Anyone do camber plates on ZCP without lowering?

[Ilikemike]

I may track the car once or twice but mostly it will be a DD and was I wondering if there is a noticeable change in steering feel with just changing the camber plates, (without installing lowering springs). I will also be replacing the thrust arm ( I think that's what it's called and can't check at the moment ) bushing with a bearing, Rogue or Dinan likely. BTW, Impossible to lower the car unless I move to a new home with a 'normal' driveway. Lol.

[OhioRiderAaron]

ZCP owner here. I'm running OEM adaptive suspension with TCKline camber plates. Steering feel is improved, and understeer is reduced even more. I also coded in the GTS steering which combined with the camber plates gives pretty decent feel upfront. I've been daily driving this setup all spring and summer without issue. I would suggest 5-10mm spacers for the front though, as the extra camber tucks the front wheels under the fenders quite a bit. Any other questions give me a shout! Good luck

Aaron

[Ilikemike]

Originally Posted by OhioRiderAaron

ZCP owner here. I'm running OEM adaptive suspension with TCKline camber plates. Steering feel is improved, and understeer is reduced even more. I also coded in the GTS steering which combined with the camber plates gives pretty decent feel upfront. I've been daily driving this setup all spring and summer without issue. I would suggest 5-10mm spacers for the front though, as the extra camber tucks the front wheels under the fenders quite a bit. Any other questions give me a shout! Good luck

Aaron

Thanks Aaron, where did the GTS software come from, factory? How many degrees of offset are you running?
Mike

[OhioRiderAaron]

Originally Posted by Ilikemike

Thanks Aaron, where did the GTS software come from, factory? How many degrees of offset are you running?
Mike

You can "code" the GTS settings with Esys. Venture over to the "DIY and Coding Discussion" if you're interested. Very simple and easy to do.

I am running 10mm spacers all around. Its just about perfect and it doesn't rub in street/track setting.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by Ilikemike

I may track the car once or twice but mostly it will be a DD and was I wondering if there is a noticeable change in steering feel with just changing the camber plates, (without installing lowering springs). I will also be replacing the thrust arm ( I think that's what it's called and can't check at the moment ) bushing with a bearing, Rogue or Dinan likely. BTW, Impossible to lower the car unless I move to a new home with a 'normal' driveway. Lol.

Steering feel will improve and you will get more feedback from the road.

Dinan and RE are both good choice. SPL also has a good upgraded monoball:

http://www.hpashop.com/SPL-FKS-Front...8X-SPL-FKS.htm

Or a fully adjustable thrust arm to:

http://www.hpashop.com/SPL-TITANIUM-...nsion-Rods.htm

[CanAutM3]

If you plan to track the car only once or twice, there isn't really a need for you to get camber plates. The main driver for camber plates is to prolong track tire life. It is mostly caster that will will increase steering feedback, so unless you get plates that either have caster adjustability or statically increase caster, steering feel will not change that much. It is important to know that camber plates will increase NVH, which is not desirable for a mostly street driven car. And lastly but not least, do you have spacers? Altering the front offset can be the biggest culprit for killing steering feel and feedback as it alters the scrub radius and required Ackerman angle when the wheels are steered.

[OhioRiderAaron]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

If you plan to track the car only once or twice, there isn't really a need for you to get camber plates. The main driver for camber plates is to prolong track tire life. It is mostly caster that will will increase steering feedback, so unless you get plates that either have caster adjustability or statically increase caster, steering feel will not change that much. It is important to know that camber plates will increase NVH, which is not desirable for a mostly street driven car. And lastly but not least, do you have spacers? Altering the front offset can be the biggest culprit for killing steering feel and feedback as it alters the scrub radius and require Ackerman angle when the wheels are steered.

Agreed, if only 1-2 events per year, won't warrant camber plates on the ZCP. Street conditions the car really doesn't understeer (driving around speed limits). 3+ events then it makes it worth it for improved tire wear and laptimes

Can, I didn't notice any loss of steering feel when doing the spacers + GTS coding. Seems better than ever IMO. However, the camber plates did increase NVH.

[Woodengun]

The monoball will give more steering feel. Keep in mind that these aftermarket monoballs need regular replacement. How often depends on the driving environment.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by Woodengun

The monoball will give more steering feel. Keep in mind that these aftermarket monoballs need regular replacement. How often depends on the driving environment.

Yep, they aren't meant to last forever.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by OhioRiderAaron

Can, I didn't notice any loss of steering feel when doing the spacers + GTS coding.

That's because there is not much there to lose to start with . But if you pay close attention going back and forth, you can notice there is less feedback with the spacers on (I tried with 12mm).

Kidding aside, what I find most increased steering feedback is the tires. The 265/35R19 (M0) I have up front made the steering more "alive". The steering was even better when I had the rear 275/35R19(*) installed up front, but those tires were just not suitable as front tires . When I have my 275/35R18 NT01 installed, the steering feel is actually quite good .

[Ilikemike]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

If you plan to track the car only once or twice, there isn't really a need for you to get camber plates. The main driver for camber plates is to prolong track tire life. It is mostly caster that will will increase steering feedback, so unless you get plates that either have caster adjustability or statically increase caster, steering feel will not change that much. It is important to know that camber plates will increase NVH, which is not desirable for a mostly street driven car. And lastly but not least, do you have spacers? Altering the front offset can be the biggest culprit for killing steering feel and feedback as it alters the scrub radius and required Ackerman angle when the wheels are steered.

All your comments are very helpful, Thanks!
I do not run spacers, primarily due to your (CANAUT) perspective on the matter...

[OhioRiderAaron]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

That's because there is not much there to lose to start with . But if you pay close attention going back and forth, you can notice there is less feedback with the spacers on (I tried with 12mm).

Kidding aside, what I find most increased steering feedback is the tires. The 265/35R19 (M0) I have up front made the steering more "alive". The steering was even better when I had the rear 275/35R19(*) installed up front, but those tires were just not suitable as front tires . When I have my 275/35R18 NT01 installed, the steering feel is actually quite good .

Yeah you're right, we're splitting hairs when talking about steering feel and the F-series

I agree, tires can make a big difference. Going from an all-season or summer tire to extreme performance tire can help a lot.

[CPWINCH]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

If you plan to track the car only once or twice, there isn't really a need for you to get camber plates. The main driver for camber plates is to prolong track tire life. It is mostly caster that will will increase steering feedback, so unless you get plates that either have caster adjustability or statically increase caster, steering feel will not change that much. It is important to know that camber plates will increase NVH, which is not desirable for a mostly street driven car. And lastly but not least, do you have spacers? Altering the front offset can be the biggest culprit for killing steering feel and feedback as it alters the scrub radius and required Ackerman angle when the wheels are steered.

One of the biggest advantages is definitely track tires life. i really do believe they improve the feel of the car on the street too though. I think camber plates are a great mod even if you only track once or twice a year.

I totally agree with you that it is overkill for a street build but I personally noticed an increase in turn in response and steering feel when I installed plates on my builds. I run over 3 degrees on my daily driver. One day at the track without proper front camber will do some serious work to your tires.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by CPWINCH

One of the biggest advantages is definitely track tires life. i really do believe they improve the feel of the car on the street too though. I think camber plates are a great mod even if you only track once or twice a year.

I totally agree with you that it is overkill for a street build but I personally noticed an increase in turn in response and steering feel when I installed plates on my builds. I run over 3 degrees on my daily driver. One day at the track without proper front camber will do some serious work to your tires.

OP mentioned tracking one or twice without a timeframe reference, so I assumed it was over the course of ownership. For that little track time, I don't believe the drawbacks of camber plates are worth it for the benefit they provide.

I agree with you though, the car feels more planted on the street with more eagerness on turn-in with a good alignment.

[Ilikemike]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

OP mentioned tracking one or twice without a timeframe reference, so I assumed it was over the course of ownership. For that little track time, I don't believe the drawbacks of camber plates are worth it for the benefit they provide.

I agree with you though, the car feels more planted on the street with more eagerness on turn-in with a good alignment.

The drawbacks being mainly excess tire wear and, to a lesser degree, excess wear on suspension components? I'd be wiling to live with that for a bit better 'feel' and 'turn in' I was thinking once or twice a year for the track...

[CPWINCH]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

OP mentioned tracking one or twice without a timeframe reference, so I assumed it was over the course of ownership. For that little track time, I don't believe the drawbacks of camber plates are worth it for the benefit they provide.

I agree with you though, the car feels more planted on the street with more eagerness on turn-in with a good alignment.

True that. After I made that post my tire blew out because of excessive inner tire wear haha. So there are drawbacks to camber on a street car.

[Ilikemike]

Originally Posted by CPWINCH

True that. After I made that post my tire blew out because of excessive inner tire wear haha. So there are drawbacks to camber on a street car.

Good to know, thanks!
Just thinking -3 degrees does not sound like much and i've heard -2 also quoted but I have no visual on what that looks like? I think Aaron mentioned the -2 but needing 10 or 12mm spacers, so if he has a photo, greatly appreciated! CANAUT, what do you run?

[CPWINCH]

Originally Posted by Ilikemike

Good to know, thanks!
Just thinking -3 degrees does not sound like much and i've heard -2 also quoted but I have no visual on what that looks like? I think Aaron mentioned the -2 but needing 10 or 12mm spacers, so if he has a photo, greatly appreciated! CANAUT, what do you run?

This is a little over 3 degrees with a 20mm spacer

[Ilikemike]

Originally Posted by CPWINCH

This is a little over 3 degrees with a 20mm spacer

That's great, thanks! Looks good!
Not as extreme looking as I expected, guess the 20 mm spacers make the difference.

[Ilikemike]

Originally Posted by OhioRiderAaron

ZCP owner here. I'm running OEM adaptive suspension with TCKline camber plates. Steering feel is improved, and understeer is reduced even more. I also coded in the GTS steering which combined with the camber plates gives pretty decent feel upfront. I've been daily driving this setup all spring and summer without issue. I would suggest 5-10mm spacers for the front though, as the extra camber tucks the front wheels under the fenders quite a bit. Any other questions give me a shout! Good luck

Aaron

Thanks Aaron, just wondering if you have picture of the front showing the spacer and offset angle, if it was different than -3?

[OhioRiderAaron]

Originally Posted by Ilikemike

Thanks Aaron, just wondering if you have picture of the front showing the spacer and offset angle, if it was different than -3?

sure, ill try and get a few pics for ya

[OhioRiderAaron]

Sorry for the delay. Not great pictures here, but it should at least give you an idea of what to expect with camber plates (-2.5deg~).