive as my car....and his car has 4k miles and mine has less that 1400. He has no track days, and I have no track days, and his friend has had no track days. What the hell is going on?

[s0ul]

Either they held back or they had a lot of dead-weight or they murdered a couple people in their trunk. (Seriously, you can fit two people in there.)

[lore2486]

Maybe they had traction issues, when i first started mixing e85 on my car i thought it was slower. Turns out traction controll was cutting the power even on 3rd gear.

[Account Closed]

Originally Posted by lore2486

Maybe they had traction issues, when i first started mixing e85 on my car i thought it was slower. Turns out traction controll was cutting the power even on 3rd gear.

Good point, but none of us race with traction control on, or MDM. We all had traction control completely turned off. I know my buddy with the 19s had traction issues, and he was slipping...but, I was slipping too. I don't know if he had 100 or 200lbs of weight in his trunk, but I doubt that....I also doubt that their cars are running well. And to make things even more crazy, I realized that I was racing with a full tank and they were almost at a half. Something ain't right..JB4 Map 2, downpipe and full exhaust should not loose to a bone stock m4 with just a downpipe. If having shoes in the trunk is making the car loose, then why do people go through the hassle and spend money if it isn't working? The point is to make the car faster. Right? I'm going to meet up with another friend of mine who has JB4 too, and he has a downpipe, JB4, volk wheels with more rubber on the ground....so this should be very simple. He should win...especially with more rubber...he wont slip with Nitto 555R compounds. So, this will be an ultimate test..Will post the results here.

[lore2486]

Originally Posted by A. Bedrosian

Good point, but none of us race with traction control on, or MDM. We all had traction control completely turned off. I know my buddy with the 19s had traction issues, and he was slipping...but, I was slipping too. I don't know if he had 100 or 200lbs of weight in his trunk, but I doubt that....I also doubt that their cars are running well. And to make things even more crazy, I realized that I was racing with a full tank and they were almost at a half. Something ain't right..JB4 Map 2, downpipe and full exhaust should not loose to a bone stock m4 with just a downpipe. If having shoes in the trunk is making the car loose, then why do people go through the hassle and spend money if it isn't working? The point is to make the car faster. Right? I'm going to meet up with another friend of mine who has JB4 too, and he has a downpipe, JB4, volk wheels with more rubber on the ground....so this should be very simple. He should win...especially with more rubber...he wont slip with Nitto 555R compounds. So, this will be an ultimate test..Will post the results here.

keep us posted... also if you can get some logs from your friend running E85 that would help narrow it down. i can compare to my car.

[Account Closed]

yeah, will do brother. I'm concerned. I think they're doing something wrong.

I'll definitely ask them about the logs, and I will also ask my friend whom I'm going to see Tuesday.

[supremepower]

Originally Posted by A. Bedrosian

Explain something to me guys. I'm lost...I raced my buddies and either they put too much e85 in their cars, or wheel weight is a major factor in this. All of us are shocked.

I raced my buddy who has an M4 too, JB4 on map 2 (I believe or at least that's what he said) and he also has a full exhaust which I think was Eismann. It wasn't Akra, or that other popular one. Anyways, we raced from 40 in 2nd gear. Keep in mind, I'm bone stock, besides a downpipe. Now, I won him by a nose once we got to 110ish. Please explain to me why a JB4 M4 with a full exhaust, lost to a non-JB4 M4, running on 91 octane, and with just a downpipe? How is that possible? We are both DCT, in fact, we were all DCT on that day. On top of this, we raced twice and both times were nearly identical. I also raced his friend who had a downpipe, e85 (don't know the %) and JB4 (don't know the map). I won by a whole car. Keep in mind that my buddy has stock 19s with stock tires, and the other guy had gold 20" wheels (don't know the brand)...and my wheels are the stock 18s with stock tires.

Was my wheels a factor in this race or was their e85 mix all wrong? I drove my buddies car to hear his exhaust and how it sounded in his car, and I felt like the engine was....not performing well? It wasn't as responsive as my car....and his car has 4k miles and mine has less that 1400. He has no track days, and I have no track days, and his friend has had no track days. What the hell is going on?

Hmm... That's very interesting. Our shop car is running the JB4 full exhaust (AWE Resonated + ER DPs) on Map 7, 1/4 E85/ rest 91... Sometimes we do E85/100.

We've seen no issues, IN FACT... At the recent PML Quickstrike, we pulled on a 458 Speciale, Gintani Supercharged E92 M3, and a few other notable exotics...

Have them log their cars and send them to Terry. There's definitely something off.

[Account Closed]

Originally Posted by supremepower

Hmm... That's very interesting. Our shop car is running the JB4 full exhaust (AWE Resonated + ER DPs) on Map 7, 1/4 E85/ rest 91... Sometimes we do E85/100.

We've seen no issues, IN FACT... At the recent PML Quickstrike, we pulled on a 458 Speciale, Gintani Supercharged E92 M3, and a few other notable exotics...

Have them log their cars and send them to Terry. There's definitely something off.

Hey! Yes, I definitely will have to check the logs. I don't know much about JB4, but I'm guessing they have logging. I'm going to call my buddy up and ask him what gas he was using and exactly how much he had in the car. I'm also going to ask if he's done an oil change recently and if he had anything in the trunk that was super-heavy.

I'll keep you guys posted.

[supremepower]

Originally Posted by A. Bedrosian

Hey! Yes, I definitely will have to check the logs. I don't know much about JB4, but I'm guessing they have logging. I'm going to call my buddy up and ask him what gas he was using and exactly how much he had in the car. I'm also going to ask if he's done an oil change recently and if he had anything in the trunk that was super-heavy.

I'll keep you guys posted.

Sounds good

If you need help let us know. My co-worker Drew works very closely with Terry and the guys at BMS. We'll get it sorted out no problem