BMW M3 and M4 Lease Rates (36 months)

[MRCUR]

Originally Posted by m6pwr

I'm new here. So excuse me if this has been covered before. I'm going to lease a 2017 M4 thru BMW FS and am wondering what incentive, if any, BMW is currently giving for the leases. Depending on the time of year it used to be called holiday credit, or option credit, etc. Also I'm a USAA member. I believe they will give an incentive for leases. If so, does anyone know how much, based on their experience?

Thanks for the help.

Details of current programming are in the 2017 pricing/deals thread.

[1MORELAP]

Originally Posted by MRCUR

Details of current programming are in the 2017 pricing/deals thread.

I am sorry, isn't this that thread? Confused.

[MRCUR]

Originally Posted by 1MORELAP

I am sorry, isn't this that thread? Confused.

No, here is the 2017 thread: Official 2017 M3/4 Pricing thread (Deals/quotes/questions) http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1279690

[Naz24]

Any info on updated march rates?

[MRCUR]

Originally Posted by Naz24

Any info on updated march rates?

One post above... http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...postcount=2623

[MLAW702]

Originally Posted by jjrandorin

Thing is, (In my opinion), if you dont have all the numbers necessary to put into the wizard mode of leasematic, you dont have enough information to make a decision about the car.

For example, you need to ASK what the fees are from the dealer, and ask them to break them down. We know that the lease aquisition fee is 925. That is non negotiable. Registration can be calculated by looking at your states rules on registration, etc.

You need to ask the dealer for the fees (including official and unofficial fees). You need to decide if you want to cap the fees ("capitalize the fees", which means finance them, instead of paying them up front, thus increasing the amount financed, and increasing your monthly payment, every 1k financed adds roughly 30 ish dollars to your monthly).


Something else about "money down" You need to make sure you understand exactly what that term means, and what it doesnt mean.

"Money down" and " drive offs" are used interchangably by many but these terms are not necessarily interchangable.

MONEY DOWN = cap cost reduction, or money paid to reduce the amount financed. On a lease, the amount financed is fixed (and you dont end up with an asset at the end), so putting MONEY DOWN on the lease only masks how much you are actually paying.

DRIVE OFFS are what you pay to leave the dealership with the car. DRIVE OFFS include whatever MONEY DOWN you are using, plus any other fees etc you are paying up front.

EXAMPLE:

If a dealer tells you that this deal is with 5000 "money down", but the drive offs = around 2400, then what is ACTUALLY happening is, your 5k is being split for 2400 in fees, and 2600 in cap cost reduction which is the ACTUAL money down.

If a dealer says this deal includes only first months payment, and thats your "money down" thats incorrect. That would be your DRIVE OFF (first month payment), and the rest of it would be being financed into your loan (ADDDED to the cap cost.

Now, back to why MONEY DOWN is generally not recommended (even though paying your fees up front in your drive offs IS).

As I said, putting money down on a lease is just pre paying part of the fixed cost of the lease (UNLIKE putting money down on a FINANCE, which reduces your monthly payment, of an asset you will own at the end).

If you put 5k in actual CAP COST RECUCTION (unlikely in that 5k figure above but possible), then you take the 5k and divide it by the lease tyerm of 36 . Thats 138.88 a month. To find your ACTUAL cost monthly on that lease, you need to add 138.88 to the payment they quoted you (which is 885)... so your payment is NOT (repeat NOT ) 885... its 885 +138.88 that you pre paid, or 1023 a month! Why is this? Well that 5k does not just "go away" right? its money you paid.

An example I use is this:

Suppose you were leasing an apartment for 1k a month, and the lease on this apartment was for 3 years (no tax). That lease would be 12k a year or 36k for the three years, right?

Ok, so now we know that this apartment is 36k for the 3 years (lets assume its mandatory 3 years). BUT, now you want to put money down on the lease. You put 10k down on this apartment lease. So now, your amount owed on this lease WAS 36k but is now 26k because you gave them 10k up front. Does the 36k amount you are paying change? Nope, you just paid 10k of it up front but your total obligation was still 36k right?

Ok, now suppose you gave them the 10k and now owe 26k. Divide the 26k by the lease term (3 years or 36 months), and NOW you owe 722.22 a month.

You tell all your family and friends that you got a "great deal" on this 1k apartment that everyone else is paying 1k a month for, but YOU are only paying 722.22 a month for it due to your awesome negotiation skills.

You ARE paying 722.22 a month, but you paid 10k up front to GET that payment, and that 10k is 277.77 a month.. so you are ACTUALLY paying the same as everyone else, but just pre paying some of it /hiding it.

Now with a lease, there are some tax implications, etc but there is also some potential liability if you total the car and gap insurance comes into play (out of scope of this post).

its better to either use MSDs (which are security deposits, which you get back as long as you fulfill your lease obligations which you can control), or put the money in a separate account and pull from it to make your payments. Sometimes there is a payment threshhold that must be met ( maybe your wife / husband / significant other says you cant have a car more than "800 a month" or something, but you have this 10k sitting there that is agreed you can use for the car. You can set it aside in a separate account and just pull from it every month.

you can use it as multiple security deposits to reduce the interest rate you pay (although MSDs dont reduce your payment as much as cap cost reduction would, cap cost reduction just shifts it where MSDs actually reduce the finance charge so its actual savings, AND you get the MSDs back).

I am rambling (I tend to do that, sorry) but am posting this information for you and everyone else that is likely wondering why everyone always says dont put down payment, use MSDs... and for people who dont understand that down payment and drive offs are not exactly the same.

Regarding your specific deal post, the sales price is around the invoice of the car, and the money factor is close to the base rate. Use the wizard mode of lease matic, and if you dont have a piece of information to put in there to complete the calculations, ask your CA for it.

EDIT:

Forgot to answer your MSD amount question (although it was already answered). MSDs are "multiple security deposits" and they are 1 payment, routed up to the nearest $50. Thus, if your payment is anywhere between 600.01 and 649.99, the amount for an MSD on that contract will be 650 per, up to a maximum of 7 total. Each MSD gives a rate reduction on money factor of .00007. Supposing our example payment is 885, each MSD would be 900. The maximum 7 MSDs would be 7 X 900 (6300) which would reduce the money factor .00049 (probably somewhere around $50 a month or so just eyeballing it and not calculating it).

You get the MSDs back at the end of the lease provided you fulfill your lease obligation (that part is important). That means do not default on the lease, etc. When you return the car to BMW FS (the owner) at the end of the lease, if you have any lease end charges on your account, your MSDs will be used to pay those charges and the balance will be returned to you after. This means BMW will not need to "bill and chase" you for lease end charges like excessive dings / dents etc on your lease.

You are obligated to deal with those anyway (of course there can be exceptions if the dealer buys the car as is, instead of turning it back in, etc etc), but its important to note that any lease end charges would be applied to the MSDs.

You dont lose the MSDs if you total the car however, at least according to what I have read and asked, and a persons personal account on the "other big bmw blog" (I am not sure what rules are here for mentioning other blogs by name).

That other blog has a really nice stickied thread about MSDs, that covers most of this.

you in the car business ?

[jjrandorin]

Originally Posted by MLAW702

you in the car business ?

Im flattered, but no, I am not and have never been in any aspect of the car business.

I work in IT actually (and IT people are generally good at finding answers to their questions on the internet, as a rule). I researched a lot of the stuff I know when I started looking for my own first (new) BMWs in 2013.

Also, there was a pretty prolific poster named Ninong who was an auto industry lifer, who had retired who used to answer everyones questions... kind of like a permanent redddit style AMA (ask me anything). He had worked for a couple different brands, including BMW, and been a finance manager (THE finance manager) as well as the sales manager for a BMW Dealership for over a decade. He was retired, and FULL of knowledge, and helpful. I took notes on evertything he said.

Those of us who had shared PMs with him knew that he was actually pretty ill, and sort of spending his last days still trying to help people get into BMWs with no incentive other than "being helpful".

I didnt want his knowledge to go to waste, so I sort of took up his role, providing all the information I had learned from him (mostly over at bimmerfest). I have filled that role over at bimmerfest for about a year now. I just recently decided to become active here though.


I like helping people, and wanted to continue to honor his efforts to help everyone. My father was a college professor, and part of my job (what I get paid to do) is translating IT speak into "normal human language" for decision makers to make decisions about it (lol), so I believe I explain things pretty well once I understand them.

My biggest issue is, in the effort to be helpful, many times I over explain (like I am doing right now).


I am explaining because I am sure there are some who wonder "where the heck did jjrandorin come from!??!?!"

[morf13]

So what is a good deal for a 2017 m3 lease payment ? (10k miles)

[MRCUR]

Originally Posted by morf13

So what is a good deal for a 2017 m3 lease payment ? (10k miles)

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1279690

[Grychen]

Originally Posted by jjrandorin

Im flattered, but no, I am not and have never been in any aspect of the car business.

I work in IT actually (and IT people are generally good at finding answers to their questions on the internet, as a rule). I researched a lot of the stuff I know when I started looking for my own first (new) BMWs in 2013.

Also, there was a pretty prolific poster named Ninong who was an auto industry lifer, who had retired who used to answer everyones questions... kind of like a permanent redddit style AMA (ask me anything). He had worked for a couple different brands, including BMW, and been a finance manager (THE finance manager) as well as the sales manager for a BMW Dealership for over a decade. He was retired, and FULL of knowledge, and helpful. I took notes on evertything he said.

Those of us who had shared PMs with him knew that he was actually pretty ill, and sort of spending his last days still trying to help people get into BMWs with no incentive other than "being helpful".

I didnt want his knowledge to go to waste, so I sort of took up his role, providing all the information I had learned from him (mostly over at bimmerfest). I have filled that role over at bimmerfest for about a year now. I just recently decided to become active here though.


I like helping people, and wanted to continue to honor his efforts to help everyone. My father was a college professor, and part of my job (what I get paid to do) is translating IT speak into "normal human language" for decision makers to make decisions about it (lol), so I believe I explain things pretty well once I understand them.

My biggest issue is, in the effort to be helpful, many times I over explain (like I am doing right now).


I am explaining because I am sure there are some who wonder "where the heck did jjrandorin come from!??!?!"

Hahaha, this statement makes you my favorate person in this forum!! (Don't wanna say most respected because that produces distance and does not garantee I take the most away from you )

[IS350]

Can you share M2 numbers, please?
Also, do you have the M3/4 2018 my rates?

[firedown31]

Originally Posted by IS350

Can you share M2 numbers, please?
Also, do you have the M3/4 2018 my rates?

M3/4 numbers are always posted as soon as they're available by GOLFFRR here for 2017s
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1279690

and here for 2018s
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1349306

There are no rates for 2018 M3s yet.

GOLFFRR also does the same for the M2 here
http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1232209

[IS350]

Originally Posted by firedown31

M3/4 numbers are always posted as soon as they're available by GOLFFRR here for 2017s
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1279690

and here for 2018s
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1349306

There are no rates for 2018 M3s yet.

GOLFFRR also does the same for the M2 here
http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1232209

Thanks!

[John Dinkel]

Thanks. This info is very helpful.

[jameshp]

Hello All. First time poster. I am in the DC area and am excited to finally be getting an M3. I have a deal I would like to post and get your thoughts on. I will try to copy the details into the message. Forgive me in advance for any miscues!

James,
Per your conversation I am sending you the M3 build.
Thanks

Term: 36 months
Allowance : 12,000


Model
17TN M3 Sedan
USD 64,000.00

Color
A29 Silverstone Metallic
700.00
Upholstery
LKSW Black Extended Merino Leather
950.00
Options
ZCP Competition Package
4,750.00
ZLP Lighting Package
1,900.00
552 Adaptive Full LED Lights
N/C
5AC Automatic high beams
N/C
7MN M Competition package
N/C
21T 20" M lt/Alu wheel star-spk666
N/C
7M9 BMW Ind Shadow Line Ext Cont
N/C
7MA Competition Package
N/C
2MK M Double-clutch Transmission
2,900.00
403 Moonroof
N/C
415 Power rear sunshade
575.00
417 Rear manual side window shades
N/C
4WL Carbon Fiber Trim with Blk Chr
N/C
5AP Decoding for no-dazzle hgh bm
N/C
8S4 Variable Light Decoding
N/C
925 Shipping package
N/C
9AA Transport protection
N/C
ZAC Connected App Compatibility
N/C
ZTM Tier 2
N/C

Net Total
75,775.00

Total Suggested Price
76,770.00

The CA said after the USAA and all discounts, the final price would be $70,500.00 with a payment of between $850-890 depending on credit. Also, the money factor may come down a bit if credit is good.

[jjrandorin]

Originally Posted by jameshp

Hello All. First time poster. I am in the DC area and am excited to finally be getting an M3. I have a deal I would like to post and get your thoughts on. I will try to copy the details into the message. Forgive me in advance for any miscues!

James,
Per your conversation I am sending you the M3 build.
Thanks

Term: 36 months
Allowance : 12,000


Model
17TN M3 Sedan
USD 64,000.00

Color
A29 Silverstone Metallic
700.00
Upholstery
LKSW Black Extended Merino Leather
950.00
Options
ZCP Competition Package
4,750.00
ZLP Lighting Package
1,900.00
552 Adaptive Full LED Lights
N/C
5AC Automatic high beams
N/C
7MN M Competition package
N/C
21T 20" M lt/Alu wheel star-spk666
N/C
7M9 BMW Ind Shadow Line Ext Cont
N/C
7MA Competition Package
N/C
2MK M Double-clutch Transmission
2,900.00
403 Moonroof
N/C
415 Power rear sunshade
575.00
417 Rear manual side window shades
N/C
4WL Carbon Fiber Trim with Blk Chr
N/C
5AP Decoding for no-dazzle hgh bm
N/C
8S4 Variable Light Decoding
N/C
925 Shipping package
N/C
9AA Transport protection
N/C
ZAC Connected App Compatibility
N/C
ZTM Tier 2
N/C

Net Total
75,775.00

Total Suggested Price
76,770.00

The CA said after the USAA and all discounts, the final price would be $70,500.00 with a payment of between $850-890 depending on credit. Also, the money factor may come down a bit if credit is good.

Money factor come down from what exactly? What fees are they charging you?

[bb1857]

Originally Posted by jameshp

Hello All. First time poster. I am in the DC area and am excited to finally be getting an M3. I have a deal I would like to post and get your thoughts on. I will try to copy the details into the message. Forgive me in advance for any miscues!

James,
Per your conversation I am sending you the M3 build.
Thanks

Term: 36 months
Allowance : 12,000


Model
17TN M3 Sedan

Net Total
75,775.00

Total Suggested Price
76,770.00

The CA said after the USAA and all discounts, the final price would be $70,500.00 with a payment of between $850-890 depending on credit. Also, the money factor may come down a bit if credit is good.

Post the deal breakdown and we can help more. You should be working off base money factor because BMW FS does not have a tiered system. If you are approved, you are approved for the best rate available. That's a line a 1980's shit that dealers try to pull on people. Tell them to factor payment using base MF and get us all the fees, and how and where they are crediting any money you are giving up front. Certainly want to help you get a good deal but need more info to do so.

BTW the price itself is pretty good but they are playing some games with the MF. Is this a NoVA or MD dealer? NoVA dealers have much higher dealer proc fees which is annoying. MD dealer should be $299 and NoVA dealer should be $599 out of the gate. These are negotiable numbers but many of them don't want to budge off them.

[jameshp]

thanks everyone for your replies and help.. I have asked for the breakdown you suggested bb1857 and jjrandorin. Yes its NoVa. I know it sucks with all the fees and taxes!

[jjrandorin]

Originally Posted by bb1857

Post the deal breakdown and we can help more. You should be working off base money factor because BMW FS does not have a tiered system. If you are approved, you are approved for the best rate available. That's a line a 1980's shit that dealers try to pull on people. Tell them to factor payment using base MF and get us all the fees, and how and where they are crediting any money you are giving up front. Certainly want to help you get a good deal but need more info to do so.

BTW the price itself is pretty good but they are playing some games with the MF. Is this a NoVA or MD dealer? NoVA dealers have much higher dealer proc fees which is annoying. MD dealer should be $299 and NoVA dealer should be $599 out of the gate. These are negotiable numbers but many of them don't want to budge off them.

Thats false information... at least from what I have (which comes from a practicing CA who is on another board, so not someone I am working on a deal with).

Now, Dealers many times mark up the money factor on people with the "top tier" credit, so MF is always "negotiable" between a .00040 markup percentage, provided someone qualifies for the top tier. If you dont, then theoretically its negotiable between the lower percentages, but in practice the lower your credit the less they will negotiate the markup.

As an example... MF is .00150 to .00190 Negotiable between a dealer and you for top tier credit right now. If you have lower credit than the "top" the MF slides down (see the data below). If you were "standard Plus" for example (see chart below), that would be a .00030 MF adder, so that would be theoretically between .00180 and .00220... but you wont get .00180 if your credit score is that "low".. the dealer WILL mark it up the max.

Just like everything else that requires credit, the less you need it, the more they want to give to you.



Here is the current information related to BMW FS credit tiers (again, from a current BMW CA posting on another BMW blog to help members.. you can choose to believe it or not, but I happen to believe him... and the date on this information he posted was 04/05/2017, so its current as of april 2017 at least)

=================================

BMW FS has changed the Tiers:
Super Elite/Elite 700+: No rate adder
Standard 675-699: 0.00010 MF adder; 1% on retail APR
Standard Plus 640-674: 0.00030 MF adder; 3% on retail APR
Progressive 601-639: 0.00050 MF adder; 5% on retail APR
Progressive Plus 575-600: 0.00070 MF adder; 7% on retail APR

[jameshp]

So here is the response I got from the CA

Money factor, based on credit, ranges usually from .00150 to .00190. The residual for 12k miles per year is 61%
$76,770
Selling price - $72,500
Cash down $4900
Rebate - $2000
Document fee - $300
Acquistion fee - $925
Va taxes for tags fee - $147.50
Va taxes for Virginia property tax estimate - $10,550
Monthly payment is $889.34
This is all based on a credit score of 859-889.

Not sure where the cash down amount came from. I told him first months payment, taxes and tags.

[bb1857]

Originally Posted by jameshp

So here is the response I got from the CA

Money factor, based on credit, ranges usually from .00150 to .00190. The residual for 12k miles per year is 61%
$76,770
Selling price - $72,500
Cash down $4900
Rebate - $2000
Document fee - $300
Acquistion fee - $925
Va taxes for tags fee - $147.50
Va taxes for Virginia property tax estimate - $10,550
Monthly payment is $889.34
This is all based on a credit score of 859-889.

Not sure where the cash down amount came from. I told him first months payment, taxes and tags.

VA is weird to deal with on taxes because you have the standard tax rate then the personal property tax. Something doesnt seem right with this because when i run it thru a lease calculator I get very different numbers. You should definitely be getting the base money factor of .00150 with that credit score.

What is the $4900 covering? Is that the total you are giving them or did he work the deal as $4900 down plus tax, tags, and first payment?

Also is the sale price before the rebate because many times they try to sneak the rebate in the sales price upfront?

Sorry for all the questions but just trying to get you as informed as possible.

Also apologies on my post earlier with misinformation. Years ago when i was a finance manager for BMW there were no tiers and I have always got the best rate due to my friendships at local dealers so I just assumed it was still the case.

[jameshp]

No need to apologize!! I appreciate and value your input. I will ask about the rebate. I have been reading the forum and what I've understood is not to put money down, just first month, taxes and tags. Is this correct?