Best Ceramic Coating Sealant for marring and longevity?

[Detailers Domain]

there are a lot of coatings out there, just do your research on the product and the installer. at the end of the day if you trust your installer they should provide you with great results and a great product. what we tell everyone is it's the maintenance after the work is done. make sure you wash it yourself, use 2 buckets, blow dry the car down, and use some good products. Do Not take it to your local car wash or drive thru. I rather you wait till you can go back to the installer or diy when you have time.

[Hobbination]

Tossing in my .02 for you DIY guys. Took delivery of an 18 M4 ZCP, refused dealer prep (must do) auto scrubbed, two bucket washed and sealed and waxed w Menzerna. Fast forward two weeks I finally discovered Ceramic Coatings. Did all the online homework, I own EVERYTHING a detailer owns essentially and figured wth, I'll give coating my new car a shot. Sucks I just sealed and waxed it but whatever. The following is the steps I took, products I used and price I spent.

Pre suds and two bucket washed and dried Adams shampoo
Mothers Autozone clay, actual clay not my auto scrub. $25
Menzerna finishing polish 3800 w Griots finishing pad $50 new car minimal imperfections remove wax etc
Two bucket wash
Dried w Great White and a 10/90 mix of IPA and distilled water. 10% being the alcohol $5
Liquid Armour ceramic coating kit $135 https://www.liquidarmour.co this took me about 10-12 hours to do the entire car, I did two coats over two days, needs 24 to sit and cure then you can reapply and sit another 24. Then wait a week to wash etc
Adams wheel coating 9h kit $140. Same deal as the liquid armour, needs a day to bake in. This took 5-6 hours on ZCP wheels. Insanely impressed w the liquid armour, car washes are a joke, I can spray off 95% of dirt now w simple hose pressure. If you have the time and don't have the wallet, and a safe clean and dry garage, do this yourself. As they say, wax is dead... after my first two washes I fully concur. Did my brakes and jams too FYI oh and glass, it's like rain X on speed. Ceramic Coatings are the future if you're a detail nut.

[LAMF]

There are no Ceramic Coatings that will stop rock chips, period (Xpel will assist with that) and no coating will resist swirls and marring with improper maintenance. Coatings are superior to wax in my opinion being they last way longer and look amazing.. Don't be fooled by the hardness claims. I will tell you that they are well worth the price, especially on your rims.. Just make sure that the installer does the proper paint prep before application which is the most important part.

[ddas]

Originally Posted by brianeck

I got Modesta done at Detailer's Domain about 1 1/2 years ago. I have almost no visible swirl marks and I'm amazed at how well it has held up. I would almost consider getting a black car again.

From what I've heard the cost of Modesta has gone up considerably, and its now like $2,500 to do the whole car. At that rate you could do Cquartz twice over 6 years likely for the same total benefit.

I definitely don't buy into the "if the dealers do it I'm okay with it, otherwise it can't be good" camp, as the dealers literally wheel and deal you right down to the minute you drive off the lot. My dealership charges like $1,100 for a 3M Clear Bra package, and in all seriousness you could get more than half your car Xpelled for that price. The ONLY package I buy from the dealer at this point is wheel/tire insurance and that has saved my ass many times.

The vast majority of Modesta installers offer BC-08 application starting near $1,000(plus prep) and BC-04 or BC-05 around $1500(plus prep). $2500 is not a common price for the application of anything but the PD Private Label which some charge $3,000+ for(very unique circumstances merit that coating).

Paint correction of course can affect the cost of the project. I have had $8,000 paint correction projects....so if I were to do a coating over that(which I would not because that would be a concours++ paint correction over a classic ride in serious need of major work) one could try to argue that Modesta is $9,000+, which it is not. Maybe that $2,500 was prep plus coating?

(I would take 1 application of BC-04 over 2 applications of cquartz anything regardless of the math anyways :P )

[Bruce_SC]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

At these prices, why not just wrap the entire car in clear 3m or similar?

Seriously, if all you are getting is a super thin physical barrier, why not simply put a thicker physical barrier over the entire car? AFAIK, doesn't need to be re-done frequently nor require maintenance every 45 days, etc.

In actuality, super thin would describe a wax or sealant. The coating is measurably thicker. To your initial comment about film, a full body clear bra install would be 5,000-7,500 for an M3......And you still need to protect the clear bra to get the longevity out of it.
None of these protections are a set it and forget it type product. You have to maintain them for the longevity.
I also dont agree with the warranties either.

Bruce

[Bruce_SC]

Originally Posted by Seattle M3

Ceramic Pro is by far the best. There is a reason it is the only one that has to be installed by professionals! It actually is baked onto the car with heat lamps.

Not true, there are numerous coatings that can only be installed by professionals.
Modesta - No Consumer Coating
CQuartz Finest - Only professional use
Nanolex - Professional only
Opti-Coat Pro - Professional Only
IGL Kenzo - Professional Only
GTechniq Crystal Serum - Professional Only

Need more?

Bruce

[Bruce_SC]

Originally Posted by ddas

The vast majority of Modesta installers offer BC-08 application starting near $1,000(plus prep) and BC-04 or BC-05 around $1500(plus prep). $2500 is not a common price for the application of anything but the PD Private Label which some charge $3,000+ for(very unique circumstances merit that coating).

Paint correction of course can affect the cost of the project. I have had $8,000 paint correction projects....so if I were to do a coating over that(which I would not because that would be a concours++ paint correction over a classic ride in serious need of major work) one could try to argue that Modesta is $9,000+, which it is not. Maybe that $2,500 was prep plus coating?

(I would take 1 application of BC-04 over 2 applications of cquartz anything regardless of the math anyways :P )

Great post!!!

Bruce

[TxHornX3M40iGuy]

Have any of you had any experience with, or know anyone who has, Feynlab coatings? Apparently they have a self healing property to them like many of the films do. Wondering if you know, in comparison to the others, if it's good or not. I'm having the Sun-Tek Ultra film put on the front bumper/fenders/full hood/mirrors, then having a ceramic placed over the entire thing. Most installers have not mentioned anything about only certain types of ceramics being ok to go on top of film (something about them bonding with the film and changing it etc?) so he was wanting to do one type of ceramic over the film and one for the rest of the car not covered by the film. Just wondering what others have experience with.

[Eric S]

Feynlab self heal plus correction prior is going to be about 5/6 of the cost of a full body ppf job....I'd go PPF every single time

Ceramic pro doesn't have any checks and balance as to who can install...if you own a company, then you can be a installer. Its sad really. Its all about numbers and how many bottles they can push. The product doesn't live up to the claims made over the years, and there are countless installers trying to get Modesta instead of CP. It just doesn't make sense to offer a LIFETIME warranty on something that there is ZERO chance of lasting a lifetime...don't but into the fluff/shady marketing. LIGHT is a decent topper coating, sport is a good spray coating topper, but stacking 5 layers of 9h, one light, and sport will still not get you LIFETIME protection.

Full body clear bra will be your best protection for the whole car vs a coating, but its also the most expensive, especially if doing a custom install. A kit install (fine for95% of people) is about 10% less as its a faster install.

But to directly answer your question, Modesta BC04 on the paint and BC06 on the wheels will give you the best protection for the longest time. Super simple maintenance along the way as well, without any bogus warranty claims.

[818M3]

Coatings are specifically designed to greatly improve hydrophobic characteristics when washing cars and to create a beading/sheeting effect for ease of wash. They are not intended to protect the paint from rock chips, swirl marks, marring, etc. I would recommend a PPF treatment if your looking for paint protection.

[Nadeemp8]

Originally Posted by TxHornX3M40iGuy

Have any of you had any experience with, or know anyone who has, Feynlab coatings? Apparently they have a self healing property to them like many of the films do. Wondering if you know, in comparison to the others, if it's good or not. I'm having the Sun-Tek Ultra film put on the front bumper/fenders/full hood/mirrors, then having a ceramic placed over the entire thing. Most installers have not mentioned anything about only certain types of ceramics being ok to go on top of film (something about them bonding with the film and changing it etc?) so he was wanting to do one type of ceramic over the film and one for the rest of the car not covered by the film. Just wondering what others have experience with.

I'm looking into the same thing, and am pulling the trigger on the Feynlabs Light coating here in about a month. I know there's 2 folks in Austin that do the coating, have talked to both and checked out both shops. If you want to PM me I can share more details with you!

[Nadeemp8]

Originally Posted by Eric S

Feynlab self heal plus correction prior is going to be about 5/6 of the cost of a full body ppf job....I'd go PPF every single time

Ceramic pro doesn't have any checks and balance as to who can install...if you own a company, then you can be a installer. Its sad really. Its all about numbers and how many bottles they can push. The product doesn't live up to the claims made over the years, and there are countless installers trying to get Modesta instead of CP. It just doesn't make sense to offer a LIFETIME warranty on something that there is ZERO chance of lasting a lifetime...don't but into the fluff/shady marketing. LIGHT is a decent topper coating, sport is a good spray coating topper, but stacking 5 layers of 9h, one light, and sport will still not get you LIFETIME protection.

Full body clear bra will be your best protection for the whole car vs a coating, but its also the most expensive, especially if doing a custom install. A kit install (fine for95% of people) is about 10% less as its a faster install.

But to directly answer your question, Modesta BC04 on the paint and BC06 on the wheels will give you the best protection for the longest time. Super simple maintenance along the way as well, without any bogus warranty claims.

Actually the Feynlabs coating is significantly cheaper than getting a quality PPF application done on the entire vehicle. We're talking $1100 or so to coat the entire car in Lite vs getting the entire car wrapped at a cost of 5-7k, not inclusive of paint correction that needs to be done prior on both applications.

[Eric S]

If you talk about Feynlab self heal light, then I was told around 1500, plus correction at 1200-1800 depending on condition.

Self heal is supposedly around 3k for the install, plus paint correction, which puts it at 4500ish.

so for an extra 1000, you can get your whole car covered in PPF, which is no doubt better protection. A single step correction is really all that is necessary, however if you want more and better gloss through the film, multiple steps are necessary, which in turn adds to the price of the install.

That's info from the feynlab rep regarding pricing from Modern image in San Diego

[MTG_Snake]

I have a quote for Feynlab self healing lite coating on body for $1200 and $400 for wheels, calipers and rotors.

[shiv.nandak]

Originally Posted by MTG_Snake

I have a quote for Feynlab self healing lite coating on body for $1200 and $400 for wheels, calipers and rotors.

rotors?

[MTG_Snake]

Originally Posted by shiv.nandak

rotors?

Hahahahaa... I meant just caliper covers lol

[JamesGames]

I'm probably in the camp that thinks this is too rich for my blood. I've never had a car paint oxidize in the 10-15 years I've had a car in my possession. Black / white / dark gray cars only here, and even the black car didn't fade.

2 bucket method, many microfiber cloths, clay bar / dawn soap / car soap / spray wax and a spray detailer. Car looks glossy as hell, I have no swirls on my 3 year old M4 yet, luckily. If I get swirls or clear scratches from debris, a light polish after clay will take care of it. I cringe at people that continuously polish their cars all the time; that clear coat isn't infinitely thick....


Flame suit on

[Darth One]

I had this question some time ago and quickly decided that it's impossible to answer definitively, since even the pros will have their preferences and biases.

The best I can tell you is to 'buy the installer' and go with what they recommend, within your budget

[Eric S]

Originally Posted by JamesGames

I'm probably in the camp that thinks this is too rich for my blood. I've never had a car paint oxidize in the 10-15 years I've had a car in my possession. Black / white / dark gray cars only here, and even the black car didn't fade.

2 bucket method, many microfiber cloths, clay bar / dawn soap / car soap / spray wax and a spray detailer. Car looks glossy as hell, I have no swirls on my 3 year old M4 yet, luckily. If I get swirls or clear scratches from debris, a light polish after clay will take care of it. I cringe at people that continuously polish their cars all the time; that clear coat isn't infinitely thick....


Flame suit on

I respect what you are saying, but I find that a bit hard to believe...I would love to see your car, hear your process and figure out what you are doing to have a 3 year old car without any swirl marks...

Polishing once a year or twice a year is NOT going to ruin the clear to the point of clearcoat failure or remove too much material. Average clearcoat is 30 to 40microns thick. A minor polish removes about .25 to 1 micron of material. Compounding removes 1 to 3 microns, while aggressive compounding and or wetsanding will remove more (special circumstances, not every car). SO the reality is, you can polish your car twice a year for 10 years and be fine with the paint on your car.

[JamesGames]

Originally Posted by Eric S

I respect what you are saying, but I find that a bit hard to believe...I would love to see your car, hear your process and figure out what you are doing to have a 3 year old car without any swirl marks...

Polishing once a year or twice a year is NOT going to ruin the clear to the point of clearcoat failure or remove too much material. Average clearcoat is 30 to 40microns thick. A minor polish removes about .25 to 1 micron of material. Compounding removes 1 to 3 microns, while aggressive compounding and or wetsanding will remove more (special circumstances, not every car). SO the reality is, you can polish your car twice a year for 10 years and be fine with the paint on your car.

Light polishes as needed like I stated and a lot of garaging and no rain. Don't get me wrong my cars aren't your level of gloss. There's levels to this, I understand that. Maybe you know what you're doing, but I've seen many polished cars with raised points on the paint like corners with clear missing. That's an extreme example though.. I just personally don't think the costs are worth it to me for ceramic coat. Wasn't bashing , clearly said too rich for my blood.

[TTBear]

Originally Posted by Seattle M3

Ceramic Pro is by far the best. There is a reason it is the only one that has to be installed by professionals! It actually is baked onto the car with heat lamps.

Oh boy. This is misinformation at its finest. The "heat lamps" are nothing but infrared lamps, that speed up the curing process. That's all. The end result is the same, whether you use the lamps or not - the lamps simply speed the process.

This is a copy and paste from a previous post of mine from the M2 forum:

Ceramic can be VERY cost-friendly. It never fails to amaze me why anyone would spend THOUSANDS on Ceramic Pro. Sure, I can see why one wouldn't have the time or inclination to spend the time learning how to do the polishing and decontamination required prior to a ceramic coating, but application of a ceramic coating is easier than most waxes or sealants.

I'm sure that the Ceramic Pro vendors will argue that their product lasts for years (and even offer a lifetime warranty - as long as you do the annual "top-up" maintenance treatment), but regardless of what you use, you're going to have to repolish in a couple or few years no matter how great your washing/paint care abilities are. As such, why wouldn't you just apply a ceramic coating yourself, every two years? They cost less than $100. Paying up to $2000 for Ceramic Pro is a joke. The paint will require redoing in a couple of years regardless of what you apply.

If you have a PPF applied, put a coat of CQuartz UK 3.0 on it, wait an hour, and reapply another layer. Maintain it well with a ceramic topper like Reload. For two to three years, your car will look as good, and be just as well protected as the car with Ceramic Pro on it.

Sorry - end of rant. This is a big pet peeve of mine lol

____________________________________________


For MUCH less the cost of a single application of Ceramic Pro, you can purchase a Porter Cable random orbital polisher, pads, polishing compounds, and microfibre cloths, as well as ceramic coating, to keep your car perfect, for YEARS. It's not hard - hey, if I can do it, a mentally challenged garden slug would stand a fair to middling chance of success

Sure - if you don't have the time or inclination, don't bother, and spend thousands for a ceramic coating that really will only last you a couple years. I can easily do the whole process on a mildly marred car in a day, and the car will be great for a couple or three years, with proper maintenance (which is as much as you're going to get out of a Ceramic Pro treatment, anyways).

Ceramic coatings do not make your paint invincible - far, far from. They will scratch and mar just like clear - think of the ceramic coating as a sacrificial layer, which WILL become damaged.

I have tried many, many types of ceramic coatings. My favourite currently is CQuartz UK 3.0. Easily applied, and lasts very well. Kamikaze coatings are also great, but I have difficulty sourcing them here in Canada.

Just my two cents!

Here are a couple links to a couple cars that I've done - mine, and a friend's. Bit of self-aggrandizement, here, but Autiopia featured the Superleggera on their front page and Facebook page! I was thrilled!

https://www.autopia.org/forums/click...tml?highlight=

https://www.autopia.org/forums/click...tml?highlight=

To the OP - good luck in your research! If you aren't inclined to do it yourself, then just keep in mind that if you choose to spend thousands on paint prep, followed by a professional ceramic coat, then your maintenance of the paint surface afterwards is the most important thing you can do to make it last.

[TTBear]

Originally Posted by Eric S

Feynlab self heal plus correction prior is going to be about 5/6 of the cost of a full body ppf job....I'd go PPF every single time

Ceramic pro doesn't have any checks and balance as to who can install...if you own a company, then you can be a installer. Its sad really. Its all about numbers and how many bottles they can push. The product doesn't live up to the claims made over the years, and there are countless installers trying to get Modesta instead of CP. It just doesn't make sense to offer a LIFETIME warranty on something that there is ZERO chance of lasting a lifetime...don't but into the fluff/shady marketing. LIGHT is a decent topper coating, sport is a good spray coating topper, but stacking 5 layers of 9h, one light, and sport will still not get you LIFETIME protection.

Full body clear bra will be your best protection for the whole car vs a coating, but its also the most expensive, especially if doing a custom install. A kit install (fine for95% of people) is about 10% less as its a faster install.

But to directly answer your question, Modesta BC04 on the paint and BC06 on the wheels will give you the best protection for the longest time. Super simple maintenance along the way as well, without any bogus warranty claims.

Originally Posted by Eric S

I respect what you are saying, but I find that a bit hard to believe...I would love to see your car, hear your process and figure out what you are doing to have a 3 year old car without any swirl marks...

Polishing once a year or twice a year is NOT going to ruin the clear to the point of clearcoat failure or remove too much material. Average clearcoat is 30 to 40microns thick. A minor polish removes about .25 to 1 micron of material. Compounding removes 1 to 3 microns, while aggressive compounding and or wetsanding will remove more (special circumstances, not every car). SO the reality is, you can polish your car twice a year for 10 years and be fine with the paint on your car.

Heed this poster's words. He knows what he's talking about lol