06-20-2013, 03:40 AM | #331 |
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i can see audi switching, because they have in the past. but AMG is known for the v8s. I can see them making a the turbo v8 more so than anyone else.
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06-20-2013, 06:33 AM | #332 | |
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Though the fact is that both have used FI V6 engines in this class in the past - not just Audi; I agree with you that Audi seems more eager to downsize the number of cylinders in their products. |
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06-20-2013, 07:33 AM | #333 | |
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Also in the past Audi RS was more involved in hp-wars with AMG than the M-GmbH ... so I donīt think they wouldnīt give the RS4/5 an snaller engine than AMG would put into its C55(?)/63. |
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06-20-2013, 08:24 AM | #334 | |
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S3/TT-S/R4:.................2.0l I4 ~300 PS RS3/TT-RS/R4:.............2.4l I5 ~350-400 PS S4/S5:.........................3.0l V6 ~350-400 PS RS4/RS5:.....................3.0l V6 ~450-500 PS S6/S7:.........................4.0l V8 ~450-500 PS RS6/RS7:.....................4.0l V8 ~550-600 PS R8:.............................3.0l V6 ~450 PS & 4.0l V8 ~600 PS Gallardo II:..................4.0l V8 ~600-650 PS 4.0l V8 also for Bentley. W12 is exclusive. Mercedes engine in future look other wise: 1.5l I3 (Mercedes) 2.0l I4 (Mercedes & AMG) 3.0l I6 (Mercedes) 4.0l V8 (Mercedes & AMG up to 700 PS) 6.0l V12 (Exclsuive Mercedes & AMG also for Pagani) A sure bet is that all M engine will be based on AG engines. Yet it, depends on what will power M2 (I4 or I6) and M4 (I6 or V6) and which. However this is certain: 1.5l I3 1.6l I4 (BMW-PSA) (not sure for how long and if it will be completely replaced by I3) 2.0l I4 3.0l I6 4.0l V8 (will replace current 4.4l V8, could come with next generation X6 or new X7). 6.0l V12 (BMW exclusive, M version not impossible) 6.6l V12 (Rolls Royce Exclusive) V16 (Rolls Royce Exclusive, yet to be confirmed in next Phantom). In the next 2 years new turbocharged I4, V6 and V8 engines should be powering Lexus cars. Next generation IS-F/RC-F engine is yet unknown, either FI V6 or NA V8. Last edited by BMW269; 06-20-2013 at 08:40 AM.. |
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06-20-2013, 09:26 AM | #335 |
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The engine is already developed and sitting under the hood of the 2014 Panamera, as Levi said. It is a 90 degree V6 just like the current supercharged engine which it will eventually replace in all of its current states of tune.
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06-20-2013, 09:47 AM | #336 |
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Always been based, but still totally difference and next F80 M3 is no exception, because of red line, you just blow your engine if you try rev basic N55 7500-8000rpm. I think also that M-division never make engine which dead on high revs, what also has been speculate.
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06-22-2013, 01:54 PM | #337 | |
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The E9X M3 really made people forget about M's true heritage.
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06-22-2013, 05:39 PM | #338 | |
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But at least they put in a little effort in making them different I think the difference between the n55 and the s55 will be much smaller Both will be turbo No individual throttle bodies ( which other than the parts bin 1m) was the norm Now with the m5 and m3 It's basically a stock engine plus a different tune The problem I see is why am I paying so much more for the m3/4 now? It's not for bespoke parts anymore The m3/4 will become a 335 plus a tune Which I can add to the 335 for less than a $1000
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06-23-2013, 02:14 AM | #339 | |
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So how much they share parts? I think not much, inter alia? Crank, cylinder head, rods, cams and block is difference on S54 compare to M54, so I think there must be same like difference compared N55 and S55, higher red line need stronger bearings to eliminate increasing forces. Cylinder head need flow better and cams need to be difference if engine delivers power on higher revs. |
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06-23-2013, 04:08 AM | #340 | |
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Best regards, south
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06-23-2013, 07:01 AM | #341 |
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06-23-2013, 07:10 AM | #342 | |
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And here I was under the impression thst the R&D money was spent on making the M engines produce more power and perform better while still being as durable and reliable than what they started with, if not more so. For the S63, they switched from single scroll turbos to dual scrolls and developed a completely new induction system to decrease turbo lag. So this is not just an ECU tune at all. They also added Vavletronic throttle control to that engine before it made its way to the N63. And they did that even though redline was increased to 7200RPM, higher than previously possible. For the S55 we already know they are increasing the number of turbos and raising the redline by even more vs the series engine. It's not going to be just an N55 with a tune - not even close. There is also strong likelihood of some innovative induction setup that addresses turbo lag - probably even more effectively than what was done with the S63. If Valvetronic means better throttle response than ITBs, then that's what they'll use and indeed it would be foolish not to. If power goals can be met by keeping displacement unchanged (which stands to reason when forced induction is being used) then not increasing the bore size and having to switch to a heavy iron block is clearly the right choice. If you are just looking for an engine that ticks the boxes on an arbitrary list of possible changes from some other engine, I'd say you've missed the point and misunderstood the engineering motivations behind previous M division efforts altogether. |
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06-23-2013, 07:21 AM | #343 | |
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It wasn't just about power, as they were normally behind audi and mb on the power front It was about making great engines, with instant throttle response Which I truly think ended at the S65 Anyway, my next car won't be an m3/4 After 4 M3s, I no longer see the point of buying them What made them special is no longer true So I don't see the need to pay such a premium
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06-23-2013, 07:37 AM | #344 | |||
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06-23-2013, 07:49 AM | #345 |
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It is not yet the end of NA engine, at least not at Porsche, and if you can afford an M3/M5, you can afford a Porsche. Hybrid technology is going to permit to have NA engine. Examples: LaFerrari, 918 Spyder, NSX II,...
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06-23-2013, 12:53 PM | #346 | |
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I think we've grown too much apart now I am getting a car that has similar performance to the M3, maybe a little faster acceleration. Significantly lighter (47% lighter to be exact) Better fuel economy No power steering vs electric ps in new m3 And probably I'd guess about $20K less And more exclusive as well
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06-23-2013, 12:54 PM | #347 |
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I will be driving the same brand as you
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06-24-2013, 06:12 AM | #348 |
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Sure, but I am talking about cars both in the M3/M4 price range and that offer similar range of utility. I suppose there is the next IS-F, and non-luxury cars like a Mustang or Camaro. Not much else comes to mind.
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06-24-2013, 06:29 AM | #349 | |
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I'm sure you'll enjoy the Cayman. Great car if you don't need a daily driver with passenger capability or if you are content to admire your fun car while it sits in the garage all week. In fact it always amazes me how many people move to sports cars only after realizing that an M3 or car X, Y or Z is not one. The backseat is there for a reason: to transport people . If you don't need it, by all means don't pay the weight penalty.
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06-24-2013, 11:14 AM | #350 | |
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Why? M3 is know for being the most sporty practical car. In fact from most people RS5/C AMG is more of a sportscar than a Toyota GT86. Why? Because of power and fast acceleration. M3 has yet handling like Toyota GT86. |
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06-24-2013, 11:52 AM | #351 |
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"I'm sure you'll enjoy the Cayman."
To me it looks like he is eyeing the Alfa 4C. That is one spectacular looking car from design to specifications. If I could fit my kids I would be on the pre-booking list. I would prefer a car like this with an MT though. Strange choice to go purist with no PS and then fit an autobox only. |
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06-24-2013, 12:05 PM | #352 | |
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Well sure, but the whole point is that you can increase performance by sacrificing practicality.
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