Occasional DEs in F80 - mods needed?

OhioRiderAaron · 06-22-2018, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicknaz

I didn't realize CT was still around

I used Panther Plus (AX6) on my WRX many years ago and they couldn't hold up to DE usage. not sure it's worth using these for f80

I'm using R10 front and R8 rear on my SM (driven to track) and like them much better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

The current AX6 is not the same as the old Panther Plus (used them on my S2000); however, I do agree that the AX6 isn't a great (race) track pad especially for a ~3500 lb car. Also, they're not a good street pad either due to noise. They'll perform better on track than OEM pads but an XP pad would be the best option because you'd have to swap the AX6, just like the XP, pads before/after a track day/weekend.

The PFC z-rated street pad is an OK track pad but it's still a compromise. On the street, they require a little heat before they bite well. On the track, there's still a chance you'd experience fade.

Thanks guys, good information. I'm a big fan of the XP or R whatever series, but never had any experience with the lower compounds.

M3SQRD · 06-22-2018, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicknaz

^ why not just put up with the squeal and keep one of the milder XP (like xp10 / g-loc r10) pads on all the time?

(Does it not work because f80 is too heavy, and requires and XP pad that just isn't gong to work on the street)

I thought the OP was looking for a quiet year-round pad that could also be used on track? The AX6 works well at temps above 50 F so it's fine for the street except in very cold winter climates and they're noisy. It'll work OK as a dual-purpose pad but won't have the same on-track performance as an XP compound (not 100% fade free).

turtl631 · 06-23-2018, 02:45 PM

I was looking for a pad that would work on track and be tolerable on the street in warm weather. It snows here so I am realistic and know that a pad that works all winter is not going to also hold up at the track. I am going to try out some rs29 that I picked up lightly-used, and if they are too loud to run on the street in between track events I will just swap out with stock pads.

MRV99 · 07-09-2018, 08:41 PM

Here is the advice I was given from track guys when I started and knew I would do a few events a year

1) track tire setup. Rim and tire setup which is good for the track. Beginners should stay away from R compound for to many to list. Get a good 120-180 compound. Re71 AD08

2 track style pad. OEM's just are not really good for HPDE. They work but there are so many better pads out there. There std's RS29, PFC08's which allows you to swap out the pads 10 min a wheel max during your wheel change and your good to go. Good comparability with OEM compound.

3) brake Fluid. Get a good high temp fluid. You may not boil OEM fluid but it is just good insurance. Besides most HPDE events wants to see fluid less than a year old so just change it before your first event. Castrol SRF will not need to be bled in between HPDE events. Motul 600 is cheaper but needs to be bled in between events.

I have followed this advice and have been very successful. As you get better faster, you may change rubber types or pad compound but the basics are still the same.

CanAutM3 · 07-10-2018, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turtl631

I was looking for a pad that would work on track and be tolerable on the street in warm weather. It snows here so I am realistic and know that a pad that works all winter is not going to also hold up at the track. I am going to try out some rs29 that I picked up lightly-used, and if they are too loud to run on the street in between track events I will just swap out with stock pads.

I daily with the RSL29 during the track season, I guess I am getting lazy with age and don’t bother swapping anymore. I find the RSL29 to be quite tolerable on the street as long as there is a pad transfer layer on the rotors. The transfer layer layer usually lasts me 2-3 weeks of street driving, which is sufficient to get me to the next track event. The RSL29 are loosely fit inside the calipers, so they do slap a fair bit in forward-reverse transitions, but it does not bother me too much.

It is possible to track with the stock pads as long as you do good brake management (proper cool down, avoid overstressing the brakes and run DSC off). To my surprise, they performed quite well (I was holding the same lap times as with the RSL29), however they wear down extremely fast. I wore down 80% of a new front set in three 30min session.

If you start pushing, camber plates are necessary to avoid excessive front shoulder wear.

The F8X is the most track ready M3/4 thus far. It has plenty of cooling and can be tracked straight off the showroom. Adding track pads and camber plates are recommended to reduce consumable expenses and it is also worthwhile considering tires that resist heat better than the PSS.

FlyingLow78 · 07-11-2018, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhioRiderAaron

I would have recommended checking out Ferodo or Carbotech for a more street-friendly compound. Not DS1.11, RS29, or XP10 level compounds though, these all get annoying after a few hundred street miles.

Default answer should not be RS29s...as stated many times recently they're overrated. 7/10ths pad

OMG this. RS29s will fade during hard use and leave you with a feeling of no brakes. Find something that tolerates more heat and just swap before your track day.

turtl631 · 07-19-2018, 08:18 AM

I did an event with the RS29pads and stock PSS tires, lowered on Swift Springs. I have around 1.8* neg camber in front. Car felt pretty good, no brake fade albeit I’m still learning this car and hadn’t been to Blackhawk Farms in a few years. Clearly 255 PSS in front is suboptimal. Looking forward to my 18” TE37s arriving so I can run the RT615K+ I’ve had sitting here for 6 months. I’d rather be out in my 240SX track car but it wasn’t ready. May take the M3 to Road America in a few weeks. Thanks for the tips folks.

MRV99 · 07-19-2018, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turtl631

I did an event with the RS29pads and stock PSS tires, lowered on Swift Springs. I have around 1.8* neg camber in front. Car felt pretty good, no brake fade albeit I'm still learning this car and hadn't been to Blackhawk Farms in a few years. Clearly 255 PSS in front is suboptimal. Looking forward to my 18" TE37s arriving so I can run the RT615K+ I've had sitting here for 6 months. I'd rather be out in my 240SX track car but it wasn't ready. May take the M3 to Road America in a few weeks. Thanks for the tips folks.

Are you going to run Octoberfast in September with Badger Bimmer? If you have never driven RA you will be blown away. Compared to Blackhawk Farms it is a super speedway. You may also want to look for events at Joliet Autobahn. It's only 1.5 hours away and the Sputh course and full course is pretty fun

97supratt · 07-20-2018, 09:01 AM

Some of the aggressive pads you all mention in the thread are great and bite very well but are torture on the OEM rotors. Even with cool down laps the OEM rotors are very soft and these race pads just tear them up and eventually can warp them. Just my .02 but invest in rotors. Ask me how I know

.

turtl631 · 07-20-2018, 03:18 PM

MRV99:. I've been to RA but not in this car. It's wonderful, and indeed totally different from Blackhawk. September is packed so I won't be out there but maybe Drive For Babies.

turtl631 · 08-11-2018, 07:49 PM

Update: Road America event went great, this was again with rs29 pads and OEM pilot Super Sports. The tires definitely go off when they start to get too hot but that is to be expected with the compound and sizing. The brakes worked well. There's still a lot left in the car but I'm working my way up to it. My Volk wheels with rt615k tires (275/315) are on the car now, so the next time I have the car out I will be on wider and grippier tires. Tire wear seams fairly even, I have not been beating up the front outer shoulders, so I think the extra camber I got by lowering on the swift springs did the trick. I actually didn't even get an alignment after lowering it, checked with my toe plates and camber gauge at home and things looked really even side to side and reasonable numbers so I just left it.

viva_brasil · 08-22-2018, 09:41 AM

Ferodo DS2500 is my go to dual duty pad. DS1.11 for track only - but are more aggressive on the rotors.

What are the Swift spring rates compared to stock / ZCP?

turtl631 · 08-23-2018, 07:19 PM

185 lb/in Stock M3/4 Front Springs
575 lb/in Stock M3/4 Rear Springs

268 lb/in M3 Swift Spec-R Front Springs
715 lb/in M3 Swift Spec-R Rear Springs

Front rates increase of just over 50%
Rear rates increase of just over 25%

M3 lowering is 1" or 25mm up front and .4" or 10mm for the rear.

06-23-2018, 02:45 PM	#25
turtl631 Enlisted Member 26 Rep 48 Posts Drives: YMB '16 F80 M3 Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Milwaukee, WI iTrader: (0)	I was looking for a pad that would work on track and be tolerable on the street in warm weather. It snows here so I am realistic and know that a pad that works all winter is not going to also hold up at the track. I am going to try out some rs29 that I picked up lightly-used, and if they are too loud to run on the street in between track events I will just swap out with stock pads.
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07-09-2018, 08:41 PM	#26
MRV99 Major 254 Rep 1,067 Posts Drives: 2017 M3 ZCP / 2017 RRS SC Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Naperville iTrader: (1) Garage List 2017 BMW M3 ZCP [0.00]	Here is the advice I was given from track guys when I started and knew I would do a few events a year 1) track tire setup. Rim and tire setup which is good for the track. Beginners should stay away from R compound for to many to list. Get a good 120-180 compound. Re71 AD08 2 track style pad. OEM's just are not really good for HPDE. They work but there are so many better pads out there. There std's RS29, PFC08's which allows you to swap out the pads 10 min a wheel max during your wheel change and your good to go. Good comparability with OEM compound. 3) brake Fluid. Get a good high temp fluid. You may not boil OEM fluid but it is just good insurance. Besides most HPDE events wants to see fluid less than a year old so just change it before your first event. Castrol SRF will not need to be bled in between HPDE events. Motul 600 is cheaper but needs to be bled in between events. I have followed this advice and have been very successful. As you get better faster, you may change rubber types or pad compound but the basics are still the same. __________________ 17 M3 ZCP -- 2017 Range Rover Sport SC --RIP-- 12 X5 50i Sport -- 11 M3 DCT -- 2011 X5 50i(Lemon) -- 2008 550 Msport -- 2007 x5 4.8 sport -- 2004 545 sport -- 2002 x5 4.4 sport -- 2001 540i Msport 2000 SL500 -- 1997 SL500
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07-19-2018, 08:18 AM	#29
turtl631 Enlisted Member 26 Rep 48 Posts Drives: YMB '16 F80 M3 Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Milwaukee, WI iTrader: (0)	I did an event with the RS29pads and stock PSS tires, lowered on Swift Springs. I have around 1.8* neg camber in front. Car felt pretty good, no brake fade albeit I’m still learning this car and hadn’t been to Blackhawk Farms in a few years. Clearly 255 PSS in front is suboptimal. Looking forward to my 18” TE37s arriving so I can run the RT615K+ I’ve had sitting here for 6 months. I’d rather be out in my 240SX track car but it wasn’t ready. May take the M3 to Road America in a few weeks. Thanks for the tips folks. __________________ ~2016 F80 M3: Yas Marina Blue, full Sakhir interior, DCT. BM3, TE37SL/RT615K+, Apex EC-7/PA4, Ohlins R&T, Pagid RS29. Year round daily driver, occasional track days. ~1992 240SX: SR20VE, EFR7163, Koni 8611s, Cusco LSD, half cage, etc. Plated track day car.
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07-20-2018, 09:01 AM	#31
97supratt Second Lieutenant 99 Rep 275 Posts Drives: porsche and mercedes Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: La crescenta CA iTrader: (5)	Some of the aggressive pads you all mention in the thread are great and bite very well but are torture on the OEM rotors. Even with cool down laps the OEM rotors are very soft and these race pads just tear them up and eventually can warp them. Just my .02 but invest in rotors. Ask me how I know .
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-20-2018, 03:18 PM	#32
turtl631 Enlisted Member 26 Rep 48 Posts Drives: YMB '16 F80 M3 Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Milwaukee, WI iTrader: (0)	MRV99:. I've been to RA but not in this car. It's wonderful, and indeed totally different from Blackhawk. September is packed so I won't be out there but maybe Drive For Babies.
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08-11-2018, 07:49 PM	#33
turtl631 Enlisted Member 26 Rep 48 Posts Drives: YMB '16 F80 M3 Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Milwaukee, WI iTrader: (0)	Update: Road America event went great, this was again with rs29 pads and OEM pilot Super Sports. The tires definitely go off when they start to get too hot but that is to be expected with the compound and sizing. The brakes worked well. There's still a lot left in the car but I'm working my way up to it. My Volk wheels with rt615k tires (275/315) are on the car now, so the next time I have the car out I will be on wider and grippier tires. Tire wear seams fairly even, I have not been beating up the front outer shoulders, so I think the extra camber I got by lowering on the swift springs did the trick. I actually didn't even get an alignment after lowering it, checked with my toe plates and camber gauge at home and things looked really even side to side and reasonable numbers so I just left it.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-22-2018, 09:41 AM	#34
viva_brasil Enlisted Member 15 Rep 46 Posts Drives: F80 30 Jahre 6MT Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Bay Area iTrader: (0)	Ferodo DS2500 is my go to dual duty pad. DS1.11 for track only - but are more aggressive on the rotors. What are the Swift spring rates compared to stock / ZCP?
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08-23-2018, 07:19 PM	#35
turtl631 Enlisted Member 26 Rep 48 Posts Drives: YMB '16 F80 M3 Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Milwaukee, WI iTrader: (0)	185 lb/in Stock M3/4 Front Springs 575 lb/in Stock M3/4 Rear Springs 268 lb/in M3 Swift Spec-R Front Springs 715 lb/in M3 Swift Spec-R Rear Springs Front rates increase of just over 50% Rear rates increase of just over 25% M3 lowering is 1" or 25mm up front and .4" or 10mm for the rear.
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