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05-12-2014, 04:35 PM | #287 |
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My fairly well equipped E92 DCT M3 weighs (without driver) 3688lb with an almost full tank of fuel. BMW claims a 138lb weight reduction for a comparably equipped DCT M4. I expect my M4 (which will be very comparably equipped as my E92) to weigh 3550lb with an almost full tank of fuel. I think it is very realistic. If not, I will be dissapointed with the BMW Marketing .
As I have stated before, I trust that the weight reduction numbers presented are fairly accurate. I don't trust the absolute DIN numbers (3300/3350lb) or the US curb presented by BMW though. |
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05-12-2014, 04:50 PM | #288 | |
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05-12-2014, 06:37 PM | #289 | |
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05-12-2014, 08:52 PM | #290 |
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I'm all for reducing weight by replacing components with lighter, yet equally strong or stronger components. A case in point is the CF drive shaft. When it comes to replacing equipment with flimsy, cheap material, however - not so much. An example that comes to mind is the use of thinner glass in the new Z28. I feel even worse when they charge you extra for removing stuff.
Yes the DCT is heavier, coming as is it does from the M5/6 parts bin with some tweaks. Being the ever optimist that I am having committed myself to drop over $100 K on a car, I prefer to think of the tranny as being beefier rather than fatter. Sure, it could be made super light if it were, for instance, made from parts printed with a 3D printer - but would it be rated for more than 600 hp as surely it must if they are using it in the M5/6? I'm not knocking on the manual. Just trying to point out that lighter does not always = better in all applications.
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05-12-2014, 08:57 PM | #291 | |
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05-12-2014, 09:02 PM | #292 | |
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05-12-2014, 09:07 PM | #293 | |
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05-12-2014, 09:48 PM | #294 | |
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"Under 3,306 lb (1500kg) weight ◦this figure is without driver and with 90% fuel." They didn't say target, it was specified under "SPECS." That the car is bigger was a known fact then, so you can use it now to make excuse for the marketing "error." I suppose you can backtrack and say you didn't "promise" or it was "just a target" etc. But then you expect that from politicians or used car salesmen, not Official M3 M4 Specs from BMW. |
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05-12-2014, 10:06 PM | #295 | |
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What I was 'searching for' (had you read the thread) was the post 'promising' E46 weight (which, as I was pointing out, it didn't actually do). When the car was released, what BMW said was it had an 80kg or 176 lb savings over E92 - which is what the OP seems to show...... BMW's claimed weights are always low. Like many say the claimed HP is low. Nothing new there.....comparing actual car to actual car the F80 does seem to land between a (noticeably smaller E46) and the E92. Losing 170 lbs is a good thing. In your expert searching, have you found a scale weighed E46 to compare to these numbers? How close is the F80 to those? (What I find are numbers around 3,400-3,450 lbs scaled for the E46.....meaning it wouldn't hit 3,300 itself) Last edited by myzmak; 05-12-2014 at 10:18 PM.. Reason: I felt like adding more. So I did. So there. Sue me or something |
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05-12-2014, 10:16 PM | #296 |
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Others from Europe have mentioned that the 3,300 weight is the true "stripper" weight because of TUV/EU regulations. TUV certificates are produced for all sorts of automotive components such as wheels, I would really like to see the one for the new M3--suspect it was all for marketing/initial headline grabbing.
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05-12-2014, 11:16 PM | #297 |
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It's not as though the M5/6 parts bin was full of shite though? Am I off base in thinking that the beefier tranny from its high HP stablemates will mean a tranny that can not only handle more HP but also more abuse? Built Bavarian Tough? I'm cuing a good truck commercial jingo here for effect. They advertise trucks a lot out here in the wild west.
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05-12-2014, 11:53 PM | #298 | |
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Put another way, that amount of weight is similar to the difference between a passenger or no passenger.
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05-13-2014, 02:28 AM | #299 | |
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05-13-2014, 02:37 AM | #300 | |
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05-13-2014, 08:25 AM | #301 |
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Ditto. I've said it elsewhere, but I can tell the difference with my dad (140 lbs) in the car, but I cannot tell the difference with my nephew (80 lbs). So somewhere between there (80 and 140 lbs) is the crossover for my butt dyno.
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05-13-2014, 08:32 AM | #302 |
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At the track I've gone back to back sessions w/o and then w/ a buddy that is about 280. That's noticeable.
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05-13-2014, 08:37 AM | #303 | |
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05-13-2014, 08:43 AM | #304 | |
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1) You can't subtract the weight of a CF roof from the E90 M3, because there was no CF roof available from the factory. Sunroof delete is a valid comparison. 2) Valid comparison. 3) Were both cars shod with factory wheels? If so, I don't know what compensation is required to do a factory-to-factory comparison. 4) The base F80 is very well optioned compared to the E90 cars. the biggest offender I can think of would be the heated seats, but are we certain the F80 didn't have them? I think the XX and YY values from your list are going to be negligible if you're comparing factory equipment. Then again, maybe the F80 was equipped with a wheel that wasn't factory. I don't see photos of the car in that post, so I can't make that evaluation. Don't get me wrong. I agree that the weight savings was oversold, and I don't intend to give BMW a pass, but I think some of the comparisons being made are pushing the needle too far in the other direction.
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05-13-2014, 09:51 AM | #305 | |
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I am leery of anyone making assumptions and calculations on weight savings based on hypotheticals. Take 2 cars, from factory, equipped the same, and compare on the same scale, same conditions, etc. That is the only really fair comparison. As that may/may not be possible, I agree with @js919: lets look to the fact that BMW USA says a 6MT weighs 3540lbs, which is damn close to what the scale weight was here. 3,300 was never a real world figure. As I noted above, even the E46 "target" weighed at least 100-150 lbs more than that. |
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05-13-2014, 10:10 AM | #306 |
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And look at what BMW has done with m cars this generation. They all feel lighter than they are and have underrated engines to give them the performance of lighter cars.
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05-13-2014, 10:43 AM | #307 | |
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05-13-2014, 10:49 AM | #308 | |||
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