Driving "without a license"

[b1st]

I got pulled over for not having proper plates... I still had expired euro plates on since cops didn't seem to care the first 6 months of ownership. Well, this particular cop cared. Fix it ticket... whatever, I don't care.

The bigger issue is that I moved from Washington DC several months ago and haven't bothered to get a California license. My thinking was that since my DC license is good for another year, might as well use it until it runs out and then get Cali license when I have to. Well, the cop disagreed with this logic. He said that since I've been living in Cali for more than 2 weeks, my DC license was invalid and I was driving without a license. I couldn't plea and reason with him. So he gave me a ticket for driving without a license, which is a misdemeanor.

I have my fun moments once in a while but I like to keep my records pretty clean... I think the last time I got a speeding ticket was like 4-5 yrs ago and nothing worse than that. Driving without a license sounds like a big deal and if someone heard it (my employer, future clients, law enforcement, etc) it sounds much bigger deal than it is since I DO have a valid driver's license issued by District of Columbia and I was planning on getting a Cali license soon. I could imagine the next time I get pulled over for speeding or something that the cops/judges won't give me break since now I have "driving without a license" on my record.

My questions are:

1. Was I actually driving without a license in the eyes of State of California or was this cop a moron? I've lived in a few different states and I've never heard of this logic before. Yes, I SHOULD get a local state license but what I have currently is perfectly valid for driving in the entire US and California is a part of US.
2. Is this actually a big deal or am I thinking too much into this? Anyone else been in this situation and how did it play out?
3. I do have to show up to the court. At the surface it seems that getting Cali license before the court date seems like a good idea. However, if I do that, the "driving without a license" record will make it into my Cali license. If I don't get Cali license, the record will go instead into my DC license, which will expire soon anyway. Am I over-analyzing this or is this how it all works?
4. Finally, perhaps I should get a lawyer. Can someone recommend one? I don't really want a record like that if I can avoid it. I'm in LA county and LA city.

[G1n Mast3r]

That sucks. Hopefully it all gets sorted out. But just maybe Sedan_Clan can shed some light on this?

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by b1st

My questions are:

1. Was I actually driving without a license in the eyes of State of California or was this cop a moron? I've lived in a few different states and I've never heard of this logic before. Yes, I SHOULD get a local state license but what I have currently is perfectly valid for driving in the entire US and California is a part of US.

I can't imagine why you didn't visit the CA DMV pages (link link) before moving here...

[b1st]

Originally Posted by FaRKle!

I can't imagine why you didn't visit the CA DMV pages (link link) before moving here...

I'd read it. It says that I need to have Cali license. It doesn't say that Cali considers out-of-state licenses invalid for its residents. I expected a slap on the wrist in some form of ticket/fine if I got caught but not something so draconian like "Driving without a license"

[Egrunt]

In California only active duty military and full time students are exempt from getting a California driver's license (CDL). Upon residing or working in California both are not required a driver has 10 days to get a CDL and if it applies 20 days to register their vehicle in California. When I was retiring from the Marine Corps in 2004 they gave us a class and I was electing to remain in California. Now I work as a LEO and unfortunately you where in violation of CVC 12500a.

The best thing to do is get your CDL and go to the first court date (the date on the ticket). This is called the arraignment date where it is just you and the Judge / Traffic Commissioner. The arraignment phase is used for contesting a ticket and entering a plea of not guilty. The citing officer will not be at the arraignment. You may be able to show your CDL to the presiding Judge / Traffic Commissioner and the issue may be resolved at the arraignment phase. If the presiding authority will only take the not guilty plea you will be assigned a trial date.

So what can the outcome be, I have seen Judges state it is a driver's responsibility to be familiar with the traffic laws of the state and not knowing the laws is not an excuse and the full fine was levied. I have also seen Judges take into the consideration the quickness the driver obtains a CDL and adjusts the fine. If memory serves me the fine for driving without a license is around $450.

I did not hear you mention having your vehicle impounded per CVC 22651p (driver unlicensed). In California a driver's vehicle can be impounded for being operated be an unlicensed driver.

I cannot speak how traffic matters are handled in the LA area. I work in San Diego County and can only speak to what I have witnessed in our jurisdiction.

[WestBankM4]

The cop wasn't being super unreasonable, if he was, you'd be figuring out what tow truck you want used in picking up your car while you find a ride.

I would suggest getting your CDL quickly and during your arraignment when asked for your plea say, "guilty with an explanation". The judge will allow you a few moments so be concise. You essentially didn't realize the laws in California regarding licensing, when you did you immediately made amends and got your CDL. Show him the proof and I guarantee he will make you pay a small fix it fee.

Good luck OP! You got this man!

[Fast4d]

CA wants that money that's why you need a CDL and register your vehicle in state.

[tooshay]

Welcome to California, the highest tax state. The state wants it money.

[b1st]

Originally Posted by Egrunt

In California only active duty military and full time students are exempt from getting a California driver's license (CDL). Upon residing or working in California both are not required a driver has 10 days to get a CDL and if it applies 20 days to register their vehicle in California. When I was retiring from the Marine Corps in 2004 they gave us a class and I was electing to remain in California. Now I work as a LEO and unfortunately you where in violation of CVC 12500a.

The best thing to do is get your CDL and go to the first court date (the date on the ticket). This is called the arraignment date where it is just you and the Judge / Traffic Commissioner. The arraignment phase is used for contesting a ticket and entering a plea of not guilty. The citing officer will not be at the arraignment. You may be able to show your CDL to the presiding Judge / Traffic Commissioner and the issue may be resolved at the arraignment phase. If the presiding authority will only take the not guilty plea you will be assigned a trial date.

So what can the outcome be, I have seen Judges state it is a driver's responsibility to be familiar with the traffic laws of the state and not knowing the laws is not an excuse and the full fine was levied. I have also seen Judges take into the consideration the quickness the driver obtains a CDL and adjusts the fine. If memory serves me the fine for driving without a license is around $450.

I did not hear you mention having your vehicle impounded per CVC 22651p (driver unlicensed). In California a driver's vehicle can be impounded for being operated be an unlicensed driver.

I cannot speak how traffic matters are handled in the LA area. I work in San Diego County and can only speak to what I have witnessed in our jurisdiction.

Thanks, this helps a ton.

Correct, my car was not impounded. Didn't realize that was an option. That would have ruined my day.

I'm not worried about the fine I'd have to pay as much as having the record of "driving without a license". How likely do you think the judge would change my charge to something else? Would having a lawyer help?

Finally, anyone have a lawyer recommendation in LA?

[Fast4d]

sherman ellison

not cheap but best traffic lawyer in the area.

[shoei]

I believe you have a short period of time when you relocate to California where you have to switch to a CA license / register your vehicle... There are some apartment complexes / town homes etc that require vehicles to have CA plates, unless active military. It is what it is...

You know that anything you say to a cop can be used against you at a later date... Keep it simple - pleading and reasoning doesn't generally bode well... You could've got off clean if you said you JUST moved or wanted to drive cross country. You volunteered that information willingly that you've been here six months and yada yada yah...

Driving without a license - that too you're putting way too much thought into it... Show up to court, let the judge know you had ZERO IDEA you had to switch over or you can even say you split your time evenly on both coasts due to work / family / climate, whatever you want... Be reasonable and apologetic and there is no reason they won't side with you and either reduce charge, fines, remove it etc... But I would show up to your court date with proof that you registered your vehicle now in CA and proof of your CADL... It's a minor thing and you're working yourself up over it to be completely honest...

[larryn]

Wait... you drove around in California for over 6 months with only expired European plates on, and you backed that up by not going to the DMV to get a state drivers license?

You're super lucky that your car did not get put in a lot somewhere. What you willingly chose to do was far from a wise choice - and you essentially drove around with a middle finger on your car where a proper license plate should be.

I can't imagine that any magistrate would view that you have a valid (or eve semi-valid) excuse on the license when taking into account how you approached registering your vehicle. Good luck.

[Cameronc08]

Cop was a douche. And no I don't care 'what the law states.' Assuming you were respectful and had everything in order. I actually was pulled over once for not having plates, and I was running somewhere without my license..well my license had my old address that I hadn't lived in years, never bothered changing it. And I told the cop that I hadn't changed the address yet and couldn't for the life of me remember my old address..he was like 'come on, it rhymes with ____' haha, I finally remembered and he let me off with a warning on everything and just said when I get a chance to take care of my license. And guess what he was such a nice guy and I took care of it. This site is full of uptight prudes so everyone's gonna say you're actually lucky here blah blah blah..but you weren't threatening the dudes life, and assuming you were respectful, and you HAD a license, the cop was just a typical prick, the kind that gives LA cops a bad name. Now I'll sit here and listen to people tell me how wrong I am and how the law is the law and you aren't an exception, and that cop could have been risking his life in this situation, etc etc..

[WestBankM4]

Originally Posted by Cameronc08

Cop was a douche. And no I don't care 'what the law states.' Assuming you were respectful and had everything in order.

He didn't have everything in "order", hence the ticket. The cop wasn't being unreasonable, if he was, he could have prosecuted OP to the fullest extent of the law. This means no CDL, no driving home.

[shoei]

Originally Posted by Cameronc08

Cop was a douche. And no I don't care 'what the law states.' Assuming you were respectful and had everything in order. I actually was pulled over once for not having plates, and I was running somewhere without my license..well my license had my old address that I hadn't lived in years, never bothered changing it. And I told the cop that I hadn't changed the address yet and couldn't for the life of me remember my old address..he was like 'come on, it rhymes with ____' haha, I finally remembered and he let me off with a warning on everything and just said when I get a chance to take care of my license. And guess what he was such a nice guy and I took care of it. This site is full of uptight prudes so everyone's gonna say you're actually lucky here blah blah blah..but you weren't threatening the dudes life, and assuming you were respectful, and you HAD a license, the cop was just a typical prick, the kind that gives LA cops a bad name. Now I'll sit here and listen to people tell me how wrong I am and how the law is the law and you aren't an exception, and that cop could have been risking his life in this situation, etc etc..

I think you're a bigger douche than the cop to be honest... This sense of self entitlement and resorting to calling everyone names like uptight pricks kind of solidifies that...

You stand on this soap box about how you are right and the laws are wrong, and your psychobabble makes no sense... Using your analogies, we should all not pay registration either or have license plates, no?

Op went half a year with euro plates... Doesn't matter if some cops chose to ignore it - end of the day, cop was doing his job... Sure, there was a high likelihood someone was getting robbed or murdered at the time of the citation, but fact remains that op was 100% in the wrong... Good thing we didn't have people like you working when ted bundy got apprehended going off of license plate (essentially a stolen vehicle) or when son of Sam got caught because of a parking ticket...

[Cameronc08]

Originally Posted by shoei

I think you're a bigger douche than the cop to be honest... This sense of self entitlement and resorting to calling everyone names like uptight pricks kind of solidifies that...

You stand on this soap box about how you are right and the laws are wrong, and your psychobabble makes no sense... Using your analogies, we should all not pay registration either or have license plates, no?

Op went half a year with euro plates... Doesn't matter if some cops chose to ignore it - end of the day, cop was doing his job... Sure, there was a high likelihood someone was getting robbed or murdered at the time of the citation, but fact remains that op was 100% in the wrong... Good thing we didn't have people like you working when ted bundy got apprehended going off of license plate (essentially a stolen vehicle) or when son of Sam got caught because of a parking ticket...

[mercedesc63]

Originally Posted by b1st

I got pulled over for not having proper plates... I still had expired euro plates on since cops didn't seem to care the first 6 months of ownership. Well, this particular cop cared. Fix it ticket... whatever, I don't care.

The bigger issue is that I moved from Washington DC several months ago and haven't bothered to get a California license. My thinking was that since my DC license is good for another year, might as well use it until it runs out and then get Cali license when I have to. Well, the cop disagreed with this logic. He said that since I've been living in Cali for more than 2 weeks, my DC license was invalid and I was driving without a license. I couldn't plea and reason with him. So he gave me a ticket for driving without a license, which is a misdemeanor.

I have my fun moments once in a while but I like to keep my records pretty clean... I think the last time I got a speeding ticket was like 4-5 yrs ago and nothing worse than that. Driving without a license sounds like a big deal and if someone heard it (my employer, future clients, law enforcement, etc) it sounds much bigger deal than it is since I DO have a valid driver's license issued by District of Columbia and I was planning on getting a Cali license soon. I could imagine the next time I get pulled over for speeding or something that the cops/judges won't give me break since now I have "driving without a license" on my record.

My questions are:

1. Was I actually driving without a license in the eyes of State of California or was this cop a moron? I've lived in a few different states and I've never heard of this logic before. Yes, I SHOULD get a local state license but what I have currently is perfectly valid for driving in the entire US and California is a part of US.
2. Is this actually a big deal or am I thinking too much into this? Anyone else been in this situation and how did it play out?
3. I do have to show up to the court. At the surface it seems that getting Cali license before the court date seems like a good idea. However, if I do that, the "driving without a license" record will make it into my Cali license. If I don't get Cali license, the record will go instead into my DC license, which will expire soon anyway. Am I over-analyzing this or is this how it all works?
4. Finally, perhaps I should get a lawyer. Can someone recommend one? I don't really want a record like that if I can avoid it. I'm in LA county and LA city.

My friend drives without front or rear plates religiously no issues.

I've driven for years on an out of state plates... no issues


I would just get a lawyer I don't think u did anything wrong and will easily get off on this ticket. Or maybe just pay it they won't even report it to Washington probably.

[sr/1]

The same thing happened to me years ago. I have IL plates, license, and insurance but spend time in LA. A cop wrote me up for invalid license.

I showed up to the arraignment in a suit and an envelope full of evidence that I was still an IL resident. The judge didn't look at anything and immediately threw it out.

Feel free to dm me if you have questions. I can also recommend an attorney if you need one.

[b1st]

Originally Posted by sr/1

The same thing happened to me years ago. I have IL plates, license, and insurance but spend time in LA. A cop wrote me up for invalid license.

I showed up to the arraignment in a suit and an envelope full of evidence that I was still an IL resident. The judge didn't look at anything and immediately threw it out.

Feel free to dm me if you have questions. I can also recommend an attorney if you need one.

Thanks sr/1, wish I had seen this post earlier.

So I suited up and went to the court today. I bought my newly minted CA license, fixed-up license plate ticket, 5-yr good driving record from DC, and proof of insurance. I go to the criminal window (it was marked as misdemeanor) and they told me that it was actually an infraction in their system. So I went to the traffic window, they wanted $427. I told them I'd thought it was $250 and they didn't seem to have any power. They said they could put me in front of the judge but I didn't wanna deal with it. So I just just paid up and now I'm home.

In retrospect I should have gone in front of the judge and try to get at least get the charge down to something different. But I was just surprised and also very happy that it wasn't a misdemeanor charge after all.

I did call Sherman Ellison. I spoke with his daughter who I believe is a paralegal there. She was very sweet and patient with me and explained a lot of things. She also said it'd cost $1700 for them to represent me at the court. So I declined. My reasoning was that if the judge didn't infract my ticket, then I'd plea not guilty and hire Sherman Ellison but thank god it didn't come to that.

[Fast4d]

thx for the update! glad it worked out without too much damage.

[Thescout13]

I have kept my Florida license since I was 21 and have lived in four other states. Any time this has happened to me I say I am just in town visiting or temporarily (which normally I was i.e. school or duty station). They ticket my old home address (my parents place in Florida) and my dad just forwards me any paperwork. Or as I started doing in my later years, have the US Postal Service forward all mail to me in California. The cop doesnt have to know that you do not live there anymore etc. You get out of this exact situation every time. If the cop insists on a local address I give them my local temporary (not really) address. If you run into the unfortunate event that you have that state?s license plate (which I have had in numerous states) I just say that I leased/financed the car though a local dealer because I got a good deal and come back to the state ever so often for work/vacation.

It is not a full proof plan and one day it will fail. But 5 states later, im still going.

Sometimes cops are just in a shitty mood. This did happen to a coworker of mine when we first started at this big law firm in LA as young bucks. He was so busy did not have time to change is Massachusetts license over to CA. Went to the court, apologized profusely and said that he just has not had the opportunity to given the pain in scheduling a DMV appt and getting away from work. But he got it before he went to court. The judge just threw it out and all he had to pay was the minimal court costs.

Also, see if maybe traffic school is an option in the alternative.

Edit: Saw that you got it handled. Congrats. Hopefully the above will help someone else