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      06-06-2018, 08:36 AM   #23
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It's cool to see what people do with their cars. Both are quite different and very different experiences.

But once you start talking about modified extensively vs a less modified car it just becomes a tad ridiculous. Sink the same amount into the F80/82 or do Pure Turbo upgrades, etc..there's 700+ whp F80's out there as well.

To each their own. At least this is a //M to //M debate. Not 335i bro's talking about how they "smoked" an M3 with $8000 in aftermarket performance upgrades. Regardless, it's neat to see the engine capabilities of both.
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      06-06-2018, 09:05 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
We posted some dynos comparing an ESS Supercharged E92 vs F82 few years ago:

ESS E-Tronic BOP M4 vs ESS VT2-625 Supercharged M3
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1110916



Enjoy!
interesting dyno, SC E90s definitely move on the top end. would be nice to see one from a stage 2 tuned 500-520whp F8x vs this SC E9x. I think that's a fair and even more interesting comparison then.
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      06-06-2018, 09:37 AM   #25
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Supercharged E9X's can't handle the heat of track use where it matters most. Harrop may be the exception but I wouldn't trust it in the heat of SoCal tracks.
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      06-07-2018, 07:59 AM   #26
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my 2c

i love the way s65 sounds...otherwise f82 is a better car for ME.

couple years back i ram my f80 m3 dct with plug and play tune (stage 1) vs ESS e90 m3 and the guy couldnt even keep up with me. i was very surprised because his dyno and HP numbers were way higher than mine.

dyno graphs are nice looking, on the street and actual driving is another story.

there is much more than just HP

so its a choice, speed limits dont really allow to fully open up either of these cars. boils down to preference.
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      06-07-2018, 09:17 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Bahn360Photo View Post
there is much more than just HP
Really? I get it that weight matters, but for the same weight, it is all about hp. Period.
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      06-09-2018, 10:40 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahn360Photo View Post
there is much more than just HP
Really? I get it that weight matters, but for the same weight, it is all about hp. Period.
Both the bmw 340i and the Infiniti G37 achieve max hp of 320-something, and they weigh about the same. If hp/weight is all that matters for performance, why then are the performance specs for the 340i significantly more impressive?
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      06-09-2018, 01:22 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahn360Photo View Post
there is much more than just HP
Really? I get it that weight matters, but for the same weight, it is all about hp. Period.
Really?

Let me give u a basic example

Infiniti Q60 red sport 400 hp
Mustang GT 420 hp
M3/4 425 hp

Would u agree based on hundreds of videos that m3/4 will roll by both cars above? And 5 hp difference with mustang is negligible

25 hp difference with Infiniti is so so, in videos you see the major difference

Now let me tell you about drivetrain and putting power to the ground...

And power delivery...
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      06-10-2018, 07:27 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahn360Photo View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahn360Photo View Post
there is much more than just HP
Really? I get it that weight matters, but for the same weight, it is all about hp. Period.
Really?

Let me give u a basic example

Infiniti Q60 red sport 400 hp
Mustang GT 420 hp
M3/4 425 hp

Would u agree based on hundreds of videos that m3/4 will roll by both cars above? And 5 hp difference with mustang is negligible

25 hp difference with Infiniti is so so, in videos you see the major difference

Now let me tell you about drivetrain and putting power to the ground...

And power delivery...
Yep, and torque/power curve vs getting hung up on max, crank hp figures that are most useful for marketing.
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      06-10-2018, 08:58 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahn360Photo View Post
Really?

Let me give u a basic example

Infiniti Q60 red sport 400 hp
Mustang GT 420 hp
M3/4 425 hp

Would u agree based on hundreds of videos that m3/4 will roll by both cars above? And 5 hp difference with mustang is negligible

25 hp difference with Infiniti is so so, in videos you see the major difference

Now let me tell you about drivetrain and putting power to the ground...

And power delivery...
Physics are physics. For a given road speed, the car with the highest power to weight at that speed will out accelerate the other. Period. There is no way around this. Hence my statement.

Now, how the power is delivered over the entire power curve is crucial in assessing a car's performance, because if a car makes more power more of the time it will perform better. Torque figures don't mean much because you need to know the gearing to assess performance.

What makes things even more complex, is the standards that define how power rating are obtained. With the avenue of modern turbocharged engines that can produce significantly more power when accelerating than when in steady state, the SAE have recently allowed manufacturers to take advantage of this when obtaining their power ratings. The SAE however leave it up to the manufacturers to chose whatever method they want, transient or steady state. Because of this, it now makes it very difficult to compare power rating between manufacturers or between NA and FI engines. Most European manufacturers choose the steady state method, hence why folks often believe that they are "under rated".
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      06-10-2018, 08:59 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
Both the bmw 340i and the Infiniti G37 achieve max hp of 320-something, and they weigh about the same. If hp/weight is all that matters for performance, why then are the performance specs for the 340i significantly more impressive?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
Yep, and torque/power curve vs getting hung up on max, crank hp figures that are most useful for marketing.
See post above.
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      06-11-2018, 05:10 PM   #33
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The M4 can match a heavily modded E9x with a full warranty, with simple and easily removable mods like a chip and some bolt-on. That matters to a lot of people, myself included

If I had an E9x I'd put a nice catback on it and call it a day, the driving experience is epic already that way IMO. Sure it'd be nice if it's faster, but that applies to all cars
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      06-11-2018, 05:13 PM   #34
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It'll cost you over $10k for the necessary parts to make the E92 that fast.

The same power can be made in the F8X for less than $1500......

That's why I traded my E92 for an F82.
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      06-11-2018, 07:58 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahn360Photo View Post
Really?

Let me give u a basic example

Infiniti Q60 red sport 400 hp
Mustang GT 420 hp
M3/4 425 hp

Would u agree based on hundreds of videos that m3/4 will roll by both cars above? And 5 hp difference with mustang is negligible

25 hp difference with Infiniti is so so, in videos you see the major difference

Now let me tell you about drivetrain and putting power to the ground...

And power delivery...
I do not understand why people haven't finally understood that BMW and Mercedes lie about the output of their turbocharged engines. Maybe even Audi. That's how the BMW spanks the cars you listed, because the S55 is more like 480hp at the crank, where the other two are pretty spot on I'm sure.
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      06-11-2018, 08:00 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian1973 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahn360Photo View Post
Really?

Let me give u a basic example

Infiniti Q60 red sport 400 hp
Mustang GT 420 hp
M3/4 425 hp

Would u agree based on hundreds of videos that m3/4 will roll by both cars above? And 5 hp difference with mustang is negligible

25 hp difference with Infiniti is so so, in videos you see the major difference

Now let me tell you about drivetrain and putting power to the ground...

And power delivery...
I do not understand why people don't understand that BMW and Mercedes lie about the output of their turbocharged engines. Maybe even Audi. That's how the BMW spanks the cars you listed, because the S55 is more like 480hp at the crank.
That is true, and the ones I mention inflate it.

I went by reported numbers.
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      06-11-2018, 08:37 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian1973 View Post
I do not understand why people haven't finally understood that BMW and Mercedes lie about the output of their turbocharged engines. Maybe even Audi. That's how the BMW spanks the cars you listed, because the S55 is more like 480hp at the crank, where the other two are pretty spot on I'm sure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahn360Photo View Post
That is true, and the ones I mention inflate it.

I went by reported numbers.
Read post #31.

The standards that define how automotive power ratings are obtained are pretty strict. Manufacturers cannot arbitrarily inflate or deflate their power ratings as they wish.
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      06-12-2018, 06:37 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inf4life View Post
It'll cost you over $10k for the necessary parts to make the E92 that fast.

The same power can be made in the F8X for less than $1500......

That's why I traded my E92 for an F82.
Yes but that's excluding the price of each car though...
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      06-14-2018, 12:43 PM   #39
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Yes but that's excluding the price of each car though...
New for new, the price difference isn't that great.

If you're trying to compare a 150k mile 2008 M3 vs a 40k mile M4, then you might as well keep going and say you can put the same amount into a 1999 honda civic, etc.

Car for car, the price per hp won't be beat in a FI car. That's why I switched cars.
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      06-17-2018, 12:47 AM   #40
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I'll jump in because this will be fun, I may have some things to learn about the F80. Most SC'd E9x's are trapping in high 120's/low 130's. I see quite a few ESS E9x's listed above the F80's here: http://dragtimes.com/BMW--M3-Drag-Racing.html. I would not expect that if it only took $1500 to achieve similar results? Have things changed a lot since these types of vids? E90 ESS Tuning VT2-625, fully catless Akra Exhaust, and a 91/100 octane blend vs F80 M3 has catless downpipes, Akra Exhaust, JB4 Tune, and a 91/100 octane blend...
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      06-17-2018, 12:55 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inf4life View Post
If you're trying to compare a 150k mile 2008 M3 vs a 40k mile M4, then you might as well keep going and say you can put the same amount into a 1999 honda civic, etc.
The price difference is pretty large and certainly covers the cost of a SC.

Compare a 32k mile '08 M3 @ $32k (https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ngId=486487528) vs. the lowest cost comparable mileage F80 @ $44k (https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ngId=479844020). That's a minimum of $12k difference, many F80's are significantly more costly with that mileage.
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      06-17-2018, 03:08 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTony View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inf4life View Post
If you're trying to compare a 150k mile 2008 M3 vs a 40k mile M4, then you might as well keep going and say you can put the same amount into a 1999 honda civic, etc.
The price difference is pretty large and certainly covers the cost of a SC.

Compare a 32k mile '08 M3 @ $32k (https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ngId=486487528) vs. the lowest cost comparable mileage F80 @ $44k (https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ngId=479844020). That's a minimum of $12k difference, many F80's are significantly more costly with that mileage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TTony View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inf4life View Post
If you're trying to compare a 150k mile 2008 M3 vs a 40k mile M4, then you might as well keep going and say you can put the same amount into a 1999 honda civic, etc.
The price difference is pretty large and certainly covers the cost of a SC.

Compare a 32k mile '08 M3 @ $32k (https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ngId=486487528) vs. the lowest cost comparable mileage F80 @ $44k (https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ngId=479844020). That's a minimum of $12k difference, many F80's are significantly more costly with that mileage.
I would sure hope there is a significant price difference between a 2008 and 2015 car.

You take that 10 year old technology, sink your $12k into it. I'll spend $44k and another $2k and the power will be comparable.

Why don't you just go buy a $3k Honda Civic and then put $41k into and smoke that bone stock M3??
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      06-17-2018, 03:18 PM   #43
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My K20 Civic will smoke your E92 in reverse and has a far superior driving experience.
Any pics of your K20 Civic? I push a 2011 Si for my daily.

K20Z3 and S65B40 are some of the greatest naturally aspirated motors ever created.
Shit, does it break down that much?
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      06-18-2018, 11:42 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inf4life View Post
I would sure hope there is a significant price difference between a 2008 and 2015 car.

You take that 10 year old technology, sink your $12k into it. I'll spend $44k and another $2k and the power will be comparable.

Why don't you just go buy a $3k Honda Civic and then put $41k into and smoke that bone stock M3??
I cross shopped the F80 & SC'd E92 and chose the E92. Driving experience, power delivery and feel/sound of the car where much better in the E92 IMO. Traction is much, much better on the street as well. I do not think power is comparable with $2k in mods on an F80 vs. an $8k ESS-625 SC kit on a E92.

Other than the infotainment system and lighting, I'm not sure what technology you are referring to when referring to 10 year old E92 technology vs 3 year old F80 technology? The main pros for the F80 I saw for the F80 was that I could fit a wider rear tire on it and I liked the CCB's.
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