Warm Up - then Sport/Sport+ mode?

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

Allow me to help you fill in your brain volume between proposition A and proposition Z, which you seemed to have jumped to without thinking about what may be in between.

Thanks Joe, much obliged.
There is a shortage of condescension of the internet. Your contribution to redress this was duly noted.
Now lets return to the matter at hand ...

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

[...]When the engine is very cold, you want to minimize two things within reason: engine speed & engine load.

Sport and Sport+ modes, especially in DCT but also in manual trans, increase engine load for a given gas pedal position by increasing the throttle percentage at the same position as compared to efficient. They also increase boost pressure at that level, which increases load further. This load also builds engine RPMs faster, which makes it more likely you'll dip into an area where the oil will fail and wear will occur.
...
Now, all that being said, I have zero actual insight into what the load and RPM limits are (combined) at 0 degrees, 10 degrees, 40 degrees, 80 degree oil temps etc.

So I play it safe when I'm thinking of my cars longevity: I use the least loading mode (efficient) and keep my RPMs down until I KNOW the engine oil is near operating temp and the engine can handle just about any load I throw at it.

This is my reasoning and rationale. If you feel differently, please explain and at least contemplate #1 and #2 above as direction we receive from BMW and other manufacturers.

Joe, I fully agree with your premise that you need to allow oil to warm up before flogging the engine, tranny, and diff. Anyargument to the contrary has never been part of this conversation.

Where we are apart is in the conclusion that driving in "Efficient" mode is the prescription for proper drivetrain warmup, and the only safe way to achieve it.

There are at least two simple reasons for my position and our continued discussion on this subject:
1). You implicitly assume that our professionally calibrated collective right foot always applies the same pressure to the gas pedal, every time, regardless of the engine mode, personal mood, and the music playing on the radio. If that were to be the case, more docile throttle mapping mode would help keep engine loads down.
2). If BMW believed that Efficient mode was the only way to warm up the car, it would have mentioned so in the (rarely read) manual. I just checked, and found no such mention. Furthermore, BMW could have applied either different throttle mapping for cold engine driving (there are plenty of sensors to do that), or lowered cold engine red-line for Sport/Sport+ modes and kept them higher for Efficient mode.

Since neither one of the above observations seams to hold true, I rely on our joint common sense to allow the car's oils to warm up in all of the above three modes properly, before full load is put on the drivetrain.

The fact that you care and take active precautions to minimize cold start wear on your drivetrain is admirable. Controlling one's right foot until oil warms up is indeed the right way to accomplish that goal.
The assumption that that the only way to achieve that is via Efficient mode is what I question.

But in the end, to each his own.
We are here to enjoy our cars in all modes.

a

P.S.: I presently intend to keep my M3 though at least 100+K miles, or until lifestyle changes necessitate car fleet review, or some other sedan catches my fancy. Whichever comes first.

[JoeFromPA]

Afadeev,

I just re-read your original posting. My apologies for replying with condescencion, it was meant in snarky response to what I perceived from you....but in re-reading, your original reply was only 20% as snarky as I had initially thought So, sincerely, my apologies for that initial remark as it did come across more harshly then intended or warranted.

You stated that I'm indicating efficient mode is the only safe way to achieve warm-up. Please note I am NOT indicating it is the only safe way, but:

1. I believe Sport Plus is not safe to warm up an ice cold engine on...based upon BMW's own statements that,

"In the SPORT and SPORT PLUS modes, the waste gates remain closed under partial load and the mass flow is routed through the turbines, to ensure that the turbo chargers are already rotating at a higher base speed even in standby. Moreover, certain special engine control functions are brought into play that accelerate activation of the turbo chargers. This means that the car responds more closely to the accelerator in SPORT and SPORT PLUS modes.

Another important point is that we normally have to take the drive train into consideration when it comes to building up torque. As a rule, the engine is able to build up torque at a speed that is much faster than that with which the drive train can cope. You can imagine that the drive train then begins to behave like a torsion spring, which is first stretched out and then vibrates, resulting in juddering. To prevent such judders, it is necessary to dampen the engine's build up of momentum to allow a harmonic progression of its response characteristics...In SPORT PLUS, all filter functions are deactivated and the engine responds directly to movements of the accelerator pedal "

And obviously the throttle mapping in each is much more aggressive, with Sport Plus being borderline violent.

2. I believe Sport is perfectly fine and is really the "default" throttle position for a car like this by any historical measure. It's just more tempting/easier to ring it out in sport and takes more effort to restrain yourself Efficient mode is so lazy that it's apiece of cake loafing around for 5 minutes or so.


....

You are right about BMW not mentioning these things in the manual. I'm surprised by that, at least a recommendation that efficient be used while warming up or similar. Maybe the true engine temp dynamics indicate what I'm saying doesn't matter. Or maybe they don't care because it doesn't make a difference within the warranty period. Or maybe it was just an oversight.

I'm not sure, I'm just trying to share what I consider to be best practice. Much like Mike Miller's "Old school maintenance" program that was really designed during an era of dirtier running cars using inferior lubricants compared to today, it's still a good practice to be preventative.

[ss134]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

Ok, let me back up a second. How many of you plan on owning this vehicle past, say, 90k miles?

Definately not - I just don't love it enough. Something will come our in the next few years that I will trade the F80 in for I'm sure. I really like the car a lot but it's not a keeper for me.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

I'm not sure, I'm just trying to share what I consider to be best practice. Much like Mike Miller's "Old school maintenance" program that was really designed during an era of dirtier running cars using inferior lubricants compared to today, it's still a good practice to be preventative.

No worries, we are good.
We are both basically striving towards the same outcome: proper engine warmup before flogging it, for maximum longevity. Maybe your approach is wiser, may it's a placebo. Either way, as long as one warms the engine up with care, it should last longer.

Similarly, following "old school maintenance" should result in a long-term car ownership with fewer surprises. I believe that and follow it as well. The only thing I haven't found a solution for is the DI carbon build up on intake valves.

a

[shortseller]

Originally Posted by afadeev

No worries, we are good.
We are both basically striving towards the same outcome: proper engine warmup before flogging it, for maximum longevity. Maybe your approach is wiser, may it's a placebo. Either way, as long as one warms the engine up with care, it should last longer.

Similarly, following "old school maintenance" should result in a long-term car ownership with fewer surprises. I believe that and follow it as well. The only thing I haven't found a solution for is the DI carbon build up on intake valves.

a

The only thing you can do is a walnut blast every 40 to 50k miles, should keep thing running smoothly.

[FSHNGRY]

Originally Posted by RickMonet

I find I tend to leave the car in Efficient mode until the engine warms up, then I switch to either Sport or Sport Plus.

Is there good reason to follow this policy?

Any harm come by warming the car using Sport or Sport Plus mode?

Nothing in the manual besides not driving the car hard under cold engine temps. I alwasy put my car in M1 mode which is sport/sport/sport plus on all settings and take it easy up until temps warm up. I just like the feel of the car with those settings way better.

[DaBean]

Sport + is way too sensitive. Given that it has no power / sound advantage over Sport, why use it? On track you certainly want the finer control that comes with Sport throttle mapping.

[gearboxtrouble]

My M4 is my daily commuter car so I actually spend a lot of time in my M1 mode (Efficient, Comfort, Comfort). I have a 12 mile, 90% highway commute so there's no real point going with anything else for that. It is quiet, smooth and comfortable and makes the M4 a perfectly capable cruiser. As soon as I get off the highway I put the throttle in Sport because I find the noise and responsiveness better. I particularly enjoy the pops and crackles in the parking garage at work. My M2 button is mapped to Sport/Sport/Sport and that's what I use when I find myself some nice roads I want to carve up or on track. I find the Sport+ settings useless. The throttle is basically an on/off switch, the dampers become unusable unless you live in Switzerland and the steering is only good if you're trying to work out. Its even worse for track use because you can't control the rear end with the throttle, the steering feels terrible and the car feels too nervous over bumps.

[SherM4n]

Originally Posted by DaBean

Sport + is way too sensitive. Given that it has no power / sound advantage over Sport, why use it? On track you certainly want the finer control that comes with Sport throttle mapping.

It's the only mode that turns off auto rev matching.

[jwt2440]

Buddy, the car has a 4 year 50k warranty so who gives a flying f*#% about warming up the car. Has anyone in this forum heard or seen anyone break their M car because they pushed it while it was cold or during the break in period????? It's like being in college again dating a cheerleader who's a dime and thinking to yourself "maybe we shouldn't have sex for the first three months of dating until we get to know each other." Boringggggggggg

Originally Posted by RickMonet

I find I tend to leave the car in Efficient mode until the engine warms up, then I switch to either Sport or Sport Plus.

Is there good reason to follow this policy?

Any harm come by warming the car using Sport or Sport Plus mode?

[nikolaos33]

my M1 sport/comfort/comfort

[Warranty P]

Originally Posted by BigIslandM4

I always start off in Sport + on everything.

Same here except I leave suspension in Comfort.

[BEMR]

Originally Posted by M4UK

Same here. Let it warm up first. I think those who bought on the "never, never" (lease) don't care because it's never going to really be their car.

Misconceptions of a lease sorry to read this described this way so often in a condescending manner. The bank owns your car unless you either keep it long enough to make all the payments, or lease.. A payoff like with a purchase is available anytime. A lease is slightly more risky to a bank, credit must be of a higher level when leasing. Proof, first time car buyers almost impossible without cosigner.

[castilla]

While throttle is at sport+ mode it feels like pressing the accelerator pedal % 70 and % 100 , both of them feels same.It goods for straight line acceleration but is uncontrollable while tracking,drifting etc..Sport mode is best

[Ian1973]

Anyone who owned an E46 or E9x M3 will not agree that the sport+ is an aggressive throttle mapping. The prior cars were ridiculously touchy to the point I never used it.

But this car I can't tell that much different between the 3, yes I feel something but not enough to think I can't control myself from harming the engine when it's cold. I read the above and realize what BMW but they also have to protect themselves from the morons out there that. But just traveling at 2,300 rpms I don't see why this would be damaging to anything regardless of the throttle map.

On the bright side, this car gets through it's warm up way faster than the S54 and S65.

[shortseller]

Originally Posted by nikolaos33

my M1 sport/comfort/comfort

I find factory M1 setting perfect for track, factory M2 for street fun, BMW got these right in my opinion. Counterintuitive as it may look at first.

^Love the rev match help in sport, much better than I could ever do with my 11.5s.

[AlphaOmega4]

I leave in Efficient ( default setting ) until I pull out of my drive way from there I go with my M2 program.

Sport / Comfort / Sport -- my drive to work is only about 5 min.. not enough time to really get on it.. but when I leave for lunch I usually just increase throttle response and have at it a little.

But I see no reason to cruise around in efficient for warm up.

only other time I'm in efficient is when I'm on a business call.

[Damien8503]

Originally Posted by BEMR

Misconceptions of a lease sorry to read this described this way so often in a condescending manner. The bank owns your car unless you either keep it long enough to make all the payments, or pay cash. A payoff like with a purchase is available anytime. A lease is slightly more risky to a bank, credit must be of a higher level when leasing. Proof, first time car buyers almost impossible without cosigner.

Funny how the ignorant one are the first to try and put someone down.